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Gospel of John shows our Lord to be Mary's only child
Burning one Wrote:
Stephen Silver Wrote:
distazo Wrote:It is clear that Mary and Jawsef consumed their marriage and that eternal virginity has nothing to do with any Godly will or a prophesy which was for Maryam.

Shlama akhi,
while i have no issue at all with the thought that Maryam never had any other children (Messiah's "giving" her to Yuwkhanan at the cross makes sense this way), it seems to me that she at least had relations with Yawseph AFTER the birth of Yeshu'a.

i get this from Matt. 1:25.

is there a different way that the CoE approaches the term "knew" - KHAKMAH? can it be rightly understood without the sexual meaning? if so, how is that done?

i'm not against her remaining a virgin by any means, but i 'm just not seeing it explicitly stated as such by the NT, and the above passage makes me think otherwise very strongly. any clarification would be helpful, though!

Chayim b'Moshiach,

Shlama Akhi Jeremy:
The phrase of Matthew 1:25 can read two ways creating two different contexts. The word "until" is not always followed by the intended act. In this case it is sexual intercourse. The verse can use the event of the virgin birth as a point up until which Joseph had no sex with Maryam but without a "disclaimer", it is not at all certain that directly following the virgin birth that Miryam and Joseph consumated their marriage with the sex act. The belief of "perpetual virgin" in the case of Miryam is very compelling indeed.
If the verse read, "they had sex after Yeshua was born", it would leave no wriggle room, but that's not the reading. The "until" can actually not imply the sexual consumation, only that they did not have sex before Yeshua was born. Of this we have many corresponding textual affirmations. We have no textual verifications to support the other way in which "until" is used to imply that they had sex after Yeshua was born.
The important thing here is the verification of "two or three witnesses. It is not good hermeneutics to use only one verse to prove an event took place. Here we have one verse with a double meaning in which context is key. This verse must be read in light of all verses which speak of the virgin birth. This is my personal opinion after threading all of the verses together rather than isolating one verse, no matter how compelling it may appear.
Perhaps there is another instance of the use of "until" in another passage of the TaNaKh or the New Testament which we are not aware of. This requires a search, and searches take time. Nevertheless, I will try to find another example of the hermeneutic use of until, which demonstrates the clarity of my opinion.

Stephen Silver,
Dukhrana Biblical Research,
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Messages In This Thread
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-18-2011, 03:11 PM
Re: - by distazo - 04-18-2011, 08:17 PM
Re: Gospel of John shows our Lord to be Mary's only child - by Stephen Silver - 04-19-2011, 08:15 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-19-2011, 08:59 PM
Re: - by Burning one - 04-19-2011, 09:51 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-19-2011, 10:07 PM

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