02-28-2004, 06:12 PM
Gentlemen,
Jesus did not offer any puns from the cross; I can't understand such flippancy from men who profess faith , reverence and love for
the Son of God, or even from someone who may not, but believes Jesus suffered an exruciating death.
Puns from the cross ? You guys have been reading too much and familiarity breeds contempt. Please go see "The Passion of the Christ", if you haven't already. It conveys something that words alone never could.
As far as our Lord's cry from the cross, Shabaq occurs 224 times in the Peshitta NT. 78 (34%)of those are translated via the Greek as "leave,forsake"; 55 (24%)are "let,allow"; 83 (37%) are "forgive,remit".
I can find one place in the NT where the word can mean "spare"(Romans 11:4). That is 0.5 % of NT occurrences.
I don't believe, however that mere statistics can decide this matter.
The Greek readings unanimously support the root "kataleipo" , which means "leave,forsake".
The Hebrew "ezeb" in Psalms 22:1 means, "forsake,leave, forgive".
The LXX has the same Greek word as The Greek NT. The Peshitta OT has the same reading as The Peshitta NT has in Mat. 27 and Mark 14.
It would seem that the objection to "forsaken" is primarily theological, not linguistic or grammatical. I have a problem trusting someone's translation when personal theology is a determining factor in determining a word's meaning, especially when the result is less than one percent of total word usage.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Nxrwb[/font]
Dave B
Jesus did not offer any puns from the cross; I can't understand such flippancy from men who profess faith , reverence and love for
the Son of God, or even from someone who may not, but believes Jesus suffered an exruciating death.
Puns from the cross ? You guys have been reading too much and familiarity breeds contempt. Please go see "The Passion of the Christ", if you haven't already. It conveys something that words alone never could.
As far as our Lord's cry from the cross, Shabaq occurs 224 times in the Peshitta NT. 78 (34%)of those are translated via the Greek as "leave,forsake"; 55 (24%)are "let,allow"; 83 (37%) are "forgive,remit".
I can find one place in the NT where the word can mean "spare"(Romans 11:4). That is 0.5 % of NT occurrences.
I don't believe, however that mere statistics can decide this matter.
The Greek readings unanimously support the root "kataleipo" , which means "leave,forsake".
The Hebrew "ezeb" in Psalms 22:1 means, "forsake,leave, forgive".
The LXX has the same Greek word as The Greek NT. The Peshitta OT has the same reading as The Peshitta NT has in Mat. 27 and Mark 14.
It would seem that the objection to "forsaken" is primarily theological, not linguistic or grammatical. I have a problem trusting someone's translation when personal theology is a determining factor in determining a word's meaning, especially when the result is less than one percent of total word usage.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Nxrwb[/font]
Dave B