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Luke 24:1
Here are two more examples:

Lexicon Syriacum (aramaic-latin) (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""> ... 00brocuoft</a><!-- m -->)

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hebdomas = week

Dictionarium Syriaco-latinum (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""> ... 00brunuoft</a><!-- m -->)

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prima dies hebdomadae = firs day of the week

to moderators and admin : I just have uploaded this images to the forum using the "Upload attachment" tool and then the "Place inline" button, I hope this is ok.
Shlama Akhi Phil:
That's great. Thank you for the input.

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Shlama Akhi Claud,

I'm not wasting my time anymore, I'm done with you. I didn't bother reading your post, nor do I intend to read it. You are a complete and utter waste of time. Go to an Aramaic class you can find anywhere you can find it and learn something about Aramaic before you post here again with the tone that you did. Next post like this, an utter waste of everyone's time, will result in a termination of your posting privileges.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]

Brother Roth says above: "So that is 7 for 7" being that the last 7 Aramaic to English translators of the Peshitta for the last 200 years or so translates it this way....

But, Brother Claud must be right in his interpretation of these things based upon his knowledge of the Aramaic...?

Shlama Akhi Phil,

Thank you for posting the lexicon references that show that sabbath can mean week. It is interesting to note that the reference to week is always number 2, it is never incorporated as part of the original definition which suggests this is a second meaning, a meaning which has evolved over time. This is why I asked for a biblical reference, as I believe at the time of the gospels there was no such meaning attached, I could of course be wrong and I remain open to persuasion.

For whatever it is worth, here is a snippet from a pretty old Jewish text that uses khad-bshabta/bshabba for Sunday.

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Shlama Lars,

Thank you for your contribution.

If I am not mistaken the document you have uploaded "Midrasch Bereschith Rabba",is a midrash on Genesis , which dates from the the 6th century CE, whilst as you say it is " pretty old",it does not help us understand if at the time when the gospels were written ( 1st Century CE) the language you highlighted was in use. If anything, it may be useful in showing how the language has changed from the beginning the the 2nd century when Targum Onkelos was composed.

Shlama w???burkate

shlomo Claud,

Here's an extract from a manuscript that was written between 97AD and 106AD (From the legal archive of Babatha -- Jewish):
???????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ???? ???????? ?????? ????????

Translation => fifth in the week (Hamsha bshabh -- Thursday), an hour and a half from the third hour and thus ...

Side Example:
Here's an example of the number 14 and 17 written in Aramaic -- I let you draw your own conclusion
' <= This represents the letter 'ayn
'sar <= number 10 in the fem. form
(In Aramaic, in the lower numbers your start with a masc. and finish with a fem. number in a construction)

1st form => arba'ta'sar
2nd form => arbta'sar
Notice here the number 4 can be written as " arba' " or " arb "

1st form => shba'ta'sar
2nd form => shbAta'sar
Notice here the number 7 can be written as " shba' " or " shbA "

push bashlomo,
I'm new here so pardon me if this is a dumb question, but what has Luke 24:1 to do with a "Sunday" resurrection? Most of the things you are talking about are w-a-y over my head (though I'm enjoying the forum immensely!). It says the women arrived at the tomb the first day of the week but that says nothing about Y'Shua having arisen on that day. All other indications, as far as I can tell, are that He arose at the end of the Sabbath--exactly 3 days and 3 nights after He was buried--just as the Scriptures say. Am I missing something? (It was the discovery of this fact that brought me out of Sunday-keeping Christianity and into Messianic Judaism seven months ago.)


Hi Shuvah,

Can you show from the Scriptures how Y'shua was in the "heart of the earth" for a full 3-24 hour day time frame from the time He was buried, till the time He came out of the tomb? If so you can please send me a message if the Mods don't what your findings here.

Make sure to consider what year will work for the right time frame on the Hebrew Calendar. If you say that Y'shua rose at the end of Sabbath that it was dawning toward the first of the week i.e. Sunday, then that would be sundown of Saturday evening that He rose. You then must count back a full 72 hours when He was buried.

This would make the time of Y'shua's burial at about sundown the Wednesday prior.

Look up the right year on the Hebrew Calendar that works for this scenario and it must be during the Passover feast with Wednesday evening being the start of Passover and Thursday evening being the end of Passover.... then there would be a Thursday evening to Friday evening...being the 1st day of Unleavened Bread...then Friday evening to Saturday Evening would be the Weekly Sabbath and that would thus be the 2nd day of Unleavened Bread.... with Saturday evening to Sunday evening being the 3rd day of Unleavened Bread and thus being the Feast of First Fruits...When Y'shua was to rise upon.

If you can show these things using the accounts found in the Scriptures and so, that all the words line up with a 72 hour time frame, using the Hebrew Night/Day, and finding the right year where this would all pan out.... then I would be very grateful.

Proceed if you will.


claud Wrote:Shlama Akhi Phil,

Thank you for posting the lexicon references that show that sabbath can mean week. It is interesting to note that the reference to week is always number 2, it is never incorporated as part of the original definition which suggests this is a second meaning, a meaning which has evolved over time. This is why I asked for a biblical reference, as I believe at the time of the gospels there was no such meaning attached, I could of course be wrong and I remain open to persuasion.
I'm going to get back with you on this, because I think I can provide such a reference when I'm not hurrying to get ready for Shabbat. However, for the moment I would like to point out a few things:
If this was "at the beginning of the Sabbath" as you suggest, then why do some accounts say "before dawn" since the beginning of Shabbat would be in the evening? Why were the women going to the tomb on Shabbat? Wouldn't that be a violation of Shabbat?
Just one more thing. A reference from the TN"K will not actually apply in this case. It would be anachronistic to apply a useage from Ezra's time to usage in Yeshua's time. It would be even worse to apply something from longer ago like Daniel or Genesis to his time period. So to restrict this to asking for a Scriptural reference is not best. Let's rather look for a contemporary reference.
I guess my point was that just because the women came at dawn on the first day of the week, it does not necessarily follow that Y???Shua rose from the grave that day. Could He not have arisen at the end of the Sabbath, several hours before the women arrived? I believe He did. Christians have believed in a Sunday morning resurrection for hundreds of years and many use this verse as ???proof.??? My question is, what about this verse proves a Sunday morning resurrection? This question was asked at the beginning of the thread and being new to this forum, I didn???t realize when I replied regarding it that the discussion had long since passed that point, so I apologize for that.

I am a not ???scholar??? in any sense of the word, just your average person trying to arrive at the truth. I did a study on my own on Passion Week about seven months ago that ended up completely changing my world (60 years in Christianity). I used the four gospels to try to construct a timeline. I also used a calendar converter. The problem there is that I have to assume the calendar converter is correct. But, like I said, I???m not a scholar, so I just did the best I could. In any event, the timeline I arrived at indicated that Y???Shuah was crucified on the 14th day of the month and arose on the 17th day of the month. The 14th day, according to the calendar converter for that year (3790, or 30 A.D.) (which, as I recall, was determined according to the timeline of when Pilate was governor and some other considerations) was the 4th day of the week and He arose at the end of the 7th day of the week, or Shabbat. A late Sabbath resurrection is what caused me to leave Christianity for Messianic Judaism, especially after I did a little more research and discovered that Constantine was behind the change of the day of the week and all that history (which I???d never heard before). Long story short, once I arrived in Messianic Judaism, everything changed and I started re-learning and questioning everything. I naively stepped into controversies I never even knew existed (the first one being which Sabbath to use to calculate the Feast of First Fruits, and it only got worse from there!). The big messy one was whether or not the Name should be pronounced. When I started questioning that one, the rabbi of my congregation got very upset about it and wouldn???t allow any discussion within the congregation. Needless to say, I found another congregation.

But all of that aside, since then, I???ve now discovered that even the Sabbath may not be the day I think it is. I???ve learned that there???s another controversy there--some holding to a weekly Sabbath and some to a lunar Sabbath, and at this point, I have no idea which is correct???it???s all new to me! It occurred to me that I may have arrived at the right conclusion, but based upon faulty assumptions, so until I sort all of that out to my own satisfaction, I???m reluctant to say much of anything to anyone for fear of stepping on more toes.

Thirdwoe, I???d have to post or send you a whole notebook full of notes to show how I arrived at my conclusions, all of which may be incorrect anyway. I think I???m probably out of my league on this forum. I think I will just remain an observer and learn from people who know what they are talking about. BUT, thank you for asking. At the very least, your comments have encouraged me to work on that project again, and maybe try to lay it out in a format that could be shared with others, at least as food for thought. I just have so much to learn.


Shuvah...please ignore the lunar Sabbath nonsense. It's completely un-historical.


It is not clear from the words of the Gospel accounts exatly when Y'shua rose, but it seems to me that the earthquake and the stone rolling out of the way might have something to do with it....Find out about what time that happend and you may be pretty close...

As for the full 72 hour time frame, were you able to work that out with consideration of all the information from the Gospel accounts?

Dawid Wrote:Shuvah...please ignore the lunar Sabbath nonsense. It's completely un-historical.

Have you read Moadai Tishmoru (Rav. David Pollina)? I know everyone says forget about the Lunar Sabbath and when I first came across it, I did exactly that. What I had read about it to that point sounded pretty ridiculous to me too. But having nearly completed his book on the topic (200 pages), I can't dismiss it that easily. He makes a lot of sense and has Scripture to back up what he says. Perhaps you could point me to something that lays out an equally sound case from the opposite perspective? As I mentioned before, this is all very new to me, so it will take some time to sift through. I can't just dismiss something just because someone says don't go there. I'm sure you understand. My Christian friends would like to tell me I'm fallen from grace for keeping Torah.

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