10-23-2004, 07:49 PM
Shlama Akhi Addai,
We've got to highlight quotes here, otherwise it gets too confusing to know who said what:
So and so said:"
This kind of statement is patently absurd. How could anyone take this guy seriously ? Does he have an original copy of Peter's Greek handwriting or any original document
Peter wrote ? Does Mark use the same vocabulary as 1 Peter in Greek ?
Why does The Greek Matthew and Mark contain transliterated Aramaic phrases with a translation into Greek while the Aramaic texts have no example of transliterated Greek phrases translated into Aramaic ?
Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?Mt 27:46 (WH) peri de thn enathn wran ebohsen o ihsouv fwnh megalh legwn elwi elwi lema sabacyani tout estin yee mou yee mou ina ti me egkatelipev[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]
yntqb$ 0nml ly0 ly0 rm0w 0mr 0lqb 9w$y 09q Ny9$ 9$t yp0lw [/font]Mt 27:46 (PESHITTA)
Mt 27:46 (MUR) And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice and said: O God, O God; why hast thou forsaken me?
Mr 5:41 And taking the child by the hand, he saith unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, Arise.
Mr 5:41 (WH) kai krathsav thv ceirov tou paidiou legei auth taliya koum o estin meyermhneuomenon to korasion soi legw egeire
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]ymwq 0tyl+ hl rm0w 0tyl+d hdy0b dx0w [/font]Mr 5:41 (PESHITTA)
Mr 5:41 (MUR) And he took the maid???s hand, and said to her: Maiden, arise.
Mr 7:34 and looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
Mr 7:34 (WH) kai anableqav eiv ton ouranon estenaxen kai legei autw effaya o estin dianoicyhti
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]xtpt0 hl rm0w xntt0w 0ym$b rxw[/font] Mr 7:34 (PESHITTA)
Mr 7:34 (MUR) and looked towards heaven, and sighed, and said to him: Be opened.
Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mr 15:34 (WH) kai th enath wra ebohsen o ihsouv fwnh megalh elwi elwi lama sabacyani o estin meyermhneuomenon o yeov mou o yeov mou eiv ti egkatelipev me
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]yntqb$ 0nml yhl0 yhl0 hyty0d yntqb$ 0nml ly0 ly0 rm0w 0mr 0lqb 9w$y 09q Ny9$ 9$tbw[/font] Mr 15:34 (PESHITTA)
Mr 15:34 (MUR) And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, and said: Il, Il, lemono shebakthone; that is: My God, my God; why hast thou forsaken me?
And John's Gospel in Greek does the same:
Joh 1:38 And Jesus turned, and beheld them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? And they said unto him, Rabbi (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), where abideth thou?
Joh 1:38 (WH) strafeiv de o ihsouv kai yeasamenov autouv akolouyountav legei autoiv ti zhteite oi de eipan autw rabbi o legetai meyermhneuomenon didaskale pou meneiv
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]tn0 0wh 0ky0 Nbr hl Nyrm0 Nwtn0 Ny9b 0nm Nwhl rm0w hrtb Nyt0d Nwn0 0zxw 9w$y ynpt0w[/font] Joh 1:38 (PESHITTA)
Joh 1:38 (MUR) And Jesus turned, and saw them coming after him, and he said to them: What seek ye? They said to him: Our Rabbi, where stayest thou?
Joh 1:41 He findeth first his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah (which is, being interpreted, Christ).Joh 1:41 (WH) euriskei outov prwton ton adelfon ton idion simwna kai legei autw eurhkamen ton messian o estin meyermhneuomenon cristov
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0xy$ml yhynxk$0 hl rm0w yhwx0 Nw9m$l Mdqwl 0zx 0nh [/font]Joh 1:41 (PESHITTA)
Joh 1:41 (MUR) He first saw Simon his brother, and said to him: We have found the Messiah.
Joh 1:42 He brought him unto Jesus. Jesus looked upon him, and said, Thou art Simon the son of John: thou shalt be called Cephas (which is by interpretation, Peter).
Joh 1:42 (WH) hgagen auton prov ton ihsoun embleqav autw o ihsouv eipen su ei simwn o uiov iwannou su klhyhsh khfav o ermhneuetai petrov[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0p0k 0rqtt tn0 0nwyd-hrb Nw9m$ wh tn0 rm0w 9w$y hb rxw 9w$y twl hyty0w[/font] Joh 1:42 (PESHITTA)
Joh 1:42 (MUR) And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus looked upon him, and said Thou art Simon the son of Jona; thou shalt be called Cephas.
Joh 9:7 and said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam (which is by interpretation, Sent). He went away therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
Joh 9:7 (WH) kai eipen autw upage niqai eiv thn kolumbhyran tou silwam o ermhneuetai apestalmenov aphlyen oun kai eniqato kai hlyen blepwn
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0zx dk 0t0w gy$a lz0w 0xwly$d 0tydwm9mb gy$0 lz hl rm0w [/font]Joh 9:7 (PESHITTA)
Joh 9:7 (MUR) and said to him: Go, wash in the baptistery of Siloam. And he went, and washed, and came away seeing.
If our Lord and His disciples and most of Israel spoke Greek, we would expect the opposite to what we do find. We should find some Greek phrases transliterated and then translated into the Aramaic in the Aramaic versions.
We do not find this. Thus the internal Greek evidence supports an Aramaic original and the Aramaic versions do not support a Greek original.
I again refer you to my web site
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://dave.ultimasurf.com">http://dave.ultimasurf.com</a><!-- m -->
for the article on Greek - Aramaic in The Peshitta and also "The Greek word ermeneuo ..."
Tibotha w'burkhtha,
Dave
We've got to highlight quotes here, otherwise it gets too confusing to know who said what:
So and so said:"
Quote:It is obvious when one reads the Gospel of Mark that it is being dictated to the writer by Peter."
This kind of statement is patently absurd. How could anyone take this guy seriously ? Does he have an original copy of Peter's Greek handwriting or any original document
Peter wrote ? Does Mark use the same vocabulary as 1 Peter in Greek ?
Why does The Greek Matthew and Mark contain transliterated Aramaic phrases with a translation into Greek while the Aramaic texts have no example of transliterated Greek phrases translated into Aramaic ?
Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?Mt 27:46 (WH) peri de thn enathn wran ebohsen o ihsouv fwnh megalh legwn elwi elwi lema sabacyani tout estin yee mou yee mou ina ti me egkatelipev[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]
yntqb$ 0nml ly0 ly0 rm0w 0mr 0lqb 9w$y 09q Ny9$ 9$t yp0lw [/font]Mt 27:46 (PESHITTA)
Mt 27:46 (MUR) And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice and said: O God, O God; why hast thou forsaken me?
Mr 5:41 And taking the child by the hand, he saith unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, Arise.
Mr 5:41 (WH) kai krathsav thv ceirov tou paidiou legei auth taliya koum o estin meyermhneuomenon to korasion soi legw egeire
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]ymwq 0tyl+ hl rm0w 0tyl+d hdy0b dx0w [/font]Mr 5:41 (PESHITTA)
Mr 5:41 (MUR) And he took the maid???s hand, and said to her: Maiden, arise.
Mr 7:34 and looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
Mr 7:34 (WH) kai anableqav eiv ton ouranon estenaxen kai legei autw effaya o estin dianoicyhti
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]xtpt0 hl rm0w xntt0w 0ym$b rxw[/font] Mr 7:34 (PESHITTA)
Mr 7:34 (MUR) and looked towards heaven, and sighed, and said to him: Be opened.
Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mr 15:34 (WH) kai th enath wra ebohsen o ihsouv fwnh megalh elwi elwi lama sabacyani o estin meyermhneuomenon o yeov mou o yeov mou eiv ti egkatelipev me
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]yntqb$ 0nml yhl0 yhl0 hyty0d yntqb$ 0nml ly0 ly0 rm0w 0mr 0lqb 9w$y 09q Ny9$ 9$tbw[/font] Mr 15:34 (PESHITTA)
Mr 15:34 (MUR) And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, and said: Il, Il, lemono shebakthone; that is: My God, my God; why hast thou forsaken me?
And John's Gospel in Greek does the same:
Joh 1:38 And Jesus turned, and beheld them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? And they said unto him, Rabbi (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), where abideth thou?
Joh 1:38 (WH) strafeiv de o ihsouv kai yeasamenov autouv akolouyountav legei autoiv ti zhteite oi de eipan autw rabbi o legetai meyermhneuomenon didaskale pou meneiv
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]tn0 0wh 0ky0 Nbr hl Nyrm0 Nwtn0 Ny9b 0nm Nwhl rm0w hrtb Nyt0d Nwn0 0zxw 9w$y ynpt0w[/font] Joh 1:38 (PESHITTA)
Joh 1:38 (MUR) And Jesus turned, and saw them coming after him, and he said to them: What seek ye? They said to him: Our Rabbi, where stayest thou?
Joh 1:41 He findeth first his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah (which is, being interpreted, Christ).Joh 1:41 (WH) euriskei outov prwton ton adelfon ton idion simwna kai legei autw eurhkamen ton messian o estin meyermhneuomenon cristov
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0xy$ml yhynxk$0 hl rm0w yhwx0 Nw9m$l Mdqwl 0zx 0nh [/font]Joh 1:41 (PESHITTA)
Joh 1:41 (MUR) He first saw Simon his brother, and said to him: We have found the Messiah.
Joh 1:42 He brought him unto Jesus. Jesus looked upon him, and said, Thou art Simon the son of John: thou shalt be called Cephas (which is by interpretation, Peter).
Joh 1:42 (WH) hgagen auton prov ton ihsoun embleqav autw o ihsouv eipen su ei simwn o uiov iwannou su klhyhsh khfav o ermhneuetai petrov[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0p0k 0rqtt tn0 0nwyd-hrb Nw9m$ wh tn0 rm0w 9w$y hb rxw 9w$y twl hyty0w[/font] Joh 1:42 (PESHITTA)
Joh 1:42 (MUR) And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus looked upon him, and said Thou art Simon the son of Jona; thou shalt be called Cephas.
Joh 9:7 and said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam (which is by interpretation, Sent). He went away therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
Joh 9:7 (WH) kai eipen autw upage niqai eiv thn kolumbhyran tou silwam o ermhneuetai apestalmenov aphlyen oun kai eniqato kai hlyen blepwn
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0zx dk 0t0w gy$a lz0w 0xwly$d 0tydwm9mb gy$0 lz hl rm0w [/font]Joh 9:7 (PESHITTA)
Joh 9:7 (MUR) and said to him: Go, wash in the baptistery of Siloam. And he went, and washed, and came away seeing.
If our Lord and His disciples and most of Israel spoke Greek, we would expect the opposite to what we do find. We should find some Greek phrases transliterated and then translated into the Aramaic in the Aramaic versions.
We do not find this. Thus the internal Greek evidence supports an Aramaic original and the Aramaic versions do not support a Greek original.
I again refer you to my web site
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://dave.ultimasurf.com">http://dave.ultimasurf.com</a><!-- m -->
for the article on Greek - Aramaic in The Peshitta and also "The Greek word ermeneuo ..."
Tibotha w'burkhtha,
Dave