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_The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - Printable Version

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RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 06-18-2020

Re: 'perish' in Jn 3:16, it was first written as an Aramaic word.

http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr=2:104&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&source=khabouris&size=125%25
G View a KWIC
1  to be lost, disappear  Com. BT Zev 110a(15) .... a deficiency (in the incense) is as if it was lost. TgPs41:6 : .... (a) p.p. lost  Com. CPA(le97) Is 11:12 .... and He shall gather the lost ones of Israel. OS LkCur15:9 .... rejoice with me for I have found my coin that had been lost. GregOr 13 15.4.19 .... he searches for the one who is lost. (b) p.p. someone who has lost something  PTA. TN Deut32:28 .... a nation devoid of counsels. © p.p. fem. something lost: see ....  (d) w. l_ + possessor : to lose something  Syr, JBA. P 1S9:20....  BT AZ 61a(20) .... sometimes he loses an animal, and he ascends (the date palm) to look for it.

2  to perish  Com. Mt Jer 10:11 .... may they disappear from the earth and from beneath this heaven. TN Num17:27 .... look, we are finished, we are destroyed, we all have perished. P Prov11:7 .... BT San 111a(37) :  ....  woe for the ones who perish and are not found [i.e. who cannot be replaced]. (a) to be transient, perishable  Com. TAD B1.1 R13 .... 2 shekels of silver, a perishing shekel and a permanent shekel. P Ps1:6 .... 

3  to be deprived of (w. d.o. or mn)  Gal, Syr. SYAP 65:3 .... hard is the loss you have suffered. ES3 478:22 .... I have been deprived of your glory.
4  to err, go astray  Syr. Kays 257:15 .... our people have erred and lost the truth.

D View a KWIC
1  to destroy, ruin  JLAtg, Gal, PTA, Sam, Syr, JBA, LJLA. TgO Lev19:23....  three years it should be removed for destroying, it may not be eaten. TgJ Jer23:1 .... the leaders who destroy and scatter the people upon whom My name is called. BR 1096:3(1) .... you have destroyed her husband (=EchRB 55:7). TN Deut22:9 .... that you not destroy the complete sowing. ESNisB1 67:1....  IshDan 132(5) .... which he should not reveal to anyone lest he destroy their memory. BT Git 57b(17)....  (a) +šm: to annihilate one's family line  OA. Sf.2.b7.... 
2  to lose something  Gal, JBA. VR 56:1(1) .... he loses his own (money) and that of others.

C View a KWIC
1  to destroy, to ruin  BADan, JLAtg, Gal, CPA, PTA, Sam, Syr, LJLA. Dan2:12 .... TgJ Ez32:13....  SYAP 26:13.... he sought to destroy his genetic line, but the Preserver preserved him. TN Gen6:3.... to destroy and finish off the generation of the flood from the world. CPA Luke17:27(233a) .... the flood came and destroyed them all. P Mt10:39....  PJ Gen4:23.... did I not destroy the lad on whose account they will destroy my descendants?. (a) to eliminate  JLAtg, Syr, LJLA. TgO Lev23:30.... FTP Gen49:22....  visions and thoughts eliminate humans from the world. P Gn18:23.... PJ Deut9:3.... you should drive them out and eliminate them right away. (a.1)  to sink something  Syr. amB 3 245:9 .

2  to lose, to let go  Syr, JBA. PT Tan 66d(62)....  anyone who lost anything. IA1 4:v39.... I shall not lose you since you have found me; do not lose me in that I have found you. BT Šab 152a(10).... ‏  before I have lost something (for good) I search for it. (a) to forfeit  Gal. PTSot19.a:30[2].... ‏  then she should demand her ketubbah while forfeiting her sustenance. (b) to give up something  Gal. BR 770:7(1).... God forbid that I should ever lose hope in my creator.

3  to be destroyed, to be killed (i.e. = passive !)  BADan, LJLA. Dan2:18....  TgJob4:20.... 
4  to lead astray  Syr. ChrPsD 253:4.... if a person wants ... he would not be led astray.

Gt View a KWIC
1  to be lost  Gal, CPA, Sam, JBA, LJLA. VREd 796:3.... Marqe 3.856 . (a) w. l_ + possessor : to lose   JBA. BT Ḥul 95b(39) ....  he lost a large intestine in the store room.

Dt View a KWIC
1  to perish  Sam. Marqe 3.866 .

quad T View a KWIC
1 ....  to be lost (intentionally??)  JBAg. HP Sassoon(1) 131.31 .... afterwards the geṭ was lost.
For Palm. see s.vv. brr and bry. The unique Quad t form is probably a scribal error.

.... 
Derivatives:
ˀbd n.m.   disappearance, ruin
ˀbdh, ˀbdtˀ (ˀaḇdā, ˀaḇdṯā) n.f.   something lost
ˀbdn, ˀbdnˀ (ˀaḇdan, ˀaḇdōn; ˀaḇdānā, ˀuḇdānā) n.m.   destruction, ruin
ˀbdny (ˀaḇdānāy) adj.   harmful, ruinous
byt ˀbdn n.m.   grave
br ˀbdnˀ n.m.   one destined for perdition
ˀbyd (ˀabbīḏ) adj.   ruined, lost
ˀbydw, ˀbydwtˀ (ˀabbīḏū, ˀabbīḏūṯā) n.f.   perversity; loss
ˀbydh, ˀbydtˀ (ˀaḇīḏā, ˀaḇīḏtā) n.f.   something lost
ybydh n.f.   lost object
bwd vb.   to perish
hwbd n.m.   destruction
ybd vb.   to be lost
mwbdn (mawbǝḏān, mawbǝḏānā) nom.ag.C   destroyer
mwbdnw, mwbdnwtˀ (mawbǝḏānū, mawbǝḏānūṯā) n.f.   destruction


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 09-11-2020

"NOT the 'original'"
How do you explain the mistranslations present in Greek mss.?

https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_original_New_Testament_theory
mistranslation at Mt 1:16
Greek manuscripts of Matthew's genealogy list 14, 14, and 13 generations. In Aramaic mss. of Matthew's genealogy, with Mt 1:16's "gbra" correctly translated as father/guardian, Matthew's genealogy lists 14, 14, and 14 generations. Mary had a father/guardian named Joseph (plus a husband also called Joseph). Native Aramaic speaker Paul Younan detected this mistranslation.

mistranslation at Mt 26:6 and Mk 14:3
Greek mss. have Jesus and his disciples visiting the house of a leper. The Greek translation from Aramaic has leper at Mt 26:6 and Mk 14:3, while the Aramaic allows for potter. Lepers were unclean and weren't allowed to have guests over. It's actually Simon the potter. To continue to call someone a leper even after he'd been healed of leprosy would have constituted slander.

mistranslations at Mt 7:6
For Mt 7:6, it's actually 'hang earrings on dogs,' not 'give a holy thing to dogs.' Native Aramaic speaker Paul Younan noticed the two mistranslations in this verse.

mistranslation at Mark 9:49
Mark 9:49 (HCSB) "For everyone will be salted with fire. [a: Other mss add and every sacrifice will be salted with salt]" The complete text was present as of A.D. 175. Arabic Diatessaron 25:23: "Every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt."

The original Aramaic has the complete text; when translated well Mk 9:49 (based on Younan) reads: "For with fire everything will be *vaporized*, and with salt every sacrifice will be *seasoned*." Vaporized and seasoned, the root MLKh can mean 'to salt, season' or 'to destroy, vaporize, scatter.' The intended meaning shifted between the first and second lines—the Messiah plays on the dual meaning of MLKh. See Mk 9 PDF of Paul Younan at http://dukhrana.com

mistranslation at Lk 14:26
The Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Lk 14:26, which when translated well reads: "He who comes to me [Jesus] and does not *sena* [put aside; contextually improper here: hate, have an aversion to] his father and his mother and his brothers and his sisters and his wife and his children and even himself, is not able to be a talmida [student] to me."

mistranslation at John 13:13
Jesus spoke in Aramaic what became John 13:13a. Greek mss. have Jesus say, "ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος" (W&H, NA28 variants). "φωνεῖτέ" ('to call out') was an incorrect word choice for the Greek rendition of his remark: "Ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος [you call me, Teacher and Lord] is bad Greek, just about as astonishing as if one should say in English: "you cry me teacher and lord." The right word, which John knew quite well, would have been καλεῖτε. Why did he ever write φωνεῖν?"[28]

mistranslation for Acts 2:24
When translated well it reads: "But Allaha [God] loosed the cords of Sheol [the Grave/Death] and raised him [Yeshua/Jesus] because it was not possible that he be held in it, in Sheol." The Greek versions mistranslated the word "cords" as 'pain.' (cf. Jn 2:15 & 2 Samuel 22:6) —Paul Younan

mistranslation for Acts 5:13
The Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Acts 5:13: "And there was a great fear in all the eidta [congregation], and in all those who heard. And many mighty deeds and signs occurred by the hands of the Shelikha [Apostles] among the people. And they were all assembled together in the Porch of Shlemon [Soloman]. 13. And of other men, not one dared to *touch* them, rather the people magnified them. The word translated by "touch" can mean "join/commune" but also "touch," the latter undoubtedly being the correct reading. The Greek versions mistranslated this word as "join".—PY

mistranslation for Acts 8:23
The Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Acts 8:23: "But repent of this your evil and beseech Allaha [God]. Perhaps you [Simon the sorcerer] will be forgiven the guile of your heart. 23. For I [Shimon Keepa/ Simon Peter] see that you are in bitter *anger* and in the bonds of iniquity." The Aramaic word kabda can mean gall/liver/anger. The Greek versions mistranslate "bitter kabda" as "gall of bitterness" instead of the more contextually proper "bitter anger".—PY

mistranslation for Acts 8:27
The Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Acts 8:27, which when translated well reads: "And he [Pileepos/ Philip] arose (and) went and met a certain *mahaymina* [believer] who had come from Cush, an official of Qandeq, the malkta [queen] of the Cushites, and he was an authority over all her treasures. And he had come to worship in Urishlim." Re: MHYMNA, it can mean either 'believer' or 'eunuch'—or many similar things. The Greek versions mistranslate this as 'eunuch' instead of the more contextually correct 'believer'.—PY. The Ethiopian believer was intending to worship in Jerusalem, presumably in the temple there—which eunuchs were prohibited from doing by Deut 23:2. Cf. Mt 19:12.

mistranslation at Rev 1:13
The mistranslation says Jesus has female breasts: Rev 1:13, Common English Bible: "In the middle of the lampstands I saw someone who looked like the Human One. He wore a robe that stretched down to his feet, and he had a gold sash around his chest.[aj]" The Greek word used here is mastos and is used exclusively for a woman's breasts.

mistranslation at Rev 2:22
The Greek mistranslation rendered a word as "bed," thereby having an adulterous woman being thrown into a bed. (It should have used "bier."). The KJV translators translated Rev 2:21–22: "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

The NASB added "of sickness" in italics, thereby indicating to the reader that they had added it beyond what the Greek has: "I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds."

It would make more sense if she'd been said to have been thrown onto a mortuary couch i.e. a bier—and doing such is possible translating from the Aramaic Revelation.

mistranslation at Rev 10:1
The mistranslation says "feet" were like 'columns/pillars of fire,' while the Aramaic better allows for the correct rendition, "legs like columns/pillars of fire."

Revelation 10:1 (KJV) And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet [Greek: podes/πόδες/feet] as pillars of fire:

mistranslations at Mt 5:13 and Lk 14:34 (but not at Mk 9:50)
Matthew 5:13 and Luke 14:34 in Greek mss. have an erroneous translation of the original Aramaic th-p-k-h by rendering it as μωρανθῇ/ foolish. In contrast, Mark 9:50 in Greek mss. correctly render Jesus' remarks about salt that becomes ἄναλον/ unsalty.[29]


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 09-12-2020

What's your explanation for the atrocious Greek grammar in the Greek Revelation?

Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958), was at the now-defunct https://www.preteristarchive .com/1958_torrey_the-apocalypse-of-john/
In regard to the strange Greek constructions Norden, quoted above, truly says that in every case of a barbarism the correct usage appears elsewhere in the book. There is no lack of knowledge of Greek idiom. As for the Greek particles, the manner of their use or absence is like what we see throughout the Greek Bible. Here also there is no proof of ignorance. Charles explanation is decidedly less plausible than the others.

There is excellent reason, however, for one conclusion he reaches―expressed in similar words by many before him―namely, that “the linguistic character of the Apocalypse is absolutely unique.” The grammatical monstrosities of the book, in their number and variety and especially in their startling character, stand alone in the history of literature. It is only in the Greek that they are apparent, for it is the form, not the sense, that is affected.
A few of the more striking solecisms are exhibited here in English translation, so that any reader may see their nature.

1:4. “Grace to you, and peace, from he who is and who was and who is to come” (all nom. case).
1:15. “His legs were like burnished brass (neut. gend., dative case) as in a furnace purified (fem. gend., sing. no., gen. case)”
11:3. “My witnesses (nom.) shall prophesy for many days clothed (accus.) in sackcloth.”
14:14. “I saw on the cloud one seated like unto a son-of-man (accus.), having (nom.) upon his head a golden crown.”
14:19. “He harvested the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress (fem.), the great [winepress] (masc.) of the wrath of God.”
17:4. “A golden cup filled with abominations (gen.) and with unclean things (accus.).”
19:20. “The lake of blazing fire (“fire,” neut.; “blazing,” fem.).
20:2. “And he seized the dragon (accus.), the old serpent (nom.), who is the Devil and Satan and bound him.”
21:9. “Seven angels, holding the seven bowls (accus.) filled (gen.) with the seven last plagues.”
22:5. “They have no need of lamplight (gen.) nor of sunlight (accus.).”

This apparent linguistic anarchy has no explanation on the Greek side. It is hardly surprising that to some readers it should have seemed open defiance of grammar, to others a symptom of mental aberration. Nevertheless there is method to it all. The more grotesque these barbarisms, the more certain it is that they are not due to lack of acquaintance with Greek. Each of the rules broken in the passages here cited is faithfully observed in many other places and shown to be perfectly familiar.
....
In fact, underlying all of the amazing solecisms is seen the wording of the Semitic original. The grammatical monstrosities, recognized in their true nature, testify to the execution of a definite purpose carried through with remarkable consistency. When they are examined, they are found to show grammatical appreciation rather than the lack of it. But it is Aramaic grammar!
(Nevertheless, the ideal of a thoroughly accurate translation was incapable of realization, as we know to our sorrow. No Greek translator of an unpointed Semitic text of the extent of this apocalypse could possibly come through without his considerable sheath of mistranslations. We have no knowledge of any such faultless―or even nearly faultless―achievement.*)
What the Greek translator of Revelation does, in the effort to be exactly faithful, is merely an exaggeration of what is regularly and constantly done in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The translators rendered as they did because of the conception of their task. They were handing down works of high importance, and would assume no unnecessary responsibility. What they―each and all―aimed at was to produce a text which could be understood by the Greek reader and at the same should mirror faithfully every word and phrase of the sacred original. This, the original, was the all-important thing, and the fact was always kept in view. The style of the translation was of no consequence; it was not Greek, nor ever intended to be.
*See Our Translated Gospels [by Torrey], chapter 1; The Four Gospels [by Torrey], pages 265-74.


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 09-15-2020

“I said His Hebrew name, not title. What passage do they refer to Him by His name OTHER than Iesous?”

AFAIK, in the Greek manuscripts, all the passages mentioning Jesus Christ and 3 other Israelites use a transliteration from Hebrew/Aramaic into Greek, namely “Iesous.”

Luke 3:29 (NIV) the son of Joshua [Greek: 2424 Iēsou/ Ἰησοῦ/ of Joshua], the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,

2424. Iésous
https://biblehub.com/greek/2424.htm
Iésous: Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.
Original Word: Ἰησοῦς, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Iésous
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ay-sooce')
Definition: Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr
Usage: Jesus; the Greek form of Joshua; Jesus, son of Eliezer; Jesus, surnamed Justus.

“There are NO Aramaic manuscripts that pre-date the Greek ones of the NT”
Which demonstrates what?
If there were “NO Aramaic manuscripts that pre-date the Greek ones of” Josephus’s histories, would you conclude that Josephus’s works were originally composed in Greek?

“The letters were written to Greek speaking people groups”
Evidence?

“we have ZERO PROOF that the NT books were written in Aramaic or Hebrew first.... Greek was the common language of the Roman empire and Latin was second”
As you look at the 4 Gospels and Acts, what language did Jesus and his students speak? (Greek? Latin?)

“Give ANY evidence why any letters would be written in Hebrew or Aramaic to be sent to a group of Greek speaking ‘gentiles’ in Asia or Rome”
Do you agree with me that Paul's native language was Aramaic?
I’m saying the 4 Gospels and Paul’s letters and Revelation were originally composed in Aramaic, and were translated into Greek.

“asking for is EVIDENCE”
Did Rev 15:2 originally read:
“harps of God”?
“harps of aloe”?

Revelation 15:2 (YLT)
https://biblehub .com/revelation/15-2.htm
and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire,
and those who do gain the victory over the beast,
and his image,
and his mark,
and the number of his name,
standing by the sea of the glass,
having harps of God,

Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
once at preteristarchive dot com
15:2 (last clause). : “Harps of God”-- a very strange expression, not justified by the context, nor by any parallel. The seer is shown a company standing by the glassy sea, prepared to sing the Song of Moses and the Lamb and “holding harps of God”-- where we should expect some word really descriptive of the instruments. The phrase may perhaps not be pronounced “impossible,” but it certainly is to the last degree improbable. In any Hebrew or Aramaic text written at this time, care was taken to avoid the unnecessary use of names or designations of God; in this case the use of the word was not only unnecessary but also unnatural.

This phrase as it stands seems to designate a class, or collection, of harps. Charles, 2, 343, refers to 1 Chron. 16:42, kᵉlē šīr hɔʾɛlohīm and 2 Chron. 7:6 kᵉlē šīr YHWH; but (1) the introduction of the word šīr makes the case quite different; and (2) it is worth noticing that Targ. Chron. does not permit even this form of words, but in both passages inserts qɔdɔm (“in the presence of”) before the word designating God.

It can hardly be doubted that the present text is wrong. The Greek gives no foothold for emendation, but as soon as the Aramaic it renders is restored, the cause of the trouble is made clear. What the author of the Apocalypse wrote was not kinnɔrīn dī ʾɛlɔhɔʾ, “harps of God,” but kinnɔrīn dī ʾᵃlɔhɔʾ, “harps of aloes wood." This precious wood, famed for its fragrance (Psa. 45:9[8 English]; Prov. 7:17; Song of Songs 4:14), is precisely the material that would be expected in this place. The word was either carelessly miswritten or else too hastily translated. Another characteristic misreading.

Song of Solomon 4:14 (YLT)
https://biblehub .com/songs/4-14.htm
https://biblehub .com/interlinear/songs/4-14.htm
Cypresses with nard -- nard and saffron, Cane and cinnamon, With all trees of frankincense, Myrrh and aloes, with all chief spices.
174/ wa·’ă·hā·lō·wṯ/וַאֲהָל֔וֹת / and aloes

“The Peshitta translated FROM THE GREEK well after the Greek was written”
What evidence in the Peshitta do you see that supports that claim?

“Why would Syriac/Aramaic need to be translated from the Greek, if it was already initially written in Aramaic?”
I don’t understand the question. My position is that the New Testament books were originally composed in Aramaic, and were translated into Greek, then Latin, English, etc.

=============================================================.
“All the ‘mistranslations’ cited are based on presuppositions. If someone changed the Greek into a more sensical word use, that doesn't prove the initial manuscript was Aramaic”
Do you think Jesus' words were originally spoken in: Aramaic? Hebrew? Greek? Latin?
Do you think Jesus' words were originally written in: Aramaic? Hebrew? Greek? Latin?

Do you agree with Greek mss. that those in danger of Gehenna fire include: Jesus? Paul?

Matthew 5:22 (Weymouth NT)
https://biblehub .com/matthew/5-22.htm
https://biblehub .com/interlinear/matthew/5-22.htm
But I say to you that every one who becomes angry with his brother shall be answerable to the magistrate;
that whoever says to his brother 'Raca,' [Ῥακά/ Raca: transliteration of an Aramaic word meaning "spit"] shall be answerable to the Sanhedrin;
and that whoever says, 'You fool!' [Greek: 3474 [e] Mōre/ Μωρέ/ Fool] shall be liable to the Gehenna of Fire.

Matthew 23:17 (YLT)
https://biblehub .com/matthew/23-17.htm
https://biblehub .com/interlinear/matthew/23-17.htm
Fools [Greek: 3474 [e] μωροὶ/ mōroi] and blind! for which is greater, the gold, or the sanctuary that is sanctifying the gold?

1 Corinthians 4:9-10 (YLT)
https://biblehub .com/ylt/1_corinthians/4.htm
https://biblehub .com/interlinear/1_corinthians/4-10.htm
for I think that God did set forth us the apostles last-- as appointed to death, because a spectacle we became to the world, and messengers, and men; we [are] fools [Greek: 3474 [e] μωροὶ/ mōroi] because of Christ, and ye wise in Christ; we [are] ailing, and ye strong; ye glorious, and we dishonoured;

“If Matthew used Mark as the base to draw from, then”
Matthew didn’t do that.

“There is NO evidence that Luke or John were written in Aramaic initially”
How do you think John 14:2 originally read?

For John 14:2, the UBS Peshitta has "w-a-l-a," while the Khabouris mss. has "w-a-n l-a."
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+14:2&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+14:2&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25

_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp.
by Charles Cutler Torrey. On 108, 113-114
Exhibit XIX. Wrong Vocalization of the Aramaic. ....
c. Jn. 14:2 ac. to Grk.: In my Father's house are many
dwellings; IF NOT (.... [snip pointed Aramaic having "w-l-a"] ....),
I would have told you that I go to prepare a place for you.
....
Exhibit XIX, C (Jn. 14:2). What the Grk. gives in
the second half of the verse, whether the words are taken
as a question or as a declaration, is mere nonsense. In this
case also, corruption of the Grk. text and editorial alteration
have been suspected; but here again, as in the preceding
example and as usual, the reading of the original Aram.
was faultless. It was the translator who made the trouble.
The solution of the difficulty is ridiculously simple, and is
certain. That which Jesus says here he repeats, in almost
the same words, in 16:7: _"I tell you the truth, it is better
for you that I go away."_ The verb here rendered "it is better"
is presumably the same which was employed in the
present passage, for it is regularly used in both meanings.
The _necessity_ is again emphasized at the end of the chapter,
vs. 31; but the time when the eleven most needed to have
this declared to them was at the beginning of this discourse,
after Jesus had so disturbed them by announcing that he
was soon to leave them.

The word _wale_ ["-" over: "a" and "e"], "it is fitting, expedient,
necessary," is very likely to be mistaken for the omnipresent
_wela_ [curved upward "-" shape over "e," and "-" over "a"],
"and not." (I have seen this mistake made many times by students
reading unpointed Syriac texts.) It was for this reason, evidently,
that the word disappears from the beginning of the
verse Targ. Prov. 24:26 in so many mss. and editions; see
Levy's _Worterbuch_. For the reading "if not, otherwise," the
best examples are 2 Sam. 13:26 and 2 Ki. 5:17. Another
example, generally unrecognized, even by the learned Heb.
tradition, is 1 Sam. 20:12.

/////////////////
How do you think John 12:11 originally read?

2006: Raphael L…, Was the New Testament Written in Greek?
12. To go – John 12:11
The KJV says: “Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.”

One word that the Greek translators often misunderstood was the Hebrew word Klh [h-l-k] and the Aramaic word lz0 [a-z-l] which normally mean "to go" or "to depart" but is used idiomatically in Hebrew and Aramaic to mean that some action goes forward and that something progresses "more and more". The following are several examples from the Old Testament. In each of these cases the Hebrew reads Klh [h-l-k] and the Aramaic reads lz0 [a-z-l] in both the Peshitta Old Testament and the Targums:

And the waters returned from the earth continually. . . Gen. 8:3
And the man waxed great and went forward, and grew. . . Gen. 26:13
And the hand of the children of Israel grew stronger and stronger Judges 4:24
the Philistenes went on and increased 1Sam. 14:19
but David waxed stronger and stronger 2Sam. 3: 1

One case where the Greek translator misunderstood this word and translated “to go” literally is:
John 12:11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

They went away? Certainly John’s intended meaning was:
because many of the Judeans, on account of him, were trusting more and more lz0 [a-z-l] in Yeshua.

////////////////////
“Greek Septuagint, was quoted in the NT often”
2 examples?

“John 21: 15-17 Christ uses Love in multiple Greek uses (Agape & Phileo)”
Which means what?

///////////////////////////
John 21:15-17

For this passage, the HCSB opens with:
When they had eaten breakfast, Jesus asked Simon Peter,
"Simon, son of John,[a: Other mss read _Simon, son of Jonah_; Mt 16:17; Jn 1:42]
do you love Me more than these?"

As of A.D. 175, the passage had "Simon, son of Jonah," as seen below.

In this post-resurrection scene, Greek manuscripts have Jesus saying to Peter,
"Tend for me my
arnion [lambs]?.
probaton [adult sheep/ goats]?.
probaton"-- only two different words. See page 106 of
http://ia802503.us.archive.org/18/items/WastheNewTestamentReallyWritteninGreek1e/WastheNewTestamentReallyWritteninGreek1e.pdf

In contrast, as of A.D. 175, the passage had Jesus saying to Peter,
"Tend for me my lambs?. rams?. ewes"-- three different words:

by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron 54:39-41
And when they had breakfasted, Jesus said to Simon Cephas,
Simon, son of Jonah, lovest thou me more than these?
He said unto him, Yea, my Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus said unto him,
Feed for me my lambs.
He said unto him again a second time,
Simon, son of Jonah, lovest thou me?
He said unto him, Yea, my Lord; thou knowest that I love thee.
He said unto him,
Feed for me my sheep [Lit. _rams_].
He said unto him again the third time,
Simon, son of Jonah, lovest thou me?
And it grieved Cephas that he said unto him three times, Lovest thou me?
He said unto him, My Lord, thou knowest everything; thou knowest that I love thee.
Jesus said unto him, Feed for me my sheep [Lit. _ewes_].

Similarly, the original Aramaic of the Peshitta has Jesus saying to Peter,
"Tend for me
amri [my lambs/ young sheep]?.
airbi [my rams/ adult male sheep]?.
nequthi [my ewes/ adult female sheep]"--
again, three different words:

John 21:15-17 (Younan)
Now after they had dined, Yeshua said to Shimon Keepa,
"Shimon bar-Yonah [Simon son of Jonah],
do you love me more than these?"
He said to him, "Yes, Mari [my Lord]. You know that I love you." He said to him,
"Tend for me amri [my lambs/ young sheep]."
16. He said again to him the second time,
"Shimon bar-Yonah,
do you love me?"
He said to him, "Yes, Mari. You know that I love you."
Yeshua said to him,
"Tend for me airbi [my rams/ adult male sheep]."
17. He said to him the third time,
"Shimon bar-Yonah,
do you love me?"
And Keepa [Peter] was sad that he said the third time to him that, "Do you love me?" And he said to him, "Mari, you understand everything. You know that I love you!" Yeshua said to him,
"Tend for me nequthi [my ewes/ adult female sheep].

Incidentally, in the original Aramaic, the word used for "love," rkhm, is identical throughout the conversation for both Peter and Jesus.
In contrast, Greek translations have Jesus saying
"agape?. agape?. phileo,"
and have Peter implausibly responding with
"phileo?. phileo?. phileo."

==================================================.
“Matthew 16:18 Christ refers to Peter in multiple Greek ways for Rock”
And the significance of that is what, exactly?

"Acts 9:29 And he was talking and arguing with the Hellenistic Jews; but they were attempting to put him to death.
Paul speaking in Hebrew or Aramaic was noted in a way so as to be uncommon. It's mention wouldn't make sense otherwise"
I don't understand your reasoning. Did God speak to Saul on the road to Damascus in:
Greek? Hebrew? Aramaic? Latin?

In the area where Judas Iscariot murdered himself, did the people speak in:
Greek? Hebrew? Aramaic? Latin?

"Acts 21:37-40 Paul speaks both languages"
Yes, Paul could speak both Aramaic and Greek. I bet his Greek abilities (unusual for a Jew from Judea) is one of the reasons God chose Saul to become Paul and be a missionary of the Messiah to the heathens.

"irrefutable internal evidence that GREEK was spoken by Paul"
Yes, Paul could speak both Aramaic and Greek.

"http://aramaicnt.org/articles/problems-with-peshitta-primacy/ "
What are 2 arguments/observations from there you find especially-compelling?

=================================================.
"As if there haven't been many explanations over the years discussing the discrepancy of the Jeremiah passage"
I'm sure lots of ink has been used concocting explanations. What's the best explanation of which you're aware?

"The non-Greek iterations don't even list a prophet"
The Latin does. Which "iterations" were you thinking of?

Matthew 27 (Douay-Rheims), biblehub: Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English
9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremias the prophet, saying:
And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was prized, whom they prized of the children of Israel.
10 And they gave them unto the potter's field, as the Lord appointed to me.

Matthew 27:9 (Clementine Vulgate), dukhrana .com
Tunc impletum est quod dictum est per Ieremiam prophetam, dicentem: Et acceperunt triginta argenteos pretium appretiati, quem appretiaverunt a filiis Israel:

"the Matthew genealogy issue... was in the link I cited.
' "There is not a single ancient lexicographer in any dialect of Aramaic that attests to this, nor a single ancient Syriac-speaking theologian who brought this possibility up, nor a single modern lexicographer that attests to this meaning either. However, plenty of ancient sources attest to the fact that gavrā — in the relational context of a genealogy — exclusively means “husband” (just like the word ἄνδρα andra does in Greek)." '

How do you think GBRA ought be translated in these passages?:
• Matthew 7:9
• Matthew 21:28
• Matthew 22:2

///////////////////////////////
"Feature 3 – Mistranslating the Genealogies of Yeshua" by Paul David Younan, 228+ in the PDF; a few minor tweaks, plus bracketing http://ia802503.us.archive.org/18/items/WastheNewTestamentReallyWritteninGreek1e/WastheNewTestamentReallyWritteninGreek1e.pdf
Contextual Usage of 0rbg [GBRA] in the Aramaic New Testament
Although mainly used to mean ‘man’ in a generic sense, the term can also mean ‘husband’ depending on the context.

Why is it that sometimes the general meaning of ‘man’ is increased in specificity, depending on context, to mean 'husband'? For no more reason than saying - ‘I now pronounce you man and wife" can also be said "I now pronounce you husband and wife." Since a husband is merely a more ‘specific’ type of ‘man’, this equation of terminology is quite acceptable, even in English.

The question then arises - can the term, when used in proper context, also mean 'Father'? I believe it can be demonstrated from the Gospels that all three shades of meaning are attested to depending on context.

Verses in the Gospels where 0rbg [GBRA] is used to mean the generic ‘man’, although by no means an exhaustive list, include:
• Matthew 7:24
• Matthew 7:26
• Matthew 8:9
• Matthew 9:9

Some examples of the contextual variant ‘husband’ include: • Matthew 19:5
• Matthew 19:10
• Mark 10:2
• 1 Corinthians 7:14
• 1 Corinthians 7:16
• 2 Corinthians 11:2
• Ephesians 5:23.

Finally, the contextual variant ‘father’ can be read in:
• Matthew 7:9
• Matthew 21:28
• Matthew 22:2
• and, arguably, Matthew 1:16.

Since the subject matter of this thesis attempts to reconcile the two accounts of Jesus’ lineage, let’s have a closer look at Matthew 1:16, and a related verse - Matthew 1:19, in the Aramaic of the Peshitta.

MATTHEW 1:16 & 1:19
The Aramaic reading in the Peshitta version is:
Myrmd hrbg Pswyl dwl0 Bwq9y

The verse reads: "Jacob fathered Yoseph, the hrbg [GBRH] of Maryam." The word used here, in verse 16, is 0rbg [GBRA] with a 3rd-person feminine pronominal possessive suffix of h [H] (i.e., ‘her Gaw-ra.’) This word has traditionally been translated ‘husband’, however, the main Semitic term for ‘Husband’, is f9b [B-AI-L-A] ("Ba’la", or, hl9b [B-AI-L-H] for ‘Her husband.) Examples of this word can be found in:
• Matthew 1:19
• Mark 10:12
• Luke 2:36
• John 4:16-18
• Romans 7:2-3
• 1 Corinthians 7:4, 7:10, 7:13, 7:16, 7:39
• Ephesians 5:33
• 1 Timothy 3:2
• Titus 1:6.

Why would Matthew use two different terms, in such a short span of writing (3 verses - 1:16 to 1:19), to refer to Maryam’s ‘husband’, Yoseph?

The fact is, he had to distinguish between two different people named Joseph-- Matthew is not referring to Mary’s husband in verse 16 at all, but rather her father!

Depending on context, it has been shown that 0rbg [GBRA] can mean ‘man, husband or father.’ The usage in verse 16 would demand that we translate 0rbg [GBRA] as ‘father’, rather than 'husband', since the context is a genealogy. Verses 18 & 19, however, would demand that we associate _that_ Joseph with her ‘husband’, since the context is that of marriage.

Matthew, then, is recording the genealogy of Mary, whereas Luke is recording that of Joseph. Which would be exactly opposite of the currently accepted academic line-- that Luke recorded Mary’s lineage while Matthew recorded that of Joseph.

That would give us 14 generation in the third series of Matthew. It would also explain why Luke has 20 generations in the 2nd series and 22 generations in the 3rd series - i.e., Joseph's lineage did not break out cleanly in 14-generation groupings, except for the first series. Since Matthew is giving the line of Mary, only her lineage would be required to break out evenly in 14-generation groupings. That would also explain why the names are completely different in both the 2nd and 3rd series between the accounts in Matthew and in Luke. It also demonstrates that both Mary and Joseph were descendents of King David - each through a separate line!

A valid question is-- 'Isn't it a fact that lineages generally exclude females?' The answer to that, generally, is yes. However, the problem is that Mary is the only real human parent that Jesus had. Jesus was the only person in history who had no human father-- whose previous generation included only one person. So in order to count 14 generations - Mary must be included, even though it would introduce a female in the lineage. In order to demonstrate that Jesus is the Son of David, Mary must be demonstrated to descend from David's house!

Here is a revised view of the Genealogical Record, according to a more proper understanding of Aramaic Matthew: ....

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"I'll have to look into it further...as some good points are raised in your citations. .... your reservations on the 'gentile' groups outside of Jerusalem far into the Roman Empire near Rome and Asia, being 'Aramaic or Hebrew' speaking people has ZERO evidence going for it"
I don't recall making that claim. I do claim that the NT was originally written down in Aramaic, and then translated.
I'll claim that the Jews who made pilgrimages to Jerusalem probably had their country of origin's main language as their native language-- likely not Aramaic, and certainly not Hebrew.
It wouldn't surprise me if all of Paul's letters were composed in Aramaic, translated into Greek, and sent to Greek-speaking converts from Judaism into fully-orbed Judaism that recognized Jesus as the Meshikha/Messiah, and sent to Greek-speaking converts from paganism/heathenism into Christianity.

"I am saying that the 'evidence' you provide is merely anecdotal"
Evidence and arguments that rely on the text of the Aramaic and the Greek mss. isn't "anecdotal." I'm not quoting opinions and hearsay from say Jerome and Eusebius about matters.

"In the case of Josephus' works...most of his WERE in Greek.... We KNOW Josephus wrote much of his works in Greek because his intended audience was Greek speaking"
Eventually, yes. They started as Aramaic, Josephus with _great_ difficulty learned Greek, translated his works into Greek, and hired native Greek speakers to polish things.

"Against Apion Excerpt: Chap 1 .... Those Antiquities contain the history of five thousand years, and are taken out of our sacred books, but are translated by me into the Greek tongue"
"this INTERNAL evidence demonstrates"
So you _do_ agree with me that Josephus's works were translated into Greek?

"Luke records MANY of the conversations between Paul and Greek speaking people around the Empire...which means Luke had to be fluent in Greek to understand and record it"
Sounds fine to me.

"Is Theophilus a Greek speaking person or Hebrew? He certainly wasn't familiar with Jerusalem as Luke often iterates locations around Jerusalem for him"
Probably Greek-speaking, almost-certainly not Hebrew-speaking.

"Also: Acts 2.... saying, 'Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 'And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 'Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.'
Notice there were JEWS who spoke MANY other languages depending on where they came from for Pentecost. So Hebrew or Aramaic was NOT the only language of Jews but only of a specific region"
Agreed.

"Knowing this, why would Hebrew or Aramaic be written to groups of people FAR REMOVED from that Region.. when Greek was more commonly understood in those places?"
The NT was originally written down in Aramaic. It was then translated into Greek.

If I-- a native English speaker-- am writing a letter to someone in Russia who knows only Russian, a good approach would be for me to write it in English, have Google translate turn it into Russian, and then have a bilingual Russian & English-speaking friend polish it for me before I send it.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Yes, if you could not write Russian, it would make sense for you to write it in English and have it translated into Russian. Would you then take that English version, which was meant for the Russians, and distribute it as well?"
If I wrote a letter for all my friends, some of who know only English, and some of whom know only Russian, I'd distribute my letter-- which I originally wrote in English-- to my English-speaking friends in the language of English, and to my Russian-speaking friends in the language of Russian.

"Luke (not Paul) wrote Luke and Acts for Theophilus. There is NO need to task him with writing in Hebrew or Aramaic first if he was able to write in Greek and you have not put forth ANY evidence that Luke was not able to write it in Greek"
I bet he could have written it in Greek if he'd wanted to. But based on what I've seen, I say he didn't.

"What evidence can you cite to support Josephus wrote 'Against Apion' and 'Antiquities of the Jews' in Aramaic first and then Greek?"
In Aramaic: I'd have to search.
"and then Greek?"
Quoting you quoting Josephus, my asterisks:

"Against Apion Excerpt: Chap 1
I SUPPOSE that by my books of the Antiquity of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus, have made it evident to those who peruse them, that our Jewish nation is of very great antiquity, and had a distinct subsistence of its own originally; as also, I have therein declared how we came to inhabit this country wherein we now live. Those Antiquities contain the history of five thousand years, and are taken out of our sacred books, but **are translated by me into the Greek tongue."**

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The Church of the East has carefully recopied the Aramaic mss. (except for the 'Western Five'-- 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, & Revelation) through the years, ever since receiving the NT books from their authors in the original Aramaic.
The Khabouris mss. is an example of that careful transmission tradition.
http://dukhrana.com/khabouris/

In sharp contrast, the Greek mss. transmission was quite sloppy, leading to a morass of conflicting Greek textual variants.

Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, Often Bolstered by the Diatesseron, Adjudicating Between Conflicting Greek Manuscripts
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/iI-uGFZ9CjwJ

A) Special Features of the Aramaic Peshitta New Testament
B) Mistranslations/ Mistransmissions/ Missed Translations/ Additions to/ Corruptions in Greek Manuscripts, Contrasted with the Original Aramaic
C) Semitic Idioms in Greek NT Mss.
https://groups.google.com/g/aus.religion.islam/c/bzdQCJTVhyk/m/SdGP_f82uUoJ

//////////////////////////////////////////////
Minorities are sometimes correct. E.g., Galileo was correct, while his numerous naysayers were incorrect.
Do you think Raphael Lancaster aka 'Lataster' has done "'scholarly' research" to arrive at his at-one-time 'Peshitta-first' conclusions?

_Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?: A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy_
https://pdfslide.net/documents/aramaic-peshitta-primacy-2008.html

How about Charles Cutler Torrey, who said Matthew through the first half of Acts, and Revelation, were written originally in Aramaic?

///////////////////////////////////////////////////
Greek mss. have 'Christos' where the Aramaic has 'Meshikha.' Understanding that Jesus was the Anointed One, the anointed priest prophet and king God-Man, that was prophesied in the Hebrew OT with its 'Mashiach,' greatly improves awareness of Jesus' mission and fulfillment of OT prophecy.

If someone these days is heavily into Judaism and awaits the arrival of the Mashiach/ Messiah, and she reads a NT with "Messiah" where the Greek mss. have 'Christos' and where the original Aramaic has 'Meshikha,' she is more likely to recognize and grapple with the NT's claim that Jesus is the long-predicted awaited Messiah.

If someone these days is heavily into study of the Bible and is trying to see how the OT is fulfilled in the NT, and he reads a NT with "Messiah"/"Anointed One" where the Greek mss. have 'Christos' and where the original Aramaic has 'Meshikha,' he is more likely to recognize in the OT foreshadowings of Jesus that are revealed as concrete realities in the NT.

One doesn't need to affiliate one's self with things Jewish to be curious or concerned regarding how exactly Jesus is prophesied about in the OT.

"Christos" doesn't mean anything in Greek. "Mashiach" in Hebrew and "Meshikha" in Aramaic mean "Anointed."

"what does an Aramaic translation offer us, which a Greek translation does not"
The Aramaic original has interesting features not present in the Greek mss., e.g. Mt's version of the Lord's Prayer rhymes extensively, Lk's version lacks rhyming in 2 locations, the Greek Mt's and Lk's versions lack rhyming, and the Greek Lk version lacks much text that is present in the Aramaic Lk version.
The Greek mss. have several mistranslations in Mt through the 1st half of Acts, and in Rev. Much ink through the centuries has been used debating problems with the Greek texts that are resolved via looking at and correctly translating the Aramaic.

The Aramaic has "MrYh" = Master YHWH, while the Greek rendered every 'lord' as 'kurios'-- even the instances where 'sir' is the better rendition in English.
Using the "MrYh" present in the Aramaic, it's easier to make the case using the NT that Jesus is YHWH.

Some have been plagued with doubts about Jesus and had their faith severely shaken given the morass of conflicting Greek mss. textual variants. Bible critics have had a field day with that morass.

"why isn't there more support for the Aramaic being original"
I dunno. I imagine that people who have built their careers/livelihoods on study of the Greek mss. are reluctant to acknowledge that all that time spent examining the Greek was spent examining merely a translation.

Scott Maxham "it would be an issue of pride, having studied lots and lots of Greek, to then discover it may be a translation?"
I'm sure for some. Certainly not all. Different people have different motivations. Some people aren't even aware there is the Aramaic.

"Does the Aramaic version present any doctrines you are aware of that are dramatically divergent from the Greek text?"
No. Also, there are some minor differences between the Peshitta and the Peshitto, besides the major difference between them of the Peshitta lacking the 'Western Five' (2 Peter, 2 Jn, 3 Jn, Jude, Revelation).
"So I am starting to discern that your Pentecostal leanings are drawn from your favoring of the Peshitta Primacy issue?"
Is that a question?
"I see William Branham and George Lamsa were associates. I was for a time with the Pentecostals. I recall that the Lamsa Bible is the favored translation by a cult group in the Philippines where my wife is from. Is it true that it diminishes the trinity and the deity of Christ?"
Not that I'm aware of. I've not read it, given that I noticed it downplayed the supernatural.
"I'm looking now to that key topic as being the reason David that most scholars reject the Peshitta Primacy theory"
How many scholars have you asked? Different people have different reasons.

Glenn David Bauscher, translator of the OT and NT from the Aramaic (except for the deuterocanonicals):
"BTW, Lamsa did not even translate the whole TaNaK from the Peshitta. He mixed a lot of KJV readings from the Hebrew Massoretic Bible in many passages where the Peshitta text differs from the Hebrew readings."

////////////////////////////////////////////
_Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?: A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy_
https://pdfslide.net/documents/aramaic-peshitta-primacy-2008.html PDF: http://ia802503.us.archive.org/18/items/WastheNewTestamentReallyWritteninGreek1e/WastheNewTestamentReallyWritteninGreek1e.pdf
Appendix A – The Deceptive Nature of Greek Primacy

In this short discussion, I will highlight some of the main ways in which Greek primacists suppress the Peshitta: Misinformation and outright deception.

First, we shall take a look at the late Dr. Bruce Metzger, perhaps the most respected and revered Biblical scholar, textual critic and Greek primacist of our time, and who was involved with the American Bible Society, the United Bible Societies and the National Council of Churches (in the USA). As a regular editor to the UBS’ Nestle-Aland Bible text, this man had a big impact on the readings of modern Bible versions.

In 1992, Dr. Metzger delivered a lecture on “Highlights from the Sermon on the Mount” at the Foundation for Biblical Research, in Charlestown, New Hampshire, USA. This lecture is full of innacuracies:

“Yes, there are Aramaic documents, especially now that the Qumran Dead Sea Scrolls have come to light -- that were written about the time of Jesus -- documents in Hebrew and Aramaic that are non￾religious documents. Some of them are religious documents. They help us to understand the ambiance of society at that time. So that's the "yes" part of my answer.

But the "no" part to your question is this: We have no records in manuscript form of the gospels in Aramaic. There are no Aramaic documents of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John left. All we have are Greek documents of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. So -- except for these four fossils that are left embedded in the text of Mark, the four brief statements or words in Aramaic from Jesus -- no! And people today that sell books and say, "Oh, here, I have translated the Aramaic documents of the gospels" -- they are frauds. They're out for our money. Don't be taken in by such works.” – Dr. Bruce Metzger This, from the same man who has written much on the textual criticism of the Peshitta, Peshitto and Old Syriac Gospels. His claim that “We have no records in manuscript form of the gospels in Aramaic” is undeniably false, as his own books testify:

“Surprisingly, while the Four Gospels in the Peshitta are generally Byzantine type texts, the Book of Acts in the Peshitta has Western type tendencies. In the Gospels it [the Peshitta] is closer to the Byzantine type of text than in Acts, where it presents many striking agreements with the Western text.” – The Text of the New Testament 2nd ed, Bruce Metzger; 1968 p.70

What does that say of Greek primacy if even the most respected (arguably) Greek primacist of our time needs to resort to such measures?

Dr. Metzger then goes on to criticize Dr. George Lamsa (famous Aramaic and Peshitta primacist), a favorite hobby of those wishing to suppress knowledge of the Peshitta. “George Lamsa, L-A-M-S-A, who in the 1940s persuaded a reputable publisher of the Bible in Philadelphia, the Winston Publishing Company, to issue his absolute fraud, of 'the Bible translated from the original Aramaic.' Absolutely a money getter, and nothing else.

He said that 'the whole of the New Testament was written in Aramaic,' and he 'translates it from the Aramaic,' but he never would show anybody the manuscripts that he translated from.” – Dr. Bruce Metzger

Of course, Lamsa makes clear many times in the introduction to his translation, that it is based on the Peshitta.

As mentioned, Lamsa-bashing has become a favorite hobby among Greek primacists due to the facts that Aramaic primacy is proving to be a great threat to their scholarship, and quite frankly, Lamsa is an easy target.

There is a widespread article about Dr. Lamsa, by John P. Juedes, which attempts to prove that Dr. Lamsa was a “cultic torchbearer” and that the Peshitta is unreliable. Just like Dr. Metzger, Greek primacist Mr. Juedes relies on misinformation:

“His anti-Greek bias shows as he repeatedly replaces references to “Greeks” with “Arameans.”” – John P. Juedes

Is this truly “anti-Greek bias” on Lamsa’s part? The fact is, the Peshitta does indeed read “Arameans” in many places where the Greek texts say “Greeks”. So Lamsa was not being biased in this instance, but was being faithful to the Peshitta reading.

This article makes many false claims about Dr. Lamsa, but admittedly, he did indeed have some questionable beliefs. But this is irrelevant to the topic of Aramaic primacy. Does a translator being “bad” automatically render the text being translated “bad” as well? That is outright silliness and unscientific – I can spend all day pointing out contradictions in the KJV and the NIV, but I wouldn’t dare use that as “evidence” that the Greek texts are a copy (they are copies, but the fact that translators are “bad” does not prove this). How can a text be criticized by having had bad translations? By the same logic, since Greek primacists believe the Peshitta is a translation from the Greek, and inferior to the Greek, they should then believe that the Greek is “bad”, because the translation and the translator/s were “bad” too. So why do even the most eminent scholars resort to such deceit? Well, how would you feel if you just realized your 20+ years of university and textual study – your whole career – was all for naught? Would you not also fight for your dignity and deny the truth, even to yourself?

That is the big danger of taking the advice of these scholars. Often, pride and politics get in the way of the search for truth, and take preference over actual evidence. “Scholarly consensus” tells us that the New Testament was originally written in Greek. “Scholarly consensus” also taught us that the Earth was the centre of the universe, the Sun revolved around the Earth, and the atom was the smallest particle of matter.

“Scholarly consensus” is meaningless. Furthermore, most of these eminent scholars would perhaps not even be considered to be “real Christians” by the majority of those who believe. Many of these scholars are highly liberal, don’t fully accept the inspiration of the Bible, believe that the Torah was compiled from many secular writings – from many different times – and believe the Bible to be full of myths. Yet these are the very people that are trusted to supply Christians with “the most accurate Bible texts”. That is akin to the widespread acceptance by Christians of the “Jewish” Massoretic Hebrew Old Testament version (which “messes around” with many Messianic prophecies, attested to by the Septuagint and Peshitta Old Testament – a topic for another day).

/////////////////////////////////////////
https://www.gotquestions.org/Aramaic-Primacy.html
"The term Aramaic Primacy is used, informally, to refer to the claim that the New Testament was originally written not in Koine Greek but in a dialect of Aramaic. This theory is more commonly referred to as 'Peshitta Primacy,' referring to the ancient Aramaic manuscripts of the Bible, a collection known as the Peshitta"
The Church of the East recognizes that its Peshitta OT is translated from Hebrew.

"Aramaic/Peshitta Primacy is primarily supported by the work of a single author, in this case, Lamsa"
That's completely erroneous. The author of that remark is either lying, or very ignorant.

"Textual scholars have examined the Peshitta and found clear evidence of influence from later translations"
Details?

"The dialect used in the Peshitta is from a later time period than that of Jesus and His disciples"
Evidence?

"The Peshitta utilizes phrases that obscure wordplay and metaphor; this is expected of a translation but not an original autograph"
Do you think extensive rhyming, seen e.g. in the Matthew version of the Lord's Prayer in the Peshitta, "is expected of a translation but not an original autograph"?

"all available evidence points to the Peshitta’s being a later translation, not an original manuscript"
What are 3 of the strongest lines of such evidence?


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 09-19-2020

_Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?: A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy_
https://pdfslide.net/documents/aramaic-peshitta-primacy-2008.html PDF: http://ia802503.us.archive.org/18/items/WastheNewTestamentReallyWritteninGreek1e/WastheNewTestamentReallyWritteninGreek1e.pdf
Appendix D – The Aramaic Peshitta Saves Faiths

Why would I drone on and on about the Peshitta’s superiority over Greek copies, when I can just let the people explain to you how their faiths were saved?

"Thanks for assisting me in my quest to figure out why there are different words between Greek-based versions. Honestly, your work and Andrew Roth’s work have practically saved me from abandoning faith in the Bible, and more importantly, the God of the Bible! I was SO sick of looking at one version of the Bible, then another, just to find completely different words being used. How am I supposed to get to know God if I can't even have His REAL Word? So, my frustration turned to anger, anger to rage, rage to wrath, wrath to disowning God. But finding the Peshitta’s Truth and its specific Truths in your work, made me just go "WOW God! I love you so much!!!" It was a crucial stepping stone to trusting God again. His Ruach started the whole thing, but coming back to Him in Truth was absolutely vital, and yes, your work definitely helped me do that! It just makes sense. And what I like about it is that it is the TRUTH, discovered by you. Finding your work was so exhilarating; it was like discovering a dinosaur of a website bigger than any previously known! No I am not that guy whose faith was saved by your work from years ago, but it goes to show you that your work has the same effect by the power of the Ruach as it did on that other guy. Due to errors in the Greek version/s my faith was twaddling in the pigpen, and I just had a burning intuition that the New Testament was written in Hebrew. After watching the Passion of the Christ, I decided to do a wikipedia search for Aramaic, and there you and Andrew Roth were!!! I actually got introduced to his work through yours, and so his tremendous help is thanks also to you!

Anyway, I poured hours into your work, devouring it and feeling my faith come alive again when reading how Alaha Abba HAD INDEED preserved something special for me after all!!!!! It was then that my faith was increased enough to pray again, and praise again, and love Him again. So, thank you for your labors, and yes you can use my testimony, as I know personally how effective they can be. That is one of the first places I looked in your work for credibility. And seeing some Joe-schmoe from China or Australia give a personal testimony rang MUCH truer to your authenticity than having a couple of well-known scholars write up a professional review for you. Thanks again for your precise mind and heart into this work, and I look forward to your completed edition. Also, my heart goes out to you, do not be discouraged. Please, see how Satan is attacking you. Your work hurts him. THE original Bible... Heck, you probably have a special satanic agent working against you!!! But be of good cheer, your persecution is of righteousness’ sake, because your labors are undoubtedly of the Ruach, and your own spirit tells me that. I just encourage you to continue living in the light, and it will eventually break through, just as dawn turns into day! You’ve helped me tremendously, so likewise I will freely help you all that I can, by proclaiming the message of Alaha Abba’s Truth. I've already shared your work, freely of course, with a pastor who loves it. I heavily recommend “Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?” It rocked my world!”
Ryan Dooley, USA

"My name is Scott and I would like to thank you very much for your web site. It started a few years ago, give or take. I was reading 2 Samuel 21:19. In the King James and most other translations today (after the Hebrew text) will either add (1 Chron. 20:5 ) to this or say Goliath did this. This might be fine for some, but not for me. The reason for this is I went to Bible College and my high view of Scripture (Some people seem to think that it's the message that counts, but my thoughts are that if the Scripture is flawed then the message might be too). As a result this GREATLY shook my faith. Those days were horrible. I never want to enter a shaking like that ever again. At the time, I had been a Born Again Pentecostal 15+ years. Next my friend picked up a book called "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D Ehrman, thinking he was doing me a favor. This once again, looked very bleak, for after I read the Introduction...I again began to feel those feelings of being shaken. I somehow came across your web site shortly there after. I began to look into it and once again I feel joyous and beautiful. My Bible has once again been given to me. I ordered Lamsa's paper back Bible and once I get it will have it rebound. Thank you for your web site, your time and patience in reading this lengthy email and strengthening my faith. May the Lord add blessing upon blessing to your life...THANK YOU.”
Scott Glenning, USA


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 09-21-2020

"Do you believe Scripture is infallible?"
No. Therein are contradictions, and therein are evolving views of the nature of the afterlife, and the nature of God, and the nature of God's requirements of humans (e.g., Jesus: 'you have heard.... But I say....').

"what appears to be contradiction in Scripture isn't"
Some of the contradictions below are resolvable by translating correctly Jesus' genealogy in Matthew from the original Aramaic, and by rejecting the Massoretic's corrupted reading and going with the reading had by the Aramaic Peshitta OT, and sometimes also the reading had by the LXX, Samaritan Pentateuch, or Dead Sea Scrolls. But other contradictions still remain.
How would you resolve the alleged-contradictions mentioned below?

https://www.gotquestions.org/Biblical-inerrancy.html
2. The Bible stands or falls as a whole. If a major newspaper were routinely discovered to contain errors, it would be quickly discredited. It would make no difference to say, “All the errors are confined to page three.” For a paper to be reliable in any of its parts, it must be factual throughout. In the same way, if the Bible is inaccurate when it speaks of geology, why should its theology be trusted? It is either a trustworthy document, or it is not.

off the internet, probably ultimately from a book:
Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
(a) God did (2 Samuel 24:1)
(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 21:1)

In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
(b) One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

How many fighting men were found in Judah?
(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
(b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

How long did he rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?
(a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
(b) Three hundred (I Chronicles 11:11)

When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
(b) Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
(a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?
(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)
(b) Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

In what year of King Asa’s reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?
(a) Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33-16:8)
(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?
(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)
(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?
(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)
(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?
(a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)
(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

How many were the children of Zattu?
(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)
(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

How many were the children of Azgad?
(a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)
(b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

How many were the children of Adin?
(a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)
(b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

How many were the children of Hashum?
(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)
(b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?
(a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)
(b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:
(a) 29,818 (Ezra)
(b) 31,089 (Nehemiah)

How many singers accompanied the assembly?
(a) Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)
(b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

What was the name of King Abijah’s mother?
(a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)
(b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?
(a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)
(b) No (Joshua 15:63)

Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?
(a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16)
(b) Hell (Luke 3:23)

Jesus descended from which son of David?
(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)
(b) Nathan (Luke 3:31)

Who was the father of Shealtiel?
(a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)
(b) Neri’ (Luke 3:27)

Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?
(a) Abiud (Matthew 1:13)
(b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i. Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v. Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

Who was the father of Uzziah?
(a) Joram (Matthew 1:8)
(b) Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

Who as the father of Jechoniah?
(a) Josiah (Matthew 1:11)
(b) Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?
(a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)
(b) But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1:12-16)

Who was the father of Shelah?
(a) Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)
(b) Arphaxad (Genesis 11:12)

Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?
(a) Yes (Matthew 11:14, 17:10-13)
(b) No (John 1:19-21)

Would Jesus inherit David’s throne?
(a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)
(b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1:11, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David’s throne (Jeremiah 36:30)

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?
(a) One-- a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). "And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it."
(b) Two-- a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). "They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon."

How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?
(a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)
(b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?
(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)
(b) On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?
(a) Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”
(b) No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”

Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?
(a) Yes (Mark 6:8)
(b) No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?
(a) Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)
(b) No (Luke 9:9)

Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?
(a) Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)
(b) No (John 1:32, 33)

Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?
(a) Yes (John 1:32, 33)
(b) No (Matthew 11:2)


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - gbausc - 09-23-2020

(10-30-2019, 01:46 AM)DavidFord Wrote: David, I noticed your notes for Col 3:6, 7.  Do you believe in Universal Restoration i.e. are you a universalist?
I've posted pro-UR material at
https://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/

I am! The Church of The East is also traditionally universalist, based on the teaching of its most prominent church father Theodore of Mopseustia in the late 4th and early 5th centuries.


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 09-25-2020

I asked somebody this:
What do you think of this rendering?:
"These shall go into the pain of the _Olam_ (the world to come),
and these to the life of the _Olam_ (the world to come)."
How would you respond to this analysis?:

_History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Retribution_ by Edward Beecher Appleton (1878), 334pp., 152-157
https://books.google.com/books?id=Kx9LZX1iP6wC
https://www.amazon.com/History-Opinions-Scriptural-Doctrine-Retribution-ebook/dp/B00LZX29G4/
CHAPTER XVIII. THE PESHITO.

Having particularly considered the testimony of Aristotle, and of classic Greek, and of the Septuagint, I shall proceed to other evidence of the meaning of the word _aionios_, as used by Christ in the judgment. This is found in the Peshito, a Syriac version of the Greek Testament, the earliest version after Christ. [Nope. The Syriac was the original, and got translated into Greek. - df]

PROF. TAYLER LEWIS.
We are indebted, for what we shall say on this version, to that eminent scholar Prof. Tayler Lewis. To see the full force of it, it is necessary to state first his own views of the word _aionios_. They are found in a profound development of the use of what he calls the _Olamic_ or _Aeonian_ words of the Scripture. He complains, and that justly, that their Scriptural use is hidden by our translation. His views will be found on pp. 44-51 of Lange's "Commentary on Ecclesiastes," and also pp. 135-143 of the "Commentary on Genesis."

VIEWS OF PROF. LEWIS.
He very correctly assumes that _aion_ has the sense of an age, that is, a period of time. He regards the boundless duration of God as filled with successive ages or dispensations. These ages were numberless before our world was created; during this world there are ages, and there will be numberless ages after its close.

SCRIPTURAL NAMES.
The usual Scriptural names of these ages are Olam in Hebrew, and Aion in Greek. These words are, in themselves, wholly indefinite, and the ages may vary greatly in length. They are not measured by ordinary astronomical computations of time, as days, months, years. (See Lange's "Genesis," p. 141, note.)

USE OF THE AGES.
Now, in this state of things, two modes are conceivable of impressing the mind with the magnitude of the duration of God and his kingdom: to use simple negations of beginning or end, leaving eternity, past and future, an undivided blank, or, to fill the mind with the conception of innumerable ages, past or future, and to reduplicate the expression "by ages of ages."

He insists upon it that this latter mode of speaking is the Scriptural mode, and that it affects the mind more with approximate conceptions of eternity than what he calls conceptionless, negative words.

NEITHER DENOTES ETERNITY.
But he insists that this use of _olam_ and _aion_, in the plural to denote ages, and ages of ages, implies of necessity that neither of the words, of itself, denotes eternity. He admits that these words are used to give an idea of eternity, as applied to God and his kingdom, while yet the ages that are reduplicated are themselves finite, but by their magnitude and number raise an impressive approximate conception of eternity. (See Lange's "Ecclesiastes," pp. 45, 50.)

RESULT.
In view of these facts we need not be surprised at finding in Prof. Tayler Lewis the following clear development of the logical result of these views. He says: "The preacher, in contending with the Universalist and the Restorationist, would commit an error, and it may be suffer a failure in his argument, should he lay the whole stress of it on the etymological or historical significance of the words aion, aionios, and attempt to prove that of themselves they necessarily carry the meaning of endless duration" (Lange's "Ecclesiastes," p. 48). What, then, does _aionios_ here mean? He says that it means _pertaining to the age or world to come_, taking _world_ in the time-sense, and thus translates the passage. "These shall go away into the punishment [the restraint, imprisonment] of the world to come, and these into the life of the world to come," and he adds, emphatically, _"that is all that we can etymologically or exegetically make of the word in this passage."_

THE PESHITO.
It is in support of this translation that he appeals to the venerable Syriac version, the Peshito.

The Peshito is, as we have said, the earliest version of the New Testament. Its value and authority it is not easy to over-estimate. Westcott says: "Gregory Bar Hebraeus, one of the most learned and accurate of Syrian writers, relates that the New Testament Peshito was "made in the time of Thaddeus (the apostle), and Abgarus, King of Edessa, when, according to the universal opinion of ancient writers, the apostle went to proclaim Christianity in Mesopotamia" (Canon, p. 259). He adds that Gregory assumes the apostolic origin of the New Testament Peshito as certain, and that it preceded all the sects of the Syrian Church, and was received and appealed to by all. How, then, was _aionios_ translated by this version? In support of his own translation Prof. Tayler Lewis says, "So is it ever (translated) in the old Syriac version, where the one rendering is still more unmistakably clear." "These shall go into the pain of the _Olam_ (the world to come), and these to the life of the _Olam_ (the world to come)." He refers to many other passages, as Matt. xix. 16; Mark x. 17; Luke xviii. 18; John iii. 15; Acts xiii. 46; 1 Tim. vi. 12, in which _aionios_ is rendered _belonging to the Olam_, the world to come. In all these cases we find in our version, _eternal life_, the same words that are used in the sentence of the judge, but in all they are rendered in the Peshito, the life of the world to come; and such, he tells us, is the rendering in all similar cases. Certainly, evidence more direct and conclusive it is hard to imagine.

AIM OF PROF. LEWIS.
We are not to suppose that so eminent an orthodox divine says these things in support of Universalism, a system which he decidedly and earnestly rejects. He says them in behalf of what he conceives to be the truth in philology, and rests for proof of eternal punishment on the finality of the whole aspect of the scene, and the absence of any reason to look for a reversal of the sentence. But he is unwilling to support what he regards as a true doctrine with false arguments. Besides the idea of finality in the judgment, he would doubtless derive arguments from other sources.

CHANGE OF POSITION.
Nevertheless, if we admit the validity of the evidence adduced by him, and certainly nothing can have higher claims to confidence than this ancient apostolic version, and the argument that sustains him seems to be irrefragable, yet it effects a fundamental change in the position of the whole question, for it is now fair to raise the question, What is the life, and what is the punishment, of the world to come? Is that punishment ultimate annihilation after deserved suffering? Still it would be the punishment of the world to come. Will it be a long-continued but remedial punishment? Still it will be the punishment of the world to come. This translation leaves the question between the three theories undecided. Eternal torment is now only one supposition out of three, and we are not by the sentence of Christ shut up to the belief of it. It may be proved from other sources. But these words of Christ are no longer the main bulwark in defense of that doctrine. So, also, the argument that the punishment is characterized by the same word as the life, loses its power to prove eternal punishment. The allegation is true. But what does it prove? Solely that, as the life is of the world to come, so is the punishment.

FIDELITY TO TRUTH.
The fact that these results conflict with the generally accepted statements of the defenders of eternal punishment should not, however, tend to produce a reaction against that eminent orthodox scholar and divine by whom they are sustained, nor against the learned, scholarly, and Christian work in which they are published.

We trust that the time will come when, in all departments of history and philology, men will write, not for denomination or party, but for the truth; when the inquiry will not be, what will this or that sect say of this, but what will God say of it, to whom all suppression of the truth and all pious fraud are an abomination.

PROPER COURSE.
The proper course to pursue with reference to the statements of Prof. Lewis is to compare them with other usages of language in the early Christian ages, and see if his results accord with general usage to such an extent as to give them an aspect of general verisimilitude. For there is something striking and peculiar in such an idea as "the life of the world to come." If this was a common mode of thought, we should be likely to meet it elsewhere. Is Prof. Tayler Lewis's view sustained by any other ancient and authoritative usage? There are many ancient creeds. Do we find any traces of it in them? Are there any facts in the writings of the ancient fathers which imply that they understood Christ to be speaking of the life and the punishment _of the world to come_, in the sentence of the judgment-day? To these questions we propose to give careful attention, for they reach the heart of the whole momentous inquiry.

CHAPTER XIX.


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 09-25-2020

'Peshitta' is both a name of a collection of NT books in Aramaic, and also descriptive.

_A Translation, in English Daily Used, of the Seventeen Letters Forming Part of the Peshito-Syriac Books of the New Covenant Writings: Which Have Been Received Throughout the East, from the Beginning, as Written in Syriac by Inspiration of God_
https://books.google.com/books?id=OEQYAAAAYAAJ
THE MEANING OF THE WORD PESHITO, as applied to these works, seems to have been that they were CORRECT. It is used in Heb. i. 8; - "a CORRECT, - a righteous sceptre, is the sceptre of thy kingdom." It is also used to express FAITHFULNESS, in 2 Cor. i. 12; xi. 3; and Eph. vi. 5. J.D. Michaelis says, "I would translate Peshito, PURE, UNCORRUPTED, ACCURATE, and suppose that the Syrians gave it this title to express their confidence in its FIDELITY." Bp. Herbert Marsh, another competent judge, has said, "It is probable that the Syrians intended to express by PESHITO, the CORRECT or FAITHFUL version." (Marsh's Translation of the Introduction of J.D. Michaelis to the N.T. 1823, vol. ii. pp. 40, 534.
....
THE TREATMENT OF THE PESHITO BY ALL THE SECTS OF THE EAST, SHOWS THEIR FULL BELIEF OF ITS DIVINE AUTHORITY. They treated it as having quite equal authority with the Greek. They owned no dependence on the Greek, and none of them in the earlier centuries held this in superior esteem. J. Wichelhaus, of Halle, in his work on the N. C. Peshito, 1850, says, "Never, so far as I know, has it been found, in the history of the Nestorians, that their learned men took any care to compare the Syriac text of the N.T. with the Greek text, and to conform it to the Greek." "The Peshito was extolled with the greatest praises. It was deemed to be that which was written in the first times BY APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY. It was called, not only ancient, but SACRED and blessed." (p. 153.) He says that to the Greek text they "paid almost no regard." (p. 187.)

Professor Dr. WESTCOTT is not very favourable to the Peshito; but even he says, "It is worthy of notice that Gregory Bar Hebræus "assumes THE APOSTOLIC ORIGIN OF THE N.T. PESHITO AS CERTAIN." (On the Canon p. 236.) He says also, "The Syriac Christians of Malabar [India] even now claim for it the right to be considered as an EASTERN ORIGINAL of the N.T......And their tradition is not to a certain extent destitute of all plausibility." (p. 233.) "All the Syrian Christians, whether belonging to the Nestorian, Jacobite, or Roman communion, conspire to hold the Peshito AUTHORITATIVE." "It became in the East THE FIXED AND UNALTERABLE RULE OF SCRIPTURE." (p. 239.)

THE CHARACTER OF THE PESHITO ITSELF IS NOT INCONSISTENT WITH THE SYRIAN BELIEF OF ITS DIVINE ORIGIN. Often, where the Greek is somewhat obscure, it gives a meaning, perfectly consistent with the context, and with the divine teaching elsewhere, which no merely uninspired translator of the Greek would have been likely or able to derive from the Greek itself. Its seeming independence, joined with its general correctness of teaching, impresses the mind with the thought that such correctness cannot have been the work of uninspired minds. When it differs somewhat in expression from the Greek, the meaning is almost always the same. There is no difference between them so great as to make it either impossible or unlikely, that both were written by the dictation of inspired men, who varied their words in the two as they thought best for the different readers of them. J.D. Michaelis, who made the Peshito his special study for many years, says that he had never found anything in it which displayed either "weakness" or "ignorance;" and that it had a claim to "profound veneration." (Intro. vol. ii. p. 41.) Dr. Stiles, President of Yale College in America, said that with him it was "of the SAME AUTHORITY as the Greek." (Dr. Murdock's Translation, Appendix ii., p. 500.)

The admission of learned men that when difficulties occur in the Greek, A REFERENCE TO THE PESHITO IS ONE OF THE SUREST MEANS OF REMOVING THEM, implies not only its independence of the Greek, but that in many cases it gives the true meaning more clearly than the Greek does. Dr. Jacob Martin, a professor in Wittenberg University, said, "When any obscurity or difficulty occurs in the Greek, to this (the Peshito] only can we with safety refer. This only, when doubt arises as to the meaning or translation of any passage, can safely and WITHOUT ERROR be consulted. By this only is the Greek text truly illustrated, and rightly understood." (Intro. to Gutbier's Peshito, p. 26.) J.D. Michaelis said that he "could consult no version with so much confidence in cases of difficulty and doubt"; and knew of "none which is so free from error." (Intro. vol. ii. p. 41.) It is difficult to account for this, upon the mere conjecture of some (in opposition to Syrian testimony that the Peshito is merely a translation from the Greek by an uninspired mind. It is admitted that the Greek is full of Syriac peculiarities, and some maintain that the Greek text shows such a degree of conformity to the Syriac of the Peshito, in things which are at variance with Greek usage, that much of the text of the Peshito must have been written first. (See Dr. Murdock's Ap.ii., p. 500.) The Syriac has certainly the appearance of being, in some places, the more independent of the two.

/////////////////////////////
​"the Church calls the Greek Septuagint original"
The Old Testament was originally in Hebrew, with a little Aramaic (mainly in Daniel and Ezra). Anybody claiming that the OT was originally Greek is very mistaken. The OT was translated into Greek over a number of years, and some of the OT books' translations are of better quality than others. In some instances, the Greek Septuagint/LXX has a superior reading to the Masoretic reading, which was monkeyed with to reduce Messianic prophecies.


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 10-07-2020

_Jesus the Jew_ by Geza Vermes (1973), 286pp., on 130-131
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jew-Geza-Vermes/dp/0800614437/
What was the Messianic hope of Israel in the inter-Testamental age? What kind of Redeemer figure was expected? 
A reliable answer is to be found in the least academic, and at the same time most normative, literary form:  prayer. In this respect, two significant sources have been preserved: the Psalms of Solomon, and the ancient synagogal prayer, _the_ prayer (_Tefillah_) _par excellence_, the Eighteen Benedictions. Their content of Messianic belief will be compared, with a view to verification, with that of a Qumran liturgical Blessing and with the rabbinic interpretation of classic Messianic prophecies. 
Psalms 17 and 18 of Solomon derive from a first-century BC collection of poems inspired by mainstream Jewish religious ideology with a pronounced anti-Hasmonean political tendency. The title of Psalm 18, as well as verses 6 and 8 (or 5 and 7), mentions God's Anointed who will be raised up on 'the day of mercy and blessing' and will use his 'rod' to instill the 'fear of the Lord' into every man and direct them to 'the works of righteousness'.  This prayer, inspired by chapter 11 of Isaiah, is preceded by the celebrated supplication in Psalm 17 concerning the coming of the 'son of David', described also with words borrowed from the same prophet and explicitly referred to as 'the Anointed'.

When The Psalms of Solomon 17 speaks of "the nations," do you think that refers to:
'the scattered, lost tribes of Israel'?
'the land of Israel'?

"4 And the kingdom of our God is for ever over the nations in judgement. ....
15 (13) Being an alien the enemy acted proudly, 
And his heart was alien from our God. 
16 (14) And all things whatsoever he did in Jerusalem, 
As also the nations in the cities to their gods.  ....
25 And that he may purge Jerusalem from nations that trample (her) down to destruction. 
(23) Wisely, righteously 26 he shall thrust out sinners from (the) inheritance, 
He shall destroy the pride of the sinner as a potter's vessel. 
(24) With a rod of iron he shall break in pieces all their substance, 
21 He shall destroy the godless nations with the word of his mouth; 

(25) At his rebuke nations shall flee before him, 
And he shall reprove sinners for the thoughts of their heart.  ....
(29) He shall judge peoples and nations in the wisdom of his righteousness. Selah.  ....
32 (30) And he shall have the heathen nations to serve him under his yoke; 
And he shall glorify the Lord in a place to be seen of (?) all the earth; 
33 And he shall purge Jerusalem, making it holy as of old: 
34 (31) So that nations shall come from the ends of the earth to see his glory, 
Bringing as gifts her sons who had fainted, 
35 And to see the glory of the Lord, 
wherewith God hath glorified her. 
....
38 (34) The Lord Himself is his king, 
the hope of him that is mighty through (his) hope in God. 
All nations (shall be) in fear before him, 
39 (35) For he will smite the earth with the word of his mouth for ever.   ....
51 May the Lord hasten His mercy upon Israel! 
May He deliver us from the uncleanness of unholy enemies! 
The Lord Himself is our king for ever and ever."

The Psalms of Solomon
https://carm.org/psalms-of-solomon
XVII. A Psalm. Of Solomon. With Song. Of the King.
17 1 O Lord, Thou art our King for ever and ever, 
For in Thee, O God, doth our soul glory. 
2 How long are the days of man's life upon the earth? 
As are his days, so is the hope (set) upon him. 
3 But we hope in God, our deliverer; 
For the might of our God is for ever with mercy, 
4 And the kingdom of our God is for ever over the nations in judgement. 
5 (4) Thou, O Lord, didst choose David (to be) king over Israel, 
And swaredst to him touching his seed that 
never should his kingdom fail before Thee. 
6 (5) But, for our sins, sinners rose up against us; 
They assailed us and thrust us out; 
What Thou hadst not promised to them, 
they took away (from us) with violence. 
7 They in no wise glorified Thy honourable name; 
(6) They set a (worldly) monarchy in place of (that which was) their excellency; 
8 They laid waste the throne of David in tumultuous arrogance. 
(7) But Thou, O God, didst cast them down 
and remove their seed from the earth, 
9 In that there rose up against them a man that was alien to our race. 

10 (8) According to their sins didst Thou recompense them, O God; 
So that it befell them according to their deeds. 
11 (9) God showed them no pity; 
He sought out their seed and let not one of them go free. 
12 (10) Faithful is the Lord in all His judgements 
Which He doeth upon the earth. 
13 (11) The lawless one laid waste our land so that none inhabited it, 
They destroyed young and old and their children together. 
14 (12) In the heat of His anger He sent them away even unto the west, 
And (He exposed) the rulers of the land unsparingly to derision. 
15 (13) Being an alien the enemy acted proudly, 
And his heart was alien from our God. 
16 (14) And all things whatsoever he did in Jerusalem, 
As also the nations in the cities to their gods. 
17 (15) And the children of the covenant in the midst of the mingled peoples surpassed them in evil. 
There was not among them one that wrought in the midst of Jerusalem mercy and truth. 
18 (16) They that loved the synagogues of the pious fled from them, 
As sparrows that fly from their nest.
19 (17) They wandered in deserts that their lives might be saved from harm, 
And precious in the eyes of them that lived abroad was any that escaped alive from them. 

20 (18) Over the whole earth were they scattered by lawless (men). 
21 (19) For the heavens withheld the rain from dropping upon the earth, 
Springs were stopped (that sprang) perennial(ly) out of the deeps, 
(that ran down) from lofty mountains. 
For there was none among them that wrought righteousness and justice; 
(20) From the chief of them to the least (of them) all were sinful; 
22 The king was a transgressor, 
and the judge disobedient, 
and the people sinful. 
23 (21) Behold, O Lord, and raise up unto them their king, the son of David, 
At the time in the which Thou seest, O God, that he may reign over Israel Thy servant 
24 (22) And gird him with strength, that he may shatter unrighteous rulers, 
25 And that he may purge Jerusalem from nations that trample (her) down to destruction. 
(23) Wisely, righteously 26 he shall thrust out sinners from (the) inheritance, 
He shall destroy the pride of the sinner as a potter's vessel. 
(24) With a rod of iron he shall break in pieces all their substance, 
21 He shall destroy the godless nations with the word of his mouth; 
(25) At his rebuke nations shall flee before him, 
And he shall reprove sinners for the thoughts of their heart. 
28 (26) And he shall gather together a holy people, 
whom he shall lead in righteousness, 
And he shall judge the tribes of the people 
that has been sanctified by the Lord his God. 
29 (21) And he shall not suffer unrighteousness to lodge any more in their midst, 
Nor shall there dwell with them any man that knoweth wickedness, 

30 For he shall know them, that they are all sons of their God. 
(28) And he shaIl divide them according to their tribes upon the land, 
31 And neither sojourner nor alien shall sojourn with them any more. 
(29) He shall judge peoples and nations in the wisdom of his righteousness. Selah. 
32 (30) And he shall have the heathen nations to serve him under his yoke; 
And he shall glorify the Lord in a place to be seen of (?) all the earth; 
33 And he shall purge Jerusalem, making it holy as of old: 
34 (31) So that nations shall come from the ends of the earth to see his glory, 
Bringing as gifts her sons who had fainted, 
35 And to see the glory of the Lord, 
wherewith God hath glorified her. 
(32) And he (shall be) a righteous king, taught of God, over them, 
36 And there shall be no unrighteousness in his days in their midst, 
For all shall be holy and their king the anointed of the Lord. 
37 (33) For he shall not put his trust in horse and rider and bow, 
Nor shall he multiply for himself gold and silver for war, 
Nor shall he gather confidence from (?) a multitude (?) for the day of battle. 
38 (34) The Lord Himself is his king, 
the hope of him that is mighty through (his) hope in God. 
All nations (shall be) in fear before him, 
39 (35) For he will smite the earth with the word of his mouth for ever. 

40 He will bless the people of the Lord with wisdom and gladness, 
41 (36) And he himself (will be) pure from sin, 
so that he may rule a great people. 
He will rebuke rulers, and remove sinners by the might of his word; 
42 (37) And (relying) upon his God, 
throughout his days he will not stumble; 
For God will make him mighty by means of (His) holy spirit, 
And wise by means of the spirit of understanding, 
with strength and righteousness. 
43 (38) And the blessing of the Lord (will be) with him: 
he will be strong and stumble not; 
44 (39) His hope (will be) in the Lord: 
who then can prevail against him? 
(40) (He will be) mighty in his works, 
and strong in the fear of God, 
45 (He will be) shepherding the flock of the Lord faithfully and righteously, 
And will suffer none among them to stumble in their pasture. 
46 (41) He will lead them all aright, 
And there will be no pride among them that any among them should be oppressed. 
47 (42) This (will be) the majesty of the king of Israel whom God knoweth; 
He will raise him up over the house of Israel to correct him. 
48 (43) His words (shall be) more refined than costly gold, the choicest; 
In the assemblies he will judge the peoples, 
the tribes of the sanctified. 
49 His words (shall be) like the words of the holy ones in the midst of sanctified peoples. 

50 Blessed be they that shall be in those days, 
In that they shall see the good fortune of Israel 
which God shall bring to pass in the gathering together of the tribes. 
51 May the Lord hasten His mercy upon Israel! 
May He deliver us from the uncleanness of unholy enemies! 
The Lord Himself is our king for ever and ever.

XVIII. A Psalm. Of Solomon. Again of the Anointed of the Lord.  ....

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The LXX is a translation. The 1611 KJV translated the 'deuterocanonical' books, which are absent from the Masoretic. In some respects, the LXX translation bizarrely is better than the Hebrew Masoretic, which monkeys with some Messianic prophecies.

What are 2 of your favorite examples of the NT supposedly quoting the LXX?
BTW, Cave 4 at Qumran revealed that there was a Hebrew textual tradition similar to what's seen in the LXX.

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"to say that the Hebrew language wasn't the commonly-spoken language is a misnomer.... to insinuate that the Hebraic language was not the common-folk tongue is derisively ludicrous"
What was the commonly-spoken language in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago?

Acts 1:19 (The Passion Translation), https://www.biblegateway .com/passage/?search=acts+1&version=TPT
Everyone in Jerusalem knows what happened to him. That’s why the field where he died is called in Aramaic[x] ‘Haqel Dama,’ that is, ‘The Bloody Field.’
x: Or “in the language of the region.” The Greek text is clear that the Jews of Jesus’ day spoke Aramaic, the language that Jesus and his apostles taught in. The Greek text transliterates the name of the field into a Greek equivalent for a Greek audience.

Acts 1:19 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana .com
and this became known to all who lived in Urishlim, and thus that field was called in the tongue of the area, Kh-q-l d'M-a, that is t-u-r-g-m-eh [targumed/ interpreted], Q-u-r-i-th D-m [Field of Blood].

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What is the position of 'Israel Only' on the ultimate extent of the realm of the Messiah? (merely over the land of Israel, and no further?)

_The Messiah: An Aramaic Interpretation: The Messianic Exegesis of the Targum_ by Samson H. Levey (1974), 180pp. On XIX:
The following is our delineation of Messianism as differentiated from eschatology.

Messianism is the predication of a future golden age in which the central figure is a king primarily of Davidic lineage appointed by God. In the period under consideration^8 [8: Roughly from the second century B.C.E. to the 9th century C.E. ....] it was believed that during the time of the Messiah the Hebrew people will be vindicated, its wrongs righted, the wicked purged from its midst, and its rightful place in the world secured. The Messiah will pronounce doom upon the enemies of Israel, will mete out reward and punishment in truth and in justice, and will serve as an ideal King ruling the entire world. The Messiah may not always be the active agent in these future events, but his personality must always be present at least as the symbol of the glorious age which will be ushered in.

The eschatological is not as limited as the Messianic. It optimistically envisages a salutary outcome of history, brought about by God himself, who will dispense reward and punishment here and/or hereafter. Included in it are various ideas that are sometimes heterogeneous without definite plan or system. The Jewish version usually encompasses the ingathering of the exiles and their return to Palestine, the destruction of the armies of the archenemies of Israel, purification of the land from defilement, the restoration of the pristine splendor of the temple, divine protection for Jerusalem and its inhabitants, subjugation of the nations to God and/or Israel, material prosperity, and peace. Attached to these may also be the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead. All this, without the involvement of the definite personality of Davidic lineage which marks the Messianic hope.

Interwoven into the Messianic picture may be any or all of the eschatological elements, sometimes also some of the characteristics of the apocalyptic, but the distinguishing feature which marks it as such is the figure of the Messiah himself.

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"the so-called 'Psalms of Solomon' are from the Apocrypha and are not Scripture"
Are those Christian denominations that consider certain books in the Apocrypha to be Scripture mistaken?
Are those ancient manuscripts that contain certain books in the Apocrypha as part of the Bible mistaken in including those Apocrypha books?

"any group that accepts the Apocrypha is mistaken"
"those books were excluded for one or more of the following reasons: (a) historical errors, (b) theology that contradicts Scripture, or (c ) the book was not written at the time or by whom it was claimed to have been written"
"The only 'denomination' I am aware of that accepts the Apocrypha as Canon is the Catholic Church"
Re: the OT, what's the 1st denomination to reject all Apocrypha books?

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"seem to be elevating yourself above the Word of God"
What is meant by "the Word of God"?
Do you think Jesus elevated himself "above the Word of God"?

Matthew 5 (NABRE)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+5&version=NABRE
21 "You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, 'You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.'
22 But I say to you....
27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
28 But I say to you....
31 "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a bill of divorce.'
32 But I say to you....
33 "Again you have heard that it was said to your ancestors, 'Do not take a false oath, but make good to the Lord all that you vow.'
34 But I say to you....
38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you....
43 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44 But I say to you....
48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

snippets of the Footnotes
5:21 Cf. Ex 20:13; Dt 5:17. The second part of the verse is not an exact quotation from the Old Testament, but cf. Ex 21:12.
5:27 See Ex 20:14; Dt 5:18.
5:31–32 See Dt 24:1–5.
5:33 This is not an exact quotation of any Old Testament text, but see Ex 20:7; Dt 5:11; Lv 19:12.
5:38–42 See Lv 24:20.
5:43–48 See Lv 19:18. There is no Old Testament commandment demanding hatred of one's enemy, but the "neighbor" of the love commandment was understood as one's fellow countryman. Both in the Old Testament (Ps 139:19–22) and at Qumran (1QS 9:21) hatred of evil persons is assumed to be right. Jesus extends the love commandment to the enemy and the persecutor. His disciples, as children of God, must imitate the example of their Father, who grants his gifts of sun and rain to both the good and the bad.

John 1 (NIV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome a it. .... 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

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When God told Peter, James, and John re: Jesus, Moses, and Elijah, to 'Listen to my beloved son i.e. Jesus,' did God undercut "the Ultimate authority" of what Moses had written?

"the written scriptures directly inspired by God. ....you do not accept this"
When God told Peter, James, and John re: Jesus, Moses, and Elijah, to 'Listen to my beloved son i.e. Jesus,' did God not-accept "the written scriptures directly inspired by God"?

Matthew 17:5 (NIV)
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

When Jesus made his 'you have heard.... But I say to you' remarks, do you think Jesus elevated himself above "the written scriptures directly inspired by God"?

//////////////////////
"do you believe that Jesus is God the Son"
Yes.
"and that he died"
Yes, and rose again.
"as a substitute for the punishment of our sinfulness?"
Reference?

"that is not a contradiction"
Who do you think prompted King David to sin by taking a census? (satan? God?)

"Satan works against the plans of God, but because God is Sovereign, everything he does actually fulfills the will of God, primarily in sifting mankind, to reveal the character of each individual. For a clear example of this, see the Book of Job"
Do you think God wanted Satan to kill Job's children?

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"the written scriptures directly inspired by God. ....you do not accept this"
Did the voice that spoke to Peter while Peter was in a trance not-accept "the written scriptures directly inspired by God"?

Acts 10 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub
9 And the next day, when they were traveling on the road and came near to the city, Shimeon [Simon Peter] went up to the roof to pray at the sixth hour. 10 And he was hungry and he wanted to eat, and as things were being gotten for him, he fell into a trance, 11 And he saw Heaven as it was opened, and a garment which was tied at the four corners like a great linen, and it was descending from Heaven to The Earth, 12 And there were in it all kinds of four footed animals and creeping things of The Earth and birds of the sky; 13 And a voice came to him saying, "Shimeon, arise, slay and eat." 14 And Shimeon said, "Never, my Lord, because I have never eaten anything defiled or polluted." 15 And a voice came again a second time to him: "Those things which God has purified you shall not make impure." 16 This happened three times and the garment was taken up to Heaven.

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What do you mean by "the Received Text"?
Do you agree with me that the 1611 KJV translated the Apocrypha?

"and then rejected it once it was recognised not to be the Word of God"
When was the 1611 KJV's Apocrypha rejected, and by who?

"the Bible is clear that God will preserve his Word (Psalm 12)"
Do you think this is true?:

Jeremiah 8:8 (NIV)
"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 05-06-2021

'hate' vs. 'set aside'

Christopher Lancaster aka "Raphael Lataster," _Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek? A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy_ (2011), 328pp.
14. Do we need to hate to become good Christians? – Luke 14:26 / Romans 9:13 / 1John 3:15 / 1John 4:20-21

Luke 14:26
The KJV says: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
The NIV says: “"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple.”

Well the problem here is that we are to “love our neighbour” and “honour our parents”.
More specifically, we are seemingly told to hate our “brothers”, while this is clearly condemned:

1John 3:15
KJV: “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
NIV: “Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.”
1John 4:20-21
KJV: “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.”
NIV: “If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.”

A similar problem occurs with Romans 9:13, where our loving God is portrayed in a different light, by the Greek.
Romans 9:13
KJV: “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”
NIV: “Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."”

Once again, the Peshitta comes to the rescue.

The Lamsa says (Luke 14:26): “He who comes to me and does not put aside his father and his mother and his brothers and his sisters and his wife and his children and even his own life cannot be a disciple to me.”
The Lamsa says (Romans 9:13): “As it is written, Jacob have I loved but Esau have I set aside.”
The answer lies in the Aramaic word "0ns" (sone'). It can mean “to put aside” and “to hate”. Clearly He is teaching that in order to be His disciple, we must be able to put aside those we love, and even be prepared to give our lives.

As this error is caused by a mistranslated word, it is an example of a semi-split word.

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"I have my proper translations in greek"
The Greek translation of the original Aramaic of the New Testament has mistranslations.
My response to Ehrman is below.  How would you respond to him?

_Jesus, Interrupted:  Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)_ by Bart D. Ehrman (2009), 292pp.  On 36, 37
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrupted-Revealing-Hidden-Contradictions/dp/0061173940/
Joseph is not Jesus' father.  But that creates an obvious problem.  If Jesus is not a blood-relation to Joseph, why is it that Matthew and Luke trace Jesus' bloodline precisely through Joseph?  This is a question that neither author answers:  both accounts give a genealogy that can't be the genealogy of Jesus, since his only bloodline goes through Mary, yet neither author provides her genealogy.  ....  Luke explicitly indicates that the family line is that of Joseph, not Mary (Luke 1:23; also Matthew 1:16).  ....
There are other problems.  In ... Matthew's genealogy .... from the Babylonian disaster to the birth of Jesus, fourteen generations (1:17).  Fourteen, fourteen, and fourteen-it is almost as if God had planned it this way.  ....  The problem is that the fourteen-fourteen-fourteen schema doesn't actually work.  If you read through the names carefully, you'll see that in the third set of fourteen there are in fact only thirteen generations.

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Matthew 1:17 says there are 14, 14, 14 generations.
Greek manuscripts of Matthew's genealogy mistakenly list 14, 14, 13 generations.
In Aramaic mss. of Matthew's genealogy, with Mt 1:16's "gbra" correctly translated as father/guardian, Matthew's genealogy lists 14, 14, 14 generations.
Mary had a father/guardian named Joseph (plus a husband also called Joseph).
Jesus is a descendant of King David on his biological mother Mary's side (per Mt's genealogy), and on his step-dad Joseph's side (per Lk's genealogy).

=============================================.
"Jesus spoke and taught in Greek"
Evidence?
The movie "The Passion of the Christ" was done in Aramaic. Was Mel Gibson mistaken in concluding that Jesus spoke Aramaic?

"and lived in Greek-speaking Judea"
Of what language is Acts 1:19's Hakeldama? (Greek?)

Acts 1:19 (Amplified Bible), https://biblehub.com/acts/1-19.htm
All the people in Jerusalem learned about this, so in their own dialect—Aramaic—they called the piece of land Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

Do you agree with me that "Talitha kum" is a transliteration of Aramaic?

Mark 5:41 (Amplified Bible), https://biblehub.com/mark/5-41.htm
Taking the child’s hand, He said [tenderly] to her, “Talitha kum!”—which translated [from Aramaic] means, “Little girl, I say to you, get up!”

==========================================.
"Peshitta translation wasn't completed until 616 by Thomas of Harqel"
The Harklean is a stilted, clearly-translated translation from Greek, and is very different from the Aramaic Peshitta. Do you think Michaelis was mistaken in having high esteem for the Peshitta?

Johann David Michaelis, _Introduction to the New Testament, tr., and augmented with notes (and a Dissertation on the origin and composition of the three first gospels)_ as translated by Herbert Marsh, 4 vols., vol. 2 part 1 (1802), 40+
https://books.google.com/books?id=Y1gHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA39
The Peshito is the very best translation of the Greek Testament that I have ever read; that of Luther, though in some respects inferior to his translation of the Old Testament, holding the second rank. Of all the Syriac authors, with which I am acquainted, not excepting Ephrem and BarHebræus, its language is the most elegant and pure, not loaded with foreign words, like the Philoxenian version, and other later writings, and discovers the hand of a master, in rendering those passages, where the two idioms deviate from each other. It has no marks of the stiffness of a translation, but is written with the ease and fluency of an original; and this excellence of style must be ascribed to its antiquity, and to its being written in a city that was the residence of Syrian kings. See Rom. ix. 20. xiii. 1. Heb. vii. 3. 8. Acts v. 37. xix. 39. xxii. 3. xxvii. 3. compared with the first section of the Curæ in Act. Apost. Syr. where I have pointed out the excellent manner in which the the Syriac translator has rendered the Greek phrases, and in the third and sixth section of the Curæ other examples are quoted.
....
Beside the critical use of the Syriac version, which will be examined in the following section, it leads us sometimes to just and beautiful explanations, where other help is insufficient, for instance Matth. vi. 7. John xvi. 2. Rom. ix. 22. xiii. 3. and confirms some ancient rites, in which we are deeply interested, such as the celebration of Sunday, 1 Cor. xi. 20. And in discovering either the meaning of an unusual word, or the unusual meaning of a common word, where no assistance can be had from the Greek authors, the Syriac version may be of singular service, as the translator was probably acquainted with the language of common life, as well as with the language of books, and is at least of equal authority with a Greek lexicon of later ages.
....
SECT. IX.
Critical use of the Syriac version.
THE chief advantage to be derived from the Syriac version is, in applying it to the purposes of criticism. Its high antiquity, and frequent deviation from the common reading, in passages of importance, must recommend the use of it to every critic, who in general will find himself rewarded for his trouble.

=======================================.
"source says, 'The dialect of Jerusalem was East-Aramæan, or, as we call it, Chaldee, and according to this dialect are written the Aramæan words that are found in the Greek Testament, for instance Acts i. 19. 1 Cor. xvi. 22. The Syriac New Testament is written in the same language, but in a different dialect. ' That's what I told you"

Do you agree with me that Greek mss. for Acts 1:19 and 1 Cor 16:22 contain transliterations of Aramaic words, specifically Akeldama and Maranatha?

Acts 1:19 (NIV)
Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
1 Corinthians 16:22 (Amplified Bible), https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/16-22.htm
If anyone does not love the Lord [does not obey and respect and believe in Jesus Christ and His message], he is to be accursed. Maranatha (O our Lord, come)!

"the Peshitta was written centuries later by translating from the Greek"
Evidence from the Peshitta that it's a translation?

"And, in dialect different from the Aramaic words in the NT"
What Aramaic dialect is here?:

Mark 15:34 (Berean Literal)
https://biblehub.com/mark/15-34.htm
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" Which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

"different from the Aramaic of the time and place of Jesus"
Reference?
"attack the Bible"
Re: Jeremiah, my response to Bible critic and ex-Christian Ehrman is below. How would you respond to him?

_Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)_ by Bart D. Ehrman (2009), 292pp., 51
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrupted-Revealing-Hidden-Contradictions/dp/0061173940/
3. _Why does Matthew quote the wrong prophet?_ When Matthew indicates that Judas betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver, he notes (as by now we expect of him) that this was in fulfillment of Scripture: "Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah, And they took the thirty pieces of silver ... and they gave them for the potter's field" (Mathew 27:9-10). The problem is that this prophecy is not found in Jeremiah. It appears to be a loose quotation of Zechariah 11:3.

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For Mt 27:9-10, Greek manuscripts have the erroneous addition that Jeremiah said a particular remark, when there's no Old Testament evidence that Jeremiah said that. The Aramaic original leaves unspecified the name of the prophet, avoiding an unnecessary contradiction:
(based on Younan)
"Then the thing was fulfilled which was spoken of by the prophet who said,
"I took the thirty (pieces) of silver,
the price of the precious one
which (those) from the sons of Israel agreed upon."

=============================================.
"Aramaic was known as the language of the Jews"
Was it the language of anyone else?

Daniel 2:4 (English Standard Version), https://biblehub.com/daniel/2-4.htm
Then the Chaldeans said to the king in Aramaic, "O king, live forever! Tell your servants the dream, and we will show the interpretation."

"That doesn't mean that it was the language was common among the Jews. It means the language was particular to the Jews"
Do you think the individuals named Rehum and Shimshai were Jews?

Ezra 4:7-8, https://biblehub.com/ezra/4-8.htm
7 And in the days of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of his associates wrote a letter to Artaxerxes. It was written in Aramaic and then translated.
8 Rehum the commander and Shimshai the scribe wrote the letter against Jerusalem to King Artaxerxes as follows:

From
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ezra/4-8.htm
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
Ezr 4:7-24. Letter to Artaxerxes.
7. in the days of Artaxerxes wrote Bishlam, &c.—The three officers named are supposed to have been deputy governors appointed by the king of Persia over all the provinces subject to his empire west of the Euphrates.
the Syrian tongue—or Aramæan language, called sometimes in our version, Chaldee. This was made use of by the Persians in their decrees and communications relative to the Jews (compare 2Ki 18:26; Isa 36:11). The object of their letter was to press upon the royal notice the inexpediency and danger of rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem. They labored hard to prejudice the king's mind against that measure.
....
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
8. At this verse begins the first long section (Ezra 4:8 to Ezra 6:18) written in the Aramaic language (see Introd.), which the Compiler has probably extracted bodily from Aramaic records.
Ezra 4:8 introduces briefly the description of the letter of accusation against the Jews sent by Rehum and Shimshai.

=====================================.
"Jesus' words in the New Testament are Greek in origin and bear no marks of being a translation from Aramaic"
So "Talitha cum," "Ephphatha," "Abba," "Raca," and "Eli Eli lema sabachthani" is Greek?

What Verses in the New Testament Are Aramaic? - Aug 2, 2019
https://bustedhalo.com/ministry-resources/what-verses-in-the-new-testament-are-aramaic
Talitha cum meaning “Little girl, get up!” (Mark 5:41)
Ephphatha meaning “Be opened.” (Mark 7:34)
Abba meaning “Father” (Mark 14:36)
Raca meaning “fool” (Matthew 5:22)
Rabbouni meaning “teacher” (John 20:16)
Eli Eli lema sabachthani meaning “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)
Hosanna meaning “O Lord, save us.” (Mark 11:9)
Maranatha meaning “Lord, come!” (1 Corinthians 16:22)

Mark 7:34 (Amplified Bible), https://biblehub.com/mark/7-34.htm
and looking up to heaven, He sighed deeply and said to the man, “Ephphatha,” which [in Aramaic] means, “Be opened and released!”

Mark 15:34 (The Passion Translation)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+15%3A34&version=TPT
34 About three o’clock, Jesus shouted with a mighty voice in Aramaic,[a] “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”—that is, “My God, My God, why have you turned your back on me?”[b]
a: The last words of Jesus were spoken in Aramaic. Every Greek text gives a transliteration of the Aramaic words and then translates them back into Greek.
b: See Pss. 22:1; 42:9. The Aramaic can be translated “For this purpose you have spared me.” [df: better: "My God, My God, why have you spared me?" as in, 'can't we just get this over with?']

Matthew 5:22 (The Passion Translation)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+5%3A22&version=TPT
But I’m telling you, if you hold anger in your heart toward a fellow believer, you are subject to judgment. And whoever demeans and insults[c] a fellow believer is answerable to the congregation. And whoever calls down curses upon a fellow believer is in danger of being sent to a fiery hell.
c: The Aramaic is raca and can mean “spittle” or “lunatic.” It is a word that could imply calling a fellow believer demon-possessed. The Greek is “worthless fool, imbecile.”

=================================================.
"Every time someone in the New Testament someone spoke Aramaic, the Jews didn't understand what was being said"
2 examples?

"Several times there's references to Aramaic, as if it's notable. But, no references to anyone deviating to Greek. Just like when you're reading common English articles, there's no mention English being used"
'Bar' appears several times in names in the NT, e.g. Barabbas (Son of the Father), Barnabas (Son of Encouragement), Bar-Jesus, Bar-Jonah (Son of a Dove), Barsabas, Bartholomew, and Bar-Timaeus. Is 'Bar' Greek?

"Do you think Pontius Pilate new Aramaic?"
I doubt it. I imagine he had a translator.

"The Jews never had any issues conversing with Romans"
2 instances?

"The Jews never had any issues conversing with... any of the numerous Jews from far off who spoke other languages (see Acts 2)"
Do you think the people that make pilgrimages to Mecca have any difficulties understanding the languages of their fellow pilgrims?

"there's no indication that Jews ever switched to Greek to communicate with anyone"
Not even Paul?

Acts 21:37
https://biblehub.com/acts/21-37.htm
(NIV) As the soldiers were about to take Paul into the barracks, he asked the commander, "May I say something to you?" "Do you speak Greek?" he replied.
(New Living) As Paul was about to be taken inside, he said to the commander, “May I have a word with you?” “Do you know Greek?” the commander asked, surprised.

===========================================.
Matthew 27 (Berean Study Bible)
https://biblehub.com/bsb/matthew/27.htm
9 Then what was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled:
“They took the thirty pieces of silver,
the price set on Him by the people of Israel,
10 and they gave them for the potter’s field,
as the Lord had commanded me.”

"Matthew 27 references Jeremiah 32"
In these verses?:

Jeremiah 32 (Berean Study Bible)
https://biblehub.com/bsb/jeremiah/32.htm#6
6 Jeremiah replied, “The word of the LORD came to me, saying:
7 Behold! Hanamel, the son of your uncle Shallum, is coming to you to say, ‘Buy for yourself my field in Anathoth, for you have the right of redemption to buy it.’
8 Then, as the LORD had said, my cousin Hanamel came to me in the courtyard of the guard and urged me, ‘Please buy my field in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin, for you own the right of inheritance and redemption. Buy it for yourself.’ ”
Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD.
9 So I bought the field in Anathoth from my cousin Hanamel, and I weighed out seventeen shekels of silver.

========================================.
"If our New Testament were a translation, then 'bar' would have been translated"
Translated from what language?
"The Jews spoke Greek, but used some loan words"
Is 'bar' as in 'son of' a loan word? If 'yes,' from what language?

"The Bible provides no hint of a translator"
Is there anywhere in the Bible where use of a translator is mentioned?

"Most Muslims who go to Mecca are fluent in Arabic"
Reference?
Including those Muslims from Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh?
Are all the Muslims who go to Mecca able to understand each other?

Which Countries Have the Highest Number of Hajj Pilgrims in 2017? - Aug 27, 2017
https://ilmfeed.com/countries-highest-number-hajj-pilgrims-2017/
Millions apply from Muslim-majority countries but due to a quota system, not everyone is able to come – the Saudi authorities usually allocate 1,000 places for each million Muslim per country.
The following graphic shows the top 10 countries who have the highest numbers of Hajj pilgrims in 2017:
1. Indonesia – 221,000
2. Pakistan – 179,210
3. India – 170,000
4. Bangladesh – 127,198
5. Egypt – 108,000
6. Iran – 86,500
7. Nigeria – 79,000
8. Turkey – 79,000
9. Algeria – 36,000
10. Morocco – 31,000
Source: Al Jazeera

"Unlike Christians who aren't even expected to read the Bible in English, Muslims expect their fellow Muslims to learn Arabic to read the Koran in Arabic. So, many of the Muslims in Indonesia do speak Arabic"
What percent of "Muslims in Indonesia do speak Arabic"? (10%?)
Is this correct?: "The bits of Quran and basic religious greetings and phrases (al-salaamu alaykoom) would be all the Arabic most non-Arab Muslims would know"

Arabic letters are phonetic, making it easy to sound out written Arabic words. But that's a very different matter than understanding spoken Arabic. Rote memorization of portions of the Quran is done worldwide by non-Arabic Muslims, but just because they memorize it, and just because they can pronounce the written words, that doesn't mean they understand it. Numerous non-Arabic Muslims 'read' the Quran without having the foggiest idea of what they're 'reading.'

Do Muslims understand Arabic?
https://www.quora.com
Most don’t, because most Muslims speak other languages. The countries with the largest Muslim populations and their languages are, according to Wikipedia: Indonesia (205m, mostly Indonesian), Pakistan (178m, Urdu and Sindi), India (172m, many), Bangladesh (146m, Bengali) and Nigeria (94m, many). An Arabic-speaking country doesn’t break into the table until a tie for sixth (Egypt, Iran and Turkey are all about 75m). I’m guessing that native Arabic speakers form only about 20% of Muslims worldwide.
Most Muslims memorize at least a couple of chapters (suras) of the Quran in Arabic, but that isn’t the same as understanding the language. The bits of Quran and basic religious greetings and phrases (al-salaamu alaykoom) would be all the Arabic most non-Arab Muslims would know, other than those who worked in an Arab country or studied the Quran and other religious literature seriously.

"They all spoke Greek, in addition to the visitors peaking their local languages"
Was a miracle involved in those gathered into Jerusalem from around the world understanding Peter?
Do you think everybody that heard Peter's speech in Acts 2 spoke both Greek and another language, i.e. the language of their region of origin?
Do you think Peter's speech was in Greek?

=============================================.
"You believe the Greek NT was translated from Aramaic"
Do you think the parents who named their children these names had Greek as their native language?:
Barabbas (Son of the Father), Barnabas (Son of Encouragement), Bar-Jesus, Bar-Jonah (Son of a Dove), Barsabas, Bartholomew, and Bar-Timaeus.

"There are a number of examples where we're told someone couldn't understand someone else"
OK.

"Peter's speech was in Greek"
Do you think that when Peter made his speech, he spoke of God freeing/loosing Jesus from "the _agony/pains_ of death"?

Acts 2:24
https://biblehub.com/acts/2-24.htm
(NIV) But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death,
because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
(NKJV) whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death,
because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

mistranslation for Acts 2:24
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_original_New_Testament_theory
When translated well it reads: "But Allaha [God] loosed the cords of Sheol [the Grave/Death] and raised him [Yeshua/Jesus] because it was not possible that he be held in it, in Sheol." The Greek versions mistranslated the word "cords" as 'pain.' (cf. Jn 2:15 & 2 Samuel 22:6) —Paul Younan

"Peter's speech was in Greek"
Do you think that when Peter made his speech, he commented:
"The Lord said to my Lord"?
"Master YHWH said to my Lord"?

Acts 2:34 (NIV), https://biblehub.com/acts/2-34.htm
For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
"'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand

Acts 2:34, https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/2-34.htm
.... Said the
2962 Kyrios Κύριος Lord
to
2962 Kyriō Κυρίῳ [the] Lord
of me Sit at [the] right hand of Me

Acts 2:34 (Peshitta Holy Bible)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/acts/2.htm
"For David had not ascended to Heaven, because he said,
"THE LORD JEHOVAH said to my Lord, 'Sit at my right hand',

Acts 2:34 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
34-35. For it was not (that) Dawid did ascend into Heaven, because he said,
MrYa said to Mari [Master YHWH said to my Lord],
Sit yourself at my right hand,
until I place your enemies (as) a footstool for your feet'.'

=====================================.
"To the Greek-speaking Jews of Jerusalem, these were just ancestral names honoring their religious heritage.... people who gave their kids Hebraic-derived names spoke Greek"
Do you think the angel that spoke to Joseph re: the naming of Jesus spoke Greek to Joseph?
'Yeshua' means 'Salvation' in Aramaic and Hebrew. What does 'Ἰησοῦν' mean?

Matthew 1:21 (NIV)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/1-21.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/1-21.htm
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus [Greek:
Iēsoun/ Ἰησοῦν], because he will save his people from their sins."

========================================================.
"It's nonsense to say that Jesus only has meaning in"
What does Ἰησοῦν mean? ('Salvation'?)
What connection is there between Ἰησοῦν and "because he will save his people from their sins"?

Matthew 1:21 (NIV)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/1-21.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/1-21.htm
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus [Greek:
Iēsoun/ Ἰησοῦν], because he will save his people from their sins."

"the angel who spoke to Joseph spoke Greek"
Do you think _Antiquity of the Jews_ by Josephus was initially written in Greek?

Flavius Josephus, _The Wars of the Jews_
perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0148
....and while their writings contain sometimes accusations, and sometimes encomiums, but no where the accurate truth of the facts; I have proposed to myself, for the sake of such as live under the government of the Romans, to translate those books into the Greek tongue, which I formerly composed in the language of our country, and sent to the Upper Barbarians; 3 Joseph, the son of Matthias, by birth a Hebrew, a priest also, and one who at first fought against the Romans myself, and was forced to be present at what was done afterwards, [am the author of this work].

Flavius Josephus, _Against Apion_
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0216
1 I SUPPOSE that by my books of the Antiquity of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus, 2 have made it evident to those who peruse them, that our Jewish nation is of very great antiquity, and had a distinct subsistence of its own originally; as also, I have therein declared how we came to inhabit this country wherein we now live. Those Antiquities contain the history of five thousand years, and are taken out of our sacred books, but are translated by me into the Greek tongue.

Josephus, _Antiquities of the Jews_, XX, XI
I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understand the elements of the Greek language … [yet] I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness; for our nation does NOT encourage those that learn the languages of many nations … because they [the Jews] look upon this sort of accomplishment as common [very lowly] … But they give him the testimony of being a wise man who is fully acquainted with our [Jewish] laws … [in contrast] as there have been many who have done their endeavors with great patience to obtain this [Greek] learning, there have yet hardly been so many as two or three that have succeeded therein, who were immediately well rewarded for their pains -- emphases added as cited in
25 Irrefutable Reasons Why the New Testament Was NOT Originally Written in Greek
https://www.biblicaltruths.com/25-irrefutable-reasons-why-the-new-testament-was-not-originally-written-in-greek/

============================================.
"errors"
Translation from the original Aramaic to Greek to English yields this rather strange remark:
Romans 5:7 NIV
Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person,
though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.

Translating directly from the original Aramaic yields a much more sensible remark:
Murdock; Lamsa
http://www.dukhrana.com/peshitta/index.php
- (for rarely doth one die for the ungodly;
though for the good, some one perhaps might venture to die. . . .
- Hardly would any man die for the sake of the wicked:
but for the sake of the good, one might be willing to die.

"When Josephus said he had trouble speaking Greek with exactness, he only meant without a Judean accent. Given that we know for a fact he wrote a lot in Greek, we know he was fluent in Greek"
Were Josephus's initial drafts in Greek?
Do you think _Antiquity of the Jews_ by Josephus was initially written in Greek?

Flavius Josephus, _The Wars of the Jews_
perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0148
....and while their writings contain sometimes accusations, and sometimes encomiums, but no where the accurate truth of the facts; I have proposed to myself, for the sake of such as live under the government of the Romans, to translate those books into the Greek tongue, which I formerly composed in the language of our country, and sent to the Upper Barbarians; 3 Joseph, the son of Matthias, by birth a Hebrew, a priest also, and one who at first fought against the Romans myself, and was forced to be present at what was done afterwards, [am the author of this work].

Flavius Josephus, _Against Apion_
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0216
1 I SUPPOSE that by my books of the Antiquity of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus, 2 have made it evident to those who peruse them, that our Jewish nation is of very great antiquity, and had a distinct subsistence of its own originally; as also, I have therein declared how we came to inhabit this country wherein we now live. Those Antiquities contain the history of five thousand years, and are taken out of our sacred books, but are translated by me into the Greek tongue.

"explain to me why there's not one remnant of Aramaic scripter from the first or second century?"

The Aramaic Dead Sea Scrolls - 11 Sept 2018
biblicalarchaeology.org
Since Hebrew was the language of Israelite tradition, scripture, and culture, some may be surprised to hear that many of the Dead Sea Scrolls are in Aramaic, the common language of Jesus’s time. .... The tally of the Qumran Aramaic texts includes more than 30 literary works, which represent about 12 percent of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

_Targum and Translation: A Reconsideration of the Qumran Aramaic Version of Job_
amazon.com
https://www.amazon.com/Targum-Translation-Reconsideration-Semitica-Neerlandica/dp/9023240170/

"explain why the Peshitta is written in a dialect that didn't exist in the time and place of Jesus"
What dialect is that? What dialects are in the Aramaic Mark 15:34?

b) Mark 15:34 (Younan)
And in the ninth hour, Yeshua cried out in a loud voice and said,
"'Ail! Ail! Lamna shwaqthani?'",
that is,
"'Allahi! Allahi! Lamna shwaqthani?'"

Note how both the first phrase and the recasting of it have "Lamna shwaqthani."
Also, "Allahi" is Aramaic for 'my Allaha,' while 'Ail' strikes me as being 'El'-- short for 'Elohim' i.e. a Hebrew term for 'God.' In the OT, both Daniel and Michael have 'El'-- short for 'Elohim'-- as part of their names.

B) Mark 15:34 (HCSB), biblegateway.com
And at three Jesus cried out with a loud voice,
"Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?"
which is translated,
"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

transliteration of the Greek transliteration of the original Aramaic: eloi eloi lema sabachthani
transliteration of the Greek translation: ho ego theos ho ego theos eis tis enkataleipo ego
Notice the stark dissimilarity of the transliteration and translation.

"produced centuries later by known translators?"
What translators produced the Peshitta?

"Why didn't the first century Christians preserve any of Jesus' words in their original language, if it were Aramaic"
There's Jesus' words in Aramaic in the NT:

What Verses in the New Testament Are Aramaic? - Aug 2, 2019
https://bustedhalo.com/ministry-resources/what-verses-in-the-new-testament-are-aramaic
Talitha cum meaning “Little girl, get up!” (Mark 5:41)
Ephphatha meaning “Be opened.” (Mark 7:34)
Abba meaning “Father” (Mark 14:36)
Raca meaning “fool” (Matthew 5:22)
Rabbouni meaning “teacher” (John 20:16)
Eli Eli lema sabachthani meaning “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)
Hosanna meaning “O Lord, save us.” (Mark 11:9)
Maranatha meaning “Lord, come!” (1 Corinthians 16:22)

"how come in the New Testament, there's not one example of anyone speaking Aramaic to a group of Jews and the Jews showing understanding?"
There's Jesus' words in Aramaic in the NT-- see above.

"there are examples of people speaking Aramaic and the Jews not understanding"
References?

===============================================.
"the Peshitta wasn't written until centuries the Greek New Testament was written"
Evidence?
"you don't accidentally translate nothing into the word Greek"
Do you think calling the woman who spoke of table crumbs 'Greek' was purposeful?

"it is unfortunate that sometimes translators drop text to remove a perceived contradiction. So, the Peshitta leaving out this detail suggests the Peshitta is the translation"
So you think the woman really was Greek?
The Peshitta says she was a pagan/heathen. Do you think she was a pagan?

"The New Testament often contrasts Jews vs. Greeks, even when the Greek nationality isn't properly meant"
When the NT refers to 'Greeks,' to what does it refer?

=========================================.
"Tatian wrote an Aramaic.... That was the late second century"
I see.
"he didn't write from an Aramaic source"
The footnotes in Hogg's translation of the 'Arabic Diatesseron' included in the Ante-Nicene Fathers series, make cclear that it was translated from Syriac/Aramaic into Arabic. Have you examined the footnotes therein?

https://netzarimemunah.org/2019/05/25/the-diatessaron/
[9] The Arabic word ordinarily means tribe or nation, but in this work it regularly represents the Syriac word used in the N.T. for ‘generation.’ ....
[14] Here and elsewhere the Arabic translator uses life, live, and give life, as in Syriac, for salvation, etc. ....
[88] So in the Arabic. It is, however, simply a misinterpretation of the expression in the Syriac versions, for at the place of toll (cf. Ibn-at-Tayyib’s Commentary). ....
[90] Lit. son-of-the-roofs, a Syriac expression (cf. § 24, 31, note). ....
[258] Lit. fattens, as in Peshitta. ....
[291] Represents a mistaken vocalisation of the Peshitta. ....
[421] Lit. The son-of-the-roof, a Syriac phrase meaning a demon of lunacy.
[422] A word used in Arabic of the devil producing insanity; but here it reproduces the Peshitta....

Concluding note in the Borgian mss. of the 'Arabic Diatesseron,' in
J. Hamlyn Hill, _The earliest life of Christ ever compiled from the four Gospels, being the Diatessaron of Tatian (circ. A.D. 160) Literally translated from the Arabic version and containing the four Gospels woven into one story_
https://archive.org/stream/earliestlifeofch00abuarich/earliestlifeofch00abuarich_djvu.txt
The Gospel is concluded, which Tatian compiled out of the four
Gospels of the four holy apostles the blessed evangelists, on
whom be peace, and which he named _Diatessaron_, that is, That
which is composed of four. The excellent and learned presbyter,
Abu-l-Faraj Abdullah Ibn-at-Tayyib, with whom may God be
pleased, translated it from Syriac into Arabic, from a copy
written by the hand of Gubasi ibn Ali Al-mutayyib, a disciple
of Hunain ibn Ishak, on both of whom may God have mercy.
Amen.

Do you think Tatian translated the 4 Greek gospels into Aramaic, and then from that translation into Aramaic compiled his Diatesseron?

Bruce Metzger, _The Early Versions of the New Testament: Their Origin, Transmission, and
Limitations_, 11-12
PDF: http://www.baytagoodah.com/uploads/9/5/6/0/95600058/new-metzger-the_early_versions_of_the_new_testament.pdf
It is evident that Tatian went about composing his Diatessaron
with great diligence. Probably he worked from four separate
manuscripts, one for each of the Gospels, and, as he wove together
phrases, now from this Gospel and now that, he would no doubt
cross out those phrases in the manuscripts from which he was
copying. Otherwise it is difficult to understand how he was able
to combine so successfully phrases from four documents into a
remarkable cento which reminds one of delicate filigree work.

"if the Greek says Jesus is in danger of Hell, so does the Peshitta"
Actually, the Peshitta doesn't: 2 different words are used in Peshitta Matthew 5:22 & 23:17. In contrast, the Greek translation uses the same Greek word, Strong's #3474.

===================================================.
According to Gorgias Press's single volume Peshitta NT (2020), 661pp., pg 63
https://www.gorgiaspress.com/new-testament-syriac-english-overview
the verb in Peshitta Matthew 21:14 can be understood either as
'they brought to him the blind and the lame'
or as
'the blind and the lame came to him.'

The Greek translator of the Aramaic understood it as the latter.
Which do you think is the better understanding?

Matthew 21:14
https://biblehub.com/matthew/21-14.htm
(NIV)
The blind and the lame came to him at the temple,
and he healed them.
(King James)
And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple;
and he healed them.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
And they brought to him in The Temple the blind and the lame,
and he healed them.

"the Peshitta was produced in a dialect that didn't exist Jesus' time"
Evidence?
"produced centuries after the Greek Gospels were written"
Evidence? Produced by who? And exactly when?

"if the Greek Matthew says Jesus is in danger of Hell fire"
That's what the Greek Matthew says.
"Jesus is not in danger of Hell fire"
According to the Greek Matthew, he is.

==========================================.
"I don't think Tatian translated the four Gospels into Aramaic and then compiled them them in his Diatesseron. I think he produced a compilation because it was easier than a direct translation of each of the Gospels"
Do you think Tatian worked with Greek gospels to synthesize his Diatesseron, and he then translated his Diatesseron into Aramaic?

"if distinct Aramaic Gospel translations existed, the Syriac Christian community would have been using them instead of the Diatesseron, and they weren't"
The Eastern Syriac Christian community had and was & is the preserver of the 4 'separated gospels,' plus the rest of the NT writings they were the custodians of, i.e. the NT except for the 'Western Five' (2 Peter, 2 Jn, 3 Jn, Jude, and Revelation).

"Wikipadia says 'Tatian's most influential work is the Diatessaron, a Biblical paraphrase, or 'harmony', of the four gospels that became the standard text of the four gospels in the Syriac-speaking churches until the 5th-century, after which it gave way to the four separate gospels in the Peshitta version.'"
Did the Syriac-speaking churches have Acts, Romans, the Pauline epistles, Hebrews, etc. prior to the 5th-century?

"why would Syriac speaking churches use a paraphrase with the four gospels combined into one book, if they had four separate gospels"
When out and about, I have a NT + Psalms and Proverbs. I don't carry a complete Bible. That I carry a NT + Ps + Prov doesn't mean I lack a complete Bible.
If a church reads every Sunday a chapter of the Diatesseron, that doesn't mean that that church lacks the entire NT.
Going thru the Diatesseron throughout the year is a convenient way to go thru the life of Christ in a year.

Books were expensive and hard to produce. It's easier to write out copies of the Diatesseron by hand than it is to write out copies of the 4 Gospels by hand.
It's easier to write out copies of the Diatesseron by hand than it is to write out copies of the entire NT by hand.
The Diatesseron was wildly popular in Syria, and there were far more copies of it in Syria than there were copies of the entire NT in Syria.

==============================================.
"where, before the 5th century were those four Gospels that you think were written in the Syriac language, in the first century, by Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John?"
Before Acts, Romans, the Pauline epistles, Hebrews, and the other NT books the Church of the East carefully copied and recopied through the years.

"why did Syriac Christians eventually start using the four Gospels"
From the outset, Syriac Christians had the 4 gospels direct from the authors' pens.

"Why didn't the rich or scholarly Christians spring for the expensive copies of each of the four Gospels sooner?"
I imagine some did.
How would you respond to this?:

J. de Zwaan, "John Wrote in Aramaic" _Journal of Biblical Literature_ (1938), 155-171, 161
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
John 13^13 Ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος is bad Greek, just about as astonishing as if one should say in English: "you cry me teacher and lord." The right word, which John knew quite well, would have been καλεῖτε. Why did he ever write φωνεῖν?

=====================================================.
Do you agree there's an Aramaism in "ἐγώ εἰμι-- ἡ ἄμπελος"?
Do you agree that "the constant use of the personal pronoun through the book" of John "is due in large part to the Aramaic participial construction which generally required a pronoun"?

John 15:5, https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/15-5.htm
Egō Ἐγώ I
eimi εἰμι am
hē ἡ the
ampelos ἄμπελος vine

James A. Montgomery, _The Origin of the Gospel According to St. John_ (1923), 30pp., 18-19
https://archive.org/stream/originofgospelac00mont/originofgospelac00mont_djvu.txt
Another frequent idiom is that of the nominal predicate,
e. g., such a sentence as “I am the Vine”. In the many cases of
this self-assertion of Jesus the wording always is,
ἐγώ εἰμι-- ἡ ἄμπελος, etc. The use of both pronoun and the predicate
verb is hardly Greek, which would generally find one or the other term
sufficient. But the usage represents a Semitism, particularly
an Aramaism, namely in this case _ena hu gefitta_, which the Greek
spells out laboriously by three words, rendering the _hu_ “it”
(literally, “I am it, the vine”, cf. the similar French idiom), by
the predicate verb.

This consideration also explains the dominant use of “I”
(ἐγώ) in the Gospel-- which I had been wont to ascribe
to the divine consciousness of Jesus, or that consciousness
as alleged by the author. But this explanation is not necessary.
John Baptist says equally: “Not _am I_ the Christ”.

It is also to be noted that the constant use of the personal pronoun
through the book is due in large part to the Aramaic participial
construction which generally required a pronoun. To take an example
at hazard: the Baptist says, 3, 28, “Ye witness that I said (εἶπον
ἐγὼ), Not am I the Christ.” WH brackets the first ἐγώ on textual
grounds, but I would judge philologically that the apparently
superfluous pronoun represents the original Aramaic thought.

John 3:28
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-28.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/3754.htm
eipon εἶπον I said
hoti [ὅτι] that
Ouk Οὐκ Not
eimi εἰμὶ am
egō ἐγὼ I
ho ὁ the
Christos Χριστός Christ

=======================
"From John 21:16 we know the Greek is the original because the Syriac lacks the vocabulary for an accurate and direct translation"
What do you think of this reasoning?:
'From John 21:16 we know the German is the original because the Syriac lacks the vocabulary for an accurate and direct translation.'

"If the Greek were the translation, it would be an accurate an direct translation of the wording of the Syriac"
The Greek translator of the original Aramaic knew the meaning of "amri [my lambs/ young sheep]" and "airbi [my rams/ adult male sheep]," but didn't know the meaning of "nequthi [my ewes/ adult female sheep]," so he rendered the Aramaic as "arnion [lambs].... probaton [adult sheep/ goats].... probaton."

"if the Syriac was the original, how does the same word, in the same context, in the same verse get transformed into two different words in the Greek translation?"
Which word are you referring to?

"you'd have to think almost every verse of the Greek New Testament is riddled with dumb mistakes"
The Greek translation of the Aramaic is a decent translation. Like almost all translations, it could use improvement.

"In reality, it's the Syriac that is off, and not because of dumb mistakes, but because of the limitations of the Syriac language"
What limitations do you refer to? Syriac has been used to compose elaborate poems that make sense when read, _and when read backward_.

===============================================.
"From John 21:16 we know the Greek is the original because the Syriac lacks the vocabulary for an accurate and direct translation"
Some people claim that the NT was originally in Hebrew. What do you think of this reasoning?:
'From John 21:16 we know the Hebrew is the original because the Syriac lacks the vocabulary for an accurate and direct translation.'

Also, what vocabulary is lacking in Syriac?

James A. Montgomery, _The Origin of the Gospel According to St. John_ (1923), 30pp., 30
https://archive.org/stream/originofgospelac00mont/originofgospelac00mont_djvu.txt
CONCLUSION
The end of my argument is this: That the Gospel of St. John
is the composition of a well-informed Jew, not of the Pharisaic
party, whose life experience was gained in Palestine in the first
half of the first century, and whose mother-tongue was Aramaic;
and that this conclusion alone explains the excellence of the
historical data and the philological phenomena of the book--
unless, indeed, with Burney, we must argue to a translation from
an Aramaic original.

"if the Syriac was the original, how does the same word, in the same context, in the same verse get transformed into two different words in the Greek translation?"
Sometimes the translator into Greek was confronted with an Aramaic word that had 2 meanings, both of which could plausibly have been intended. At that point, sometimes the translator into Greek made mention of both meanings in his translation. Other times, he selected an inferior meaning in preparing his translation-- he mistranslated.

=============================================.
Aramaic speakers to whom Revelation and Paul's epistles were written were widespread at the time, including in Greek cities.
"no one in Jesus' time/place spoke Syriac"
Not even Jesus? Not even the person who inscribed a 1st century A.D. burial box using Aramaic?

What Language Did Jesus Speak? - Mar 23, 2021; Mar 30, 2020
https://www.history.com/news/jesus-spoke-language
A first century A.D. burial box with an Aramaic inscription that reads "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." Archeologists say this box possibly held the remains of James, the brother Jesus of Nazareth, dating back to 63 A.D.
...
"He spoke Aramaic, but he knew Hebrew," Netanyahu replied quickly.
Most religious scholars and historians agree with Pope Francis that the historical Jesus principally spoke a Galilean dialect of Aramaic. Through trade, invasions and conquest, the Aramaic language had spread far afield by the 7th century B.C., and would become the lingua franca in much of the Middle East.
In the first century A.D., it would have been the most commonly used language among ordinary Jewish people, as opposed to the religious elite, and the most likely to have been used among Jesus and his disciples in their daily lives.

===============================================
"Syriac is not the Aramaic of the first century"
What's the difference?

"the Greek Christians to whom Revelation were written didn't speak Aramaic or Syriac. They spoke Greek"
Evidence?
Do you agree with me that 'amen' and 'hallelujah' are used in Aramaic?

search for 'Hallelujah' at
https://biblescan.com/search.php?q=Hallelujah
Revelation 19:3 ... And again they shouted: "Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever." And again their voices rang out: "Praise the LORD! ....
Revelation 19:6 ....like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: "Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. ....
Revelation 19:4 ....worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried: "Amen, Hallelujah!" ....
Revelation 19:1 ....I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God....

"you think a burial box proves what language Jesus spoke"
I don't think that.

"the Bible proves nothing about what language Jesus spoke"
Do you agree with me that "Talitha kum" is a transliteration of Aramaic?

Mark 5:41 (Amplified Bible), https://biblehub.com/mark/5-41.htm
Taking the child’s hand, He said [tenderly] to her, “Talitha kum!”—which translated [from Aramaic] means, “Little girl, I say to you, get up!”

"1) Aramaic made a revival as the Jews grew more intolerant of Roman occupation, after Jesus time, heading toward the rebellion of 70 AD, started in 67"
Reference for "Aramaic made a revival"?

"2) In formal and solemn cases, such as a burial box, people are less likely to use their common tongue and more like to use what they consider their native tongue"
What's the difference between "common tongue" and "native tongue"?
As which would you classify "Eli Eli lema sabachthani," which is Aramaic?

What Verses in the New Testament Are Aramaic? - Aug 2, 2019
https://bustedhalo.com/ministry-resources/what-verses-in-the-new-testament-are-aramaic
Talitha cum meaning “Little girl, get up!” (Mark 5:41)
Ephphatha meaning “Be opened.” (Mark 7:34)
Abba meaning “Father” (Mark 14:36)
Raca meaning “fool” (Matthew 5:22)
Rabbouni meaning “teacher” (John 20:16)
Eli Eli lema sabachthani meaning “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)
Hosanna meaning “O Lord, save us.” (Mark 11:9)
Maranatha meaning “Lord, come!” (1 Corinthians 16:22)

======================================================.
"if Rev 10:1 were translated from Aramaic, and if Aramaic uses the same word for either feet or legs, then Rev 10:1 would say, in Greek, 'legs like pillars of fire', not feet"
Do you agree with the Greek that there were 'feet like pillars of fire'?

"we have two choice, your argument that our Greek mss of Revelation are a result of an incompetent Greek translator. Or, Revelation was originally written in Greek and the author really meant feet"
The translator from Aramaic to Greek was largely competent. The book pronounces dire penalties for those who tamper with the text, and the translator tried mightily to do an accurate translation, even if that meant including grammatical monstrosities that conveyed information about the underlying Aramaic.
How do you account for the Greek Revelation's grammatical monstrosities?

Argument from bad Greek grammar in Revelation to it not being originally Greek
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_original_New_Testament_theory
Torrey opines that Revelation was originally in Aramaic, and points to grammatical monstrosities therein as evidence that it was not originally written in Greek:

For the Apocalyptist the language of the New Dispensation of the Christian Church was Aramaic only. It is most significant that the numerous hymns and doxologies sung or recited by the saints and angels in heaven, in chapter after chapter of the book, are composed in Aramaic (wherever it is possible to decide), not in Hebrew; though the writer could have used either language. ....

There is excellent reason, however, for one conclusion he [R.H. Charles] reaches—expressed in similar words by many before him—namely, that "the linguistic character of the Apocalypse is absolutely unique." The grammatical monstrosities of the book, in their number and variety and especially in their startling character, stand alone in the history of literature. It is only in the Greek that they are apparent, for it is the form, not the sense, that is affected. A few of the more striking solecisms are exhibited here in English translation, so that any reader may see their nature.

1:4. “Grace to you, and peace, from he who is and who was and who is to come” (all nom. case). 1:15. “His legs were like burnished brass (neut. gend., dative case) as in a furnace purified (fem. gend., sing. no., gen. case)” 11:3. “My witnesses (nom.) shall prophesy for many days clothed (accus.) in sackcloth.” 14:14. “I saw on the cloud one seated like unto a son-of-man (accus.), having (nom.) upon his head a golden crown.” 14:19. “He harvested the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress (fem.), the great [winepress] (masc.) of the wrath of God.” 17:4. “A golden cup filled with abominations (gen.) and with unclean things (accus.).” 19:20. “The lake of blazing fire (“fire,” neut.; “blazing,” fem.). 20:2. “And he seized the dragon (accus.), the old serpent (nom.), who is the Devil and Satan and bound him.” 21:9. “Seven angels, holding the seven bowls (accus.) filled (gen.) with the seven last plagues.” 22:5. “They have no need of lamplight (gen.) nor of sunlight (accus.).”

This apparent linguistic anarchy has no explanation on the Greek side. It is hardly surprising that to some readers it should have seemed open defiance of grammar, to others a symptom of mental aberration. Nevertheless there is method to it all. The more grotesque these barbarisms, the more certain it is that they are not due to lack of acquaintance with Greek.[23]

===========================================.
"Looks to me like the angel in the vision had flaming feet, flames that formed a pillar"
So you think the flames formed a pillar, but not the feet. While the Greek text says 'feet like pillars of fire.' Got it.

"thinks the legs in the vision were on fire"
No, the legs were like pillars of fire.

"the Syriac text, made centuries later, says the same thing as the Greek text"
Not exactly. Translating from the Syriac, one can sensibly translate into English 'legs were like pillars of fire.' Translating from the Greek, one gets 'feet like pillars of fire.' You disagree with the Greek, and think not the feet, but rather the flames, were like pillars.

A particular Syriac word could be rendered: hand; arm.
Another Syriac word could be rendered: feet; legs.
In Revelation, a better rendering of a particular Syriac word is not 'feet,' but rather 'legs.' The translator into Greek chose the inferior rendering, because legs are like pillars, while feet aren't like pillars.

============================================.
"your arguments that the first-century Greek New Testament is a translation from the 7th-century Syriac"
That's not my argument. The Peshitta is far older than the 7th century.

"the Peshitta here also says the same thing as the Greek, that Jesus had 'breasts', in Rev 1:13"
So you agree with me that the Greek says Jesus had breasts.
Rather than using στῆθος/ stethos/ chest, the Greek mss. for Revelation 1:13 speak of Jesus having μαστός/ mastos/ breasts.

According to the Greek mss. of the NT, Jesus is headed to hellfire, had feet that were like pillars, and had breasts.

================================================.
"We're talking about the book of Revelation. That wasn't added to the Peshitta until the 7th century"
Reference? Technically, the Peshitt_a_ lacks Revelation. The Peshitt_o_ has Revelation. The Church of the East closed its canon before Revelation became widely regarded as worthy of being considered scripture.

"the Greek in Rev 1:13 is masculine, making it appropriate"
So making a word typically used for female breasts have a masculine gender, and using the word to describe Jesus, means it's OK to say Jesus had mastos?

"the Peshitta also says breasts here"
A precise language, Greek is the language of science and math with a large vocabulary. It has
στῆθος/ stethos/ chest, and it has μαστός/ mastos/ breasts. The Greek Revelation says Jesus has mastos/ breasts.

"Rev 15:6 uses your word for chest"
Rev 15:6
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/15-6.htm
4738 stēthē/ στήθη/ chests

"So, the author, or translator as you imagine, had that word in his vocabulary. He just chose not to use it in Rev 1:13" Do you have an explanation of that?
Do you agree with this statement?: "the description τοῖς μαστοῖς in Rev. 1 about Jesus would be surprising to a Greek reader, and μαστός is not used of men in LXX or NT"

https://bulletin.equinoxpub.com/2014/12/jesus-man-breasts/
See: Jesse Rainbow, "Male μαστοί in Revelation 1.13." Journal for the Study of the New Testament 30.2 (2007): 249-253.
Aaron Christianson says: .... Fact Check!
μαστός is used of the male chest as well. Tragedies of Aescylus, Choephoroe, line 545.
LSJ'd! (and not to worry, I TLG'd it too!) Rainbow needs to be careful before he publishes something that can be refuted by checking the most popular Greek Lexicon in existence… and you should Check too! It's online, after all; no excuse not to check.
That's not to say Jesus doesn't have tits, but I don't think it's a clear teaching from this scripture. I guess we'll have to wait for his glorious appearing to find out.
....
Deane Galbraith says: ....
Hmmmmm… reading the article again, it seems that the author examines only LXX and NT usage of μαστός. Yet, he does make the more general statement that a reference to male breasts "is as striking in Greek as it is in the English", which implies a more general claim. Aeschylus is not contemporary Greek, but, you're right, I should've cross-checked against the usages.
....
Deane Galbraith says: ....
... ok, Aeschylus has καὶ μαστὸν ἀμφέχασκ᾽ ἐμὸν θρεπτήριον in Choephoroe, line 545: a nourishing breast for a baby! This is clearly a woman's breast; man-breasts do not ordinarily provide nourishment. Is this your example of a man-breast?
Yet LSJ doesn't actually cite Aeschylus as an example of the male application of μαστός, but cites Choephoroe, line 545 as a general instance of its use. For a man-breast, LSJ cites some other souces: "of men's breasts, "βάλε δουρὶ στέρνον ὑπὲρ μαζοῖο" [Il.]4.528; "βάλε στῆθος παρὰ μαζόν" 8.121, cf. Od.22.82 [μαζόν], X.An.1.4.17, 4.3.6 [both τῶν μαστῶν]." So, we have three from Homer, and two in Xenophon's Anabasis, and a total of 291 citations. From a quick survey, the mastoi seem to be overwhelmingly women's. Even the metaphorical usage refers to spherical or cup-like objects. I haven't looked at this in any detail, but Rainbow’s conclusion seems to be correct: the description τοῖς μαστοῖς in Rev. 1 about Jesus would be surprising to a Greek reader, and μαστός is not used of men in LXX or NT.

Do you have an explanation of the Greek Revelation's grammatical monstrosities?

Argument from bad Greek grammar in Revelation to it not being originally Greek
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_original_New_Testament_theory
Torrey opines that Revelation was originally in Aramaic, and points to grammatical monstrosities therein as evidence that it was not originally written in Greek:

For the Apocalyptist the language of the New Dispensation of the Christian Church was Aramaic only. It is most significant that the numerous hymns and doxologies sung or recited by the saints and angels in heaven, in chapter after chapter of the book, are composed in Aramaic (wherever it is possible to decide), not in Hebrew; though the writer could have used either language. ....

There is excellent reason, however, for one conclusion he [R.H. Charles] reaches—expressed in similar words by many before him—namely, that "the linguistic character of the Apocalypse is absolutely unique." The grammatical monstrosities of the book, in their number and variety and especially in their startling character, stand alone in the history of literature. It is only in the Greek that they are apparent, for it is the form, not the sense, that is affected. A few of the more striking solecisms are exhibited here in English translation, so that any reader may see their nature.

1:4. “Grace to you, and peace, from he who is and who was and who is to come” (all nom. case). 1:15. “His legs were like burnished brass (neut. gend., dative case) as in a furnace purified (fem. gend., sing. no., gen. case)” 11:3. “My witnesses (nom.) shall prophesy for many days clothed (accus.) in sackcloth.” 14:14. “I saw on the cloud one seated like unto a son-of-man (accus.), having (nom.) upon his head a golden crown.” 14:19. “He harvested the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress (fem.), the great [winepress] (masc.) of the wrath of God.” 17:4. “A golden cup filled with abominations (gen.) and with unclean things (accus.).” 19:20. “The lake of blazing fire (“fire,” neut.; “blazing,” fem.). 20:2. “And he seized the dragon (accus.), the old serpent (nom.), who is the Devil and Satan and bound him.” 21:9. “Seven angels, holding the seven bowls (accus.) filled (gen.) with the seven last plagues.” 22:5. “They have no need of lamplight (gen.) nor of sunlight (accus.).”

This apparent linguistic anarchy has no explanation on the Greek side. It is hardly surprising that to some readers it should have seemed open defiance of grammar, to others a symptom of mental aberration. Nevertheless there is method to it all. The more grotesque these barbarisms, the more certain it is that they are not due to lack of acquaintance with Greek.[23]

====================================================.
"Alexander the Great had Hellenized his kingdom, thus they all spoke Greek in addition to their native language. Thus the Jewish people spoke their language plus Greek"
Reference that "the Jewish people spoke their language plus Greek"?

Josephus, _Antiquities of the Jews_, XX, XI
I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understand the elements of the Greek language … [yet] I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness; for our nation does NOT encourage those that learn the languages of many nations … because they [the Jews] look upon this sort of accomplishment as common [very lowly] … But they give him the testimony of being a wise man who is fully acquainted with our [Jewish] laws … [in contrast] as there have been many who have done their endeavors with great patience to obtain this [Greek] learning, there have yet hardly been so many as two or three that have succeeded therein, who were immediately well rewarded for their pains -- emphases added as cited in
25 Irrefutable Reasons Why the New Testament Was NOT Originally Written in Greek
https://www.biblicaltruths.com/25-irrefutable-reasons-why-the-new-testament-was-not-originally-written-in-greek/

"What good would it have done to write to the Roman, Corinthian, Ephesian, and other churches in Aramaic if they were pagans?"
Are you saying the Pauline epistles were written to pagans?
"No one would understand it"
Aramaic speakers were located in those cities. Paul's letters were written in Paul's native tongue-- Aramaic-- and translated into Greek, and circulated in Aramaic and Greek.

================================================.
"Wikipedia is not a real, legitimate, or scholarly acceptable source"
Is Torrey's _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (Yale University Press, 1958) a "real, legitimate, ... scholarly acceptable source"?
What's your explanation for the atrocious Greek grammar in the Greek Revelation?


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 05-16-2021

"WHY would they write to Gentiles/pagans in a backwater language?"
What language do you consider "a backwater language"?
Do you agree with me that Paul's native language was Aramaic?
Do you consider Cornelius prior to his speaking with Peter a 'pagan'?

Aramaic speakers were located in numerous cities. Paul's letters were written in Paul's native tongue-- Aramaic-- and translated into Greek, and circulated in Aramaic and Greek.

"Textual criticism is not really debatable if someone doesn't have a background in the languages"
My response to Ehrman is below. How would you respond to him?

_Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)_ by Bart D. Ehrman (2009), 292pp. On 36, 37
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrupted-Revealing-Hidden-Contradictions/dp/0061173940/
Joseph is not Jesus' father. But that creates an obvious problem. If Jesus is not a blood-relation to Joseph, why is it that Matthew and Luke trace Jesus' bloodline precisely through Joseph? This is a question that neither author answers: both accounts give a genealogy that can't be the genealogy of Jesus, since his only bloodline goes through Mary, yet neither author provides her genealogy. .... Luke explicitly indicates that the family line is that of Joseph, not Mary (Luke 1:23; also Matthew 1:16). ....
There are other problems. In ... Matthew's genealogy .... from the Babylonian disaster to the birth of Jesus, fourteen generations (1:17). Fourteen, fourteen, and fourteen-it is almost as if God had planned it this way. .... The problem is that the fourteen-fourteen-fourteen schema doesn't actually work. If you read through the names carefully, you'll see that in the third set of fourteen there are in fact only thirteen generations.

////////////////////////////
Matthew 1:17 says there are 14, 14, 14 generations.
Greek manuscripts of Matthew's genealogy mistakenly list 14, 14, 13 generations.
In Aramaic mss. of Matthew's genealogy, with Mt 1:16's "gbra" correctly translated as father/guardian, Matthew's genealogy lists 14, 14, 14 generations.
Mary had a father/guardian named Joseph (plus a husband also called Joseph).
Jesus is a descendant of King David on his biological mother Mary's side (per Mt's genealogy), and on his step-dad Joseph's side (per Lk's genealogy).

=============================================.
"Do you read it in the original Aramaic?"
I've not yet learned to read Aramaic. I often consult an interlinear of the Aramaic.
"enjoy your Peshitta"
I do. Does it bother you at all that Greek mss. suggest that those in danger of Gehenna fire include Jesus and Paul?

Matthew 5:22 (Weymouth NT)
https://biblehub .com/matthew/5-22.htm
https://biblehub .com/interlinear/matthew/5-22.htm
But I say to you that every one who becomes angry with his brother shall be answerable to the magistrate;
that whoever says to his brother 'Raca,' [Ῥακά/ Raca: transliteration of an Aramaic word meaning "spit"] shall be answerable to the Sanhedrin;
and that whoever says, 'You fool!' [Greek: 3474 [e] Mōre/ Μωρέ/ Fool] shall be liable to the Gehenna of Fire.

Matthew 23:17 (YLT)
https://biblehub .com/matthew/23-17.htm
https://biblehub .com/interlinear/matthew/23-17.htm
Fools [Greek: 3474 [e] μωροὶ/ mōroi] and blind! for which is greater, the gold, or the sanctuary that is sanctifying the gold?

1 Corinthians 4:9-10 (YLT)
https://biblehub .com/ylt/1_corinthians/4.htm
https://biblehub .com/interlinear/1_corinthians/4-10.htm
for I think that God did set forth us the apostles last-- as appointed to death, because a spectacle we became to the world, and messengers, and men; we [are] fools [Greek: 3474 [e] μωροὶ/ mōroi] because of Christ, and ye wise in Christ; we [are] ailing, and ye strong; ye glorious, and we dishonoured;

=======================================================.
"you believe that someone in the first century translated 7th-century Syriac into first-century Greek"
I don't believe that.
"Genesis 1:1 says 'gods' created the heaven and the earth. That's monstrous Hebrew, using a plural for a singular entity. Right?"
I know little about Hebrew. Is that bad Hebrew grammar?

"Perhaps it was written in a cave, by an uneducated fisherman in a world with little opportunity to read and write, but still written in Greek?"
The Greek Revelation displays good Greek grammar in places, and displays a large and precise Greek vocabulary. Do you think it was written by someone who was uneducated?

"even if I agreed about the 'monstrous' writing, these aren't the kinds of errors a poor translator would make"
The translator of the original Aramaic Revelation into Greek was competent, but he on occasion dispensed with proper Greek grammar in certain locations in pursuit of a rendition that would retain specific information present in the original Aramaic. The book's 'change this, and you're cursed' warning weighed heavily on his mind.

"claims that the Greek in Revelation being 'monstrous.'"
The Greek grammar of the Greek Revelation most definitely is monstrous.

"even if you had a valid case that the Greek in Revelation were poor"
The Greek of the Greek Revelation is 'translation Greek' translated from Aramaic.
What's your explanation for the Greek Revelation's "astonishing 'offenses against grammar'"?

Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958), was at the now-defunct https://www.preteristarchive .com/1958_torrey_the-apocalypse-of-john/
For the Apocalyptist the language of the New Dispensation of the Christian Church was Aramaic only. It is most significant that the numerous hymns and doxologies sung or recited by the saints and angels in heaven, in chapter after chapter of the book, are composed in Aramaic (wherever it is possible to decide), not in Hebrew; though the writer could have used either language. ....

The language of the "Revelation of John" has offered one of the most perplexing problems of biblical study. Its author is, on the one hand, a master of Greek and a man of learning: on the other hand, one who writes in an idiom which is not Greek but Semitic, and whose work swarms with major offenses against Greek grammar.

As for the mastery of Greek, it seems at the outset to be shown by the vocabulary of the book. See the details given in Swete's Apocalypse of St John, pp. cxv ff. It is a large vocabulary containing many unusual words, all handled with certainty: employing a great variety of verbs and verbal compounds, all so used as to give the precise shade of meaning desired in each case. As modern commentators agree, the author of the book was a master of Hebrew and made his own translations for that language in his multitudinous allusions to the Old Testament. These translations, without exception, are the work of a scholar who evidently was at least as thoroughly at home in Greek as in Hebrew. They are as accurate, concise, and skillfully fashioned, word on word, as those of any translator. ....

To all appearance, thus far, the Greek of Revelation is the work of a linguist of skill and erudition; why, then, the astonishing "offenses against grammar"? This peculiarity has been a source of great interest and perplexity since the earliest times. ....

For the truth is that the Book of Revelation was written in a Semitic language, and the Greek translation which alone has been preserved is a remarkably close rendering of the original.
Reason for extraordinary faithfulness on the part of a translator is given in 22:18f.:
I testify to every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city.
Here is the warning to any interpreter. The last degree of exactness in reproducing both words and idioms is plainly prescribed, and this is what we see attempted in our curious Greek. In fact, underlying all of the amazing solecisms is seen the wording of the Semitic original. The grammatical monstrosities, recognized in their true nature, testify to the execution of a definite purpose carried through with remarkable consistency. When they are examined, they are found to show grammatical appreciation rather than the lack of it. But it is Aramaic grammar!
(Nevertheless, the ideal of a thoroughly accurate translation was incapable of realization, as we know to our sorrow. No Greek translator of an unpointed Semitic text of the extent of this apocalypse could possibly come through without his considerable sheath of mistranslations. We have no knowledge of any such faultless―or even nearly faultless―achievement.*)

What the Greek translator of Revelation does, in the effort to be exactly faithful, is merely an exaggeration of what is regularly and constantly done in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The translators rendered as they did because of the conception of their task. They were handing down works of high importance, and would assume no unnecessary responsibility. What they―each and all―aimed at was to produce a text which could be understood by the Greek reader and at the same should mirror faithfully every word and phrase of the sacred original. This, the original, was the all-important thing, and the fact was always kept in view. The style of the translation was of no consequence; it was not Greek, nor ever intended to be.
*See Our Translated Gospels [by Torrey], chapter 1; The Four Gospels [by Torrey], pages 265-74.

=====================================================.
"idioms come from culture, not language"
They're expressed using language.
"The quality Greek in Revelation is irrelevant... to whether the Greek is original or a translation"
Is the quality of Burkitt's English here irrelevant to whether the English is original or a translation?:

Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (Yale University Press, 1958).
Professor F. C. Burkitt added to his edition of the Old Syriac Gospels (Evangelion da-Mepharesche; Cambridge University Press, 1904) an English version. Text and translation are printed on opposite pages so that facing each Syriac verse is its English rendering, the latter being as literal as possible. The purpose of this was to enable the student who is ignorant of Syriac to know just what it says in each verse. I will give here examples of this translation-English in sufficient number to form a true picture of the method and to include a sufficient variety of the foreign idioms.

Matt. 5:13. If salt lose its savor and become foolish, wherewith shall it be salted?
6:27. Which of you can add unto his stature one cubit, that about clothing you are anxious? (This, to be sure, is mistranslation of the Syriac, though verbally exact.)
8:14. He saw his mother-in-law lying down and a fever holding her.
8:23. He went up into a boat and his disciples were coming after him.
11:26. Yea, my Father, that so was the will before thee.
15:22. A certain woman … was crying out and saith, Have compassion on me.
16:23. Jesus rebuked him, even Simon.
17:19. They drew near and say to him between themselves and him.
19:9. He that leaveth his wife without a word of adultery.
19:12. He that is capable in power to endure, let him endure.
19:19. Be loving to thy neighbor as thyself.
22:19. And they themselves brought near to him a denar.
23:14. Ye eat up the houses of widows in the pretext that ye are lengthening your prayers.

Mark 14:68. I am not acquainted with what thou sayest.
16:8. To no one aught said they, because they had been afraid.
Luke 9:51. He prepared his countenance to go to Jerusalem. Verse 53, “His countenance for Jerusalem was set to go.
13:13. And straightway her stature was stretched out.
15:3. He saith to them himself this similitude.
15:13. He scattered his property on foods which are not fitting.
20:23. And he himself perceived their ill-will.
John 5:35. Ye wished to make your boast for the hour in his light.
7:24. Do not be judging by faces and faces.
8:38. I, that which I have seen by my Father, I do.
9:11. Go, wash they face with a baptism of Shiloah.
10:24. Till when art thou taking up our breath?
14:13. If ye are loving to me, keep my commandments.

Now Professor Burkitt was not a half-trained writer of English, nor was he indifferent to the requirements of grammar and style. He “thought in Syriac,” indeed, in the sense that he reproduced faithfully and skillfully the idioms of the original. The expert scholar can see the Syriac, word by word and phrase by phrase, underlying his version. The verbal form was the important thing: exactly as illustrated in the LXX, the Gospels, and the Apocalypse, translations of scripture believed to have been divinely inspired. The more barbarous the idiom and the more improbable the reading, the easier (of course) to discern exactly the original text that was rendered.

"Revelation isn't written in 'monstrous' Greek, but in a spoken style"
So the Greek in Greek Revelation 17:4 is typical for spoken Greek?

Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (Yale University Press, 1958).
17:4 (SBL Greek) [NRSV: The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her fornication].
This passage is a remarkable specimen of the method of the too-cautious translator. It illustrates the recognition of an untranslated dī (as shown above in numerous examples), and also, in two other particulars, loyalty to the Aramaic at the expense of the Greek. “The woman was clothed in purple . . . holding in her hand a golden cup (potērion chrysoun [ποτήριον χρυσοῦν]) filled (gemon! [γέμον]) with abominations and the unclean things (bdelygmatōn kai ta akatharta! [βδελυγμάτων καὶ τὰ ἀκάθαρτα]),” etc. A wild bit of Greek, but produced with full knowledge and a definite plan. The editions have gemon [γέμον], but this is correction. The Greek participle translates Aramaic dī mᵉlɔʾ, and “cup” (kɔs) is masculine; gémōn therefore is the only reading that can accomplish the translator’s purpose (see above). The sense of the passage is not harmed.

"What about the Greek in Revelation reflects language constraints and range of Syriac?"
I don't understand the question.

"I've shown you how the Syriac looks like a translation from Greek"
I don't recall that being shown. What did you say?

=============================.
When do you think Revelation 1st existed in Aramaic?
Do you agree with Etheridge that ".... All these authors wrote in Syriac ; and the references they make to the Revelation strongly indicate the existence, so far back as the earliest of them, of a version of the book in that language"?

John Wesley Etheridge, _The Apostolical Acts and Epistles, from the Peschito, or Ancient Syriac: To which are Added, the Remaining Epistles, and the Book of Revelation, after a later Syrian text: Translated, with Prolegomena and Indices_ (1849)
https://archive.org/details/apostolicalacts00ethegoog/page/n17/mode/2up
Thus the Apocalypse is cited by Jacob of Edessa, though in a version different from the Syrian one now extant and with the origin or fate of which I am not acquainted; and by Ephrem, in the fourth century ; a hundred years earlier, by Hippolytus, a Bishop of Aden, who formally maintained its authority against the objections of Caius ; and earlier still, in the second century, Theophilus of Antioch, in his controversy with Hermogenes, appealed to it as an inspired book. All these authors wrote in Syriac ; and the references they make to the Revelation strongly indicate the existence, so far back as the earliest of them, of a version of the book in that language. In like manner St. Ephrem quotes the Second of Peter, and the Third of John, and the whole of the Epistle of Jude. We admit that it cannot be demonstrated that there was a Syriac version of these books then extant ; but as the fact of such quotations in the works of Syrian writers must be considered a presumption in the affirmative, so the manner in which they are cited leaves no doubt as to the supreme estimate of their authority entertained by the writers themselves.

Eusebius (c. A.D. 260-339), book 4, chapter 24, Theophilus Bishop of Antioch
https://onlineancientwitness.wordpress.com/eusebius-church-history-book-4/
1. Of Theophilus, whom we have mentioned as bishop of the church of Antioch, three elementary works addressed to Autolycus are extant; also another writing entitled _Against the Heresy of Hermogenes_, in which he makes use of testimonies from the Apocalypse of John, and finally certain other catechetical books.

=============.
It was known long ago that the Greek Revelation contains "not accurate Greek, but... uses barbarous idioms, and, in some places, solecisms"-- see Eusebius, quoting Dionysius of Alexandria in paragraph 26:

Eusebius (c. A.D. 260-339), book 7, chapter 25, The Apocalypse of John
https://onlineancientwitness.wordpress.com/eusebius-church-history-book-7/#e7.25
1. Afterward he speaks in this manner of the Apocalypse of John. ....
16. But I think that he was some other one of those in Asia; as they say that there are two monuments in Ephesus, each bearing the name of John.
17. And from the ideas, and from the words and their arrangement, it may be reasonably conjectured that this one is different from that one. ....
22. But the Apocalypse is different from these writings and foreign to them; not touching, nor in the least bordering upon them; almost, so to speak, without even a syllable in common with them.
23. Nay more, the Epistle- for I pass by the Gospel- does not mention nor does it contain any intimation of the Apocalypse, nor does the Apocalypse of the Epistle. But Paul, in his epistles, gives some indication of his revelations, though he has not written them out by themselves.

24. Moreover, it can also be shown that the diction of the Gospel and Epistle differs from that of the Apocalypse.
25. For they were written not only without error as regards the Greek language, but also with elegance in their expression, in their reasonings, and in their entire structure. They are far indeed from betraying any barbarism or solecism, or any vulgarism whatever. For the writer had, as it seems, both the requisites of discourse-that is, the gift of knowledge and the gift of expression-as the Lord had bestowed them both upon him.

26. I do not deny that the other writer saw a revelation and received knowledge and prophecy. I perceive, however, that his dialect and language are not accurate Greek, but that he uses barbarous idioms, and, in some places, solecisms.
27. It is unnecessary to point these out here, for I would not have any one think that I have said these things in a spirit of ridicule, for I have said what I have only with the purpose of showing clearly the difference between the writings.

===============================================.
"you think Revelation was translated into 1st-century Greek from 7th-century Syriac, in the first century"
I don't think that. But perhaps there's a desire to have a strawman to beat up.

"from 7th-century Syriac"
Revelation in Aramaic existed long before the 7th century:

John Wesley Etheridge, _The Apostolical Acts and Epistles, from the Peschito, or Ancient Syriac: To which are Added, the Remaining Epistles, and the Book of Revelation, after a later Syrian text: Translated, with Prolegomena and Indices_ (1849)
https://archive.org/details/apostolicalacts00ethegoog/page/n17/mode/2up
Thus the Apocalypse is cited by Jacob of Edessa, though in a version different from the Syrian one now extant and with the origin or fate of which I am not acquainted; and by Ephrem, in the fourth century ; a hundred years earlier, by Hippolytus, a Bishop of Aden, who formally maintained its authority against the objections of Caius ; and earlier still, in the second century, Theophilus of Antioch, in his controversy with Hermogenes, appealed to it as an inspired book. All these authors wrote in Syriac ; and the references they make to the Revelation strongly indicate the existence, so far back as the earliest of them, of a version of the book in that language.

"it was written in a time without rigorous standards of writing"
Greek is a very exact language.

"alleged idioms and solecisms are not evidence that something is a product of a translation.... Revelation is... written using conversational Greek"
Do you agree with Charles Torrey and Stephen Broyles and Dionysius of Alexandria that the Greek Revelation contains solecisms?

Solecisms in the book of Revelation - 2017
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/solecisms-in-the-book-of-revelation.8005493/

The Scribes and the Book of Revelation: How Do You Copy a Book Full of Bad Grammar? - by Stephen Broyles
http://andreascenter.org/Articles/Scribes%20and%20Revelation%202.htm
2. Barbarisms and Solecisms ....
These two examples show that the author spoke Greek as a second language. They are actually perfect Hebrew, except for the Greek words. So whoever the author was, it is pretty clear that he was Jewish. ....
Here is the point. A solecism is a violation of these rules of agreement, and the author of Revelation violates them abundantly. ....
4. How Do You Copy a Book Full of Bad Grammar?
There are plenty more barbarisms, but let us move on and have a look at a few solecisms.

Eusebius (c. A.D. 260-339), book 7, chapter 25, The Apocalypse of John
https://onlineancientwitness.wordpress.com/eusebius-church-history-book-7/#e7.25
1. Afterward he speaks in this manner of the Apocalypse of John. ....
26. I [Dionysius of Alexandria] do not deny that the other writer saw a revelation and received knowledge and prophecy. I perceive, however, that his dialect and language are not accurate Greek, but that he uses barbarous idioms, and, in some places, solecisms.

=================================.
"from 7th-century Syriac"
When do you think the Aramaic seen in the Crawford Revelation was originally composed?

John Gwynn, _The Apocalypse of St. John in a Syriac version hitherto unknown, ed. from a MS. in the Library of the Earl of Crawford and Balcarres, with critical notes on the Syriac text, and an annotated reconstruction of the underlying Greek text_ (1897), xviii-xix
https://archive.org/details/apocalypseofstjo00gwynuoft
https://archive.org/stream/apocalypseofstjo00gwynuoft/apocalypseofstjo00gwynuoft_djvu.txt
The Greek of the Apocalypse, above all other New Testament writings, has a Semitic cast, and therefore is capable of idiomatic, while exact, reproduction in a Semitic tongue, such as no effort of a translator could attain in rendering the Epistles in question, or any other part of the New Testament. Compared with the Peshitto proper, it will be found to rival it in vernacular propriety, while giving a closer rendering of the Greek : compared with the Apocalypse of the printed texts, its superiority in purity of idiom, maintained without sacrifice of fidelity to its original, will be apparent.

That the present version deserves the twofold praise I claim for it-- of faithfulness at once to the Greek original and to the Syriac idiom-- will, I believe, be agreed by all competent critics who examine its text as printed at the close of the second Part of the present volume. It is so exact, that in comparing it with the original, no difficulty will be found in determining what reading of the Greek the translator had before him, except in cases where the deficiencies of the Syriac language-- its want of case-endings, its poverty of verbal forms, or the like-- make the discrimination between two or more rival readings impossible : while at the same time it is so idiomatic, that no instance will be met with in which he has sacrificed vernacular propriety for the sake of precise literalness of rendering. His scrupulous fidelity to the substance of the Greek has nowhere betrayed him into the adoption or imitation of Greek constructions, by which the Syriac of the other version of the Apocalypse (in common with the Harkleian) is systematically debased. With him, every word, as well as every phrase, is, with rare exceptions, represented by a purely Syriac equivalent ; and the expedient of naturalizing Greek words, adapted or transliterated, is resorted to only in the two extreme cases-- of words which have absolutely no Syriac equivalent, such as ... (xxi. 20)-- and of words which, by the usage of good writers, have been admitted into the Syriac vocabulary, such as ..., ..., ... (xi. 19, xiv. 20, vi. 11) ; to which are, perhaps, to be added some words of doubtfully Greek origin, such as ..., ... (viii. 11, xi. 9) and some names of precious stones in xxi. 19, 20, and elsewhere. But this practice is with him less frequent than even in the Peshitto New Testament. It is to be added, that he steadfastly avoids the fault of most Syriac translators-- the only one justly chargeable as habitual against the Peshitto, of a tendency to amplification and paraphrase.

The result is, that it would be difficult for a reader unacquainted with the Greek of the Apocalypse to discover that he had here before him a translation, and not an original document. This is so partly, no doubt, in consequence of the character, already noticed, of the Greek, which being of Semitic rather than Hellenic cast, passes naturally, and without reluctance, into Syriac. But any scholar who compares this with the other Syriac version of the Apocalypse, marked as the latter is by a perpetual graecizing of diction and construction, will soon satisfy himself that the purity and idiomatic propriety which, in this version, are combined with close fidelity of rendering, are largely due to the happy method and skill of the translator, and not by any means altogether to the character of the Book with which he had to deal.

=======================================================.
"the earliest known version of Revelation into the Syriac language was translated in the 7th century"
What's the age of the earliest known version of Revelation in Greek?

"the unsupported claim of having had access is pathetically weak argument for an earlier Syriac translation. Why don't you quote Theophilus of Antioch revealing he had access to a full Syriac text of Revelation. How do you know he didn't translate a few verses himself for personal use?"
I don't.

"no one in the Bible spoke the Syriac language"
Not even Jesus, who spoke "Talitha cum," "Ephphatha," "Abba," "Raca," "Amen," and "Eli Eli lema sabachthani"?

What Verses in the New Testament Are Aramaic? - Aug 2, 2019
https://bustedhalo.com/ministry-resources/what-verses-in-the-new-testament-are-aramaic
Talitha cum meaning “Little girl, get up!” (Mark 5:41)
Ephphatha meaning “Be opened.” (Mark 7:34)
Abba meaning “Father” (Mark 14:36)
Raca meaning “fool” (Matthew 5:22)
Rabbouni meaning “teacher” (John 20:16)
Eli Eli lema sabachthani meaning “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)
Hosanna meaning “O Lord, save us.” (Mark 11:9)
Maranatha meaning “Lord, come!” (1 Corinthians 16:22)

I agree that the Harklean version of Revelation is a translation from Greek. The Crawford mss. of Revelation is in Aramaic; do you think it was translated from Greek? If 'yes,' what leads you to think that?

=============================================.
Do you think Revelation 1:4 originally had:
"God"?
"Him"? (the Crawford ms. contains "Him")

Revelation 1:4 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+1%3A4&version=HCSB
John: To the seven churches in Asia. Grace and peace to you from[a] the One who is, who was, and who is coming; from the seven spirits before His throne;
a: Other mss add God

Aramaic to Dutch to (via Google translate) English, dukhrana.com
Revelation 1:4 - John, to the seven churches in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is, and which was, and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before his throne,
Him - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and the Greek TR and NA28. The reading of the Greek MHT is "God."

=========================================.
Do you think Revelation 1:5 originally had:
"has washed us"?
"has set us free"? (the Crawford ms. contains "loosed")
"To Him who has loved us"?
"To Him who loves us"? (the Crawford ms. contains "who loves us")

Revelation 1:5 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+1%3A5&version=HCSB
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has set us free[a] from our sins by His blood,
a: Other mss read has washed us

interlinear of Crawford Rev 1:5
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Revelation+1:5&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
CAL on the Aramaic word in question
http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr=2:22355&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&source=ubs&size=125%25

Aramaic to Dutch to (via Google translate) English, dukhrana.com
Revelation 1:5 - and from Jesus Christ, the Faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, the Prince of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has redeemed us from our sins through His blood,
loves - this rendering conforms to the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek MHT and NA28, but the reading of the Greek TR and various other manuscripts reads: "has loved".

==================================.
Do you think Revelation 1:6 originally had:
"made us to be a kingdom [and] priests"?
"made us a priestly kingdom"? (the Crawford ms. contains the latter)
"to the ages, amen"?
"to the ages of the ages, amen"?
"to the age (of) ages, continuing"? (the Crawford ms. contains the latter. 'Amen' is an Aramaic word that here means 'continuing.' The Greek NT contains numerous transliterations of the Aramaic 'amen.')

Revelation 1:6
https://biblehub.com/revelation/1-6.htm
(NIV) and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
(Berean Literal) and He has made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion to the ages of the ages. Amen.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And he has made us The Priestly Kingdom to God and his Father; to him be glory and Empire to the eternity of eternities. Amen.

Aramaic to Dutch to (via Google translate) English, dukhrana.com
Revelation 1:6 -- He (it is) who has made us a priestly kingdom before GOD and His Father -, to Him (is) the glory and the dominion for all eternity. Amen!
to a priestly kingdom for his GOD and Father - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek MHT and TR reads, "for a kingdom, for priests to GOD his Father." In the reading of the Greek NA28 the words follow: "for his GOD and Father".

until all eternity - this is the translation of the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta which literally says: 'to the eternity of the eternities' or 'to the century of the ages', the 'era' that transcends all eras, so by us translated as: 'forever and ever'. The phrase is characteristic of the book of Revelation and appears 13 times in this book of the Bible. There are many Greek manuscripts that read only "(until) forever". In the Peshitta we find in Op. 14:6 we still find the expression "the everlasting Good News."

Greek texts, interlinear of Revelation 1:6
https://biblehub.com/texts/revelation/1-6.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/1-6.htm

=========================================.
Do you think Rev 1:8, 1:11, 21:6, and 22:13 originally:
a) had "Alpha... Ὦ"?
had "Aleph... Tav"? (the Crawford ms. contains "Tav" in Rev 1:8, 21:6, and 22:13)
b) had "the Beginning and the End"?
lacked "the Beginning and the End"? (the Crawford ms. lacks that)
c) had "Kyrios/ Κύριος/ Lord"?
had "MrYa"? (the Crawford ms. contains MrYa, which is short for "Master YHWH")
d) lacked "God"?
had "God"? (the Crawford ms. contains 'God')

Revelation 1:8
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/1-8.htm
Egō/ Ἐγώ/ I
eimi/ εἰμι/ am
to/ τὸ/ the
Alpha/ Ἄλφα
kai/ καὶ/ and
to/ τὸ/ the
Ō/ Ὦ
....
legei/ λέγει/ says
Kyrios/ Κύριος/ Lord
ho/ ὁ/ the
Theos/ Θεός/ God

Ὦ (Ō) — 4 Occurrences
https://biblehub.com/greek/o__5598.htm
Revelation 1:8
Revelation 1:11
Revelation 21:6
Revelation 22:13

Aramaic to Dutch to (via Google translate) English, dukhrana.com
Revelation 1: 8 - I am the Aleph and the Tav, (the beginning and the ending), saith the LORD GOD, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
the Alef and the Tav - these are the first and the last letter of the Aramaic alphabet. In the Greek text we read: the Alpha and the Omega ", where the Alpha is written in full, while the Omega is in the text as a single, loose Greek letter. In itself that is a somewhat strange combination. In the Aramaic Peshitta we read: "aléf" af téu ", which is translated: "the aleph, also the tav", i.e. the Aramaic letters that come at the beginning and end of the Aramaic (‹ and Hebrew ›) alphabet. Both letters are written in full. ....

the Beginning and the End - only in the Greek TR we find these words, but they are a suitable clarification of the for many readers strange Aramaic letters 'Alef' and 'Tav' and the equally strange Greek letters 'Alpha' and 'Omega' .

the LORD - in capital letters because in the Aramaic Peshitta here the Aramaic name stands for YaHWeH, namely "Mar-Jah". This name occurs 239 times in the Aramaic Peshitta in the NT of which 14 times in the book of Revelation, the last time in Op. 22:20 where the Name is very special combined with the name of Jesus, so "the LORD Jesus". The Name does not appear in the following NT-isch books of the Peshitta: Galatians, 1 Thessalonians, Titus, Philemon and 1st and 2nd letters of John.
GOD - only in the reading of the reading of the Greek TR the name "GOD" is missing.

==========================================.
Do you think Rev 1:9 originally:
a) had "kingdom"?
lacked "kingdom"? (the Crawford ms. lacks "kingdom")

b) had "testimony of Jesus"?
had "testimony of Jesus Christ"? (the Crawford ms. has "testimony of Jesus Christ")

Revelation 1:9
http://biblehub.com/revelation/1-9.htm
(NIV) I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) I Yohannan am your brother and companion in suffering and in the patience which is in Yeshua. I was in the island that is called Patmos, because of the word of God and because of the testimony of Yeshua The Messiah.

Aramaic to Dutch to (via Google translate) English, dukhrana.com
Revelation 1:9 - I John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and in the endurance in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos, for the Word of GOD and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
in the persistence of Jesus - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "In the Kingdom and in the endurance of Jesus." The word "Kingdom" is therefore missing from the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta. ....
the testimony of Jesus Christ - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and the Greek MHT and TR. The reading of the Greek NA28 is: "Jesus."

==========================.
Do you think Rev 1:10 originally had:
"on the Lord's Day"?
"on the first day of the week"? (the Crawford ms. has "on the first day of the week")

What do you think the Greek mss.'s "on the Lord's Day" refers to?

Revelation 1:10
https://biblehub.com/revelation/1-10.htm
(NIV) On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And I was in The Spirit on the first day of the week, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

Revelation 1:10 - I was in the Spirit on the first day of the week and I heard behind me a loud voice like a [ram's horn],
on the first day of the week - this is the unique reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "in the day of the Lord", but with that translation it should be noted that the Greek expression || "εν τη κυριακη ημερα" || literally means "in the day that belongs to the Lord." This can be understood in different ways, namely as:

- (‹1›) "the Sunday", the day on which Christ rose. This is traditionally the day on which the congregation met, but then probably on the Saturday evening, which among the Jews was regarded as the beginning of the new week and as the beginning of the first day of the week (‹see Acts 20: 7 where that is clearly legible›). Incidentally, it was not customary to refer to the first day of the week as the day of the Lord, even though the same word comes 'Lordly', ie 'belonging to the Lord' (‹in the inflection 'kuriakon'›), but in connection with the Lord's Supper (‹ie 'the meal which belongs to the Lord'›) in 1 Cor. 11:20. Since we do not find this expression for "the first day of the week" elsewhere in the Greek NT, we must be careful about hasty conclusions. If the Greek were a translation of the Aramaic, the translator may have tried to add something extra in his translation about the importance of the day.

- (‹2›) Sunday as the day of the emperor, "domingo", because the Greek word "kuriakè" was often used in the sense of "imperial". The designation would then refer to an important day in the imperial cult, but it seems very inappropriate to pay attention to a worldly emperor and his day in the book about the King of kings.

- (‹3›) "the day of the Lord", referred to in the OT as: "the day of the Lord" or: "day of the Lord". It is rightly objected to this that in the NT we encounter this expression in a different Greek form in 1 Th. 5: 2, 2 Th. 2: 2 and 2 Pt. 3:10, i.e. with Paul and Peter. This is indeed suggestive, but perhaps this is related to the Greek of Revelation which would deviate from the Greek of the Gospel and would be "clumsy" here and there. Others, however, believe that the clumsy Greek is due to the fact that the Aramaic version of Revelation preceded the Greek and that Aramaic version clearly says "the first day of the week". The Greek wording would then be a "somewhat sought after" translation of Aramaic. Against the translation "day of the LORD" (‹the day of YaHWeH›) it is also argued that we do not find the Aramaic variant of the name YaHWeH here in the Peshitta.
ram's horn - in Aramaic it has the word "shifura" which resembles the Hebrew "shofar".

Revelation 1:10, Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/1-10.htm
Verse 10 .... On the Lord's day. The expression occurs here only in the New Testament, and beyond all reasonable doubt it means "on Sunday." This is, therefore, the earliest use of the phrase in this sense. That it means Easter Day or Pentecost is baseless conjecture. The phrase had not yet become common in A.D. [__], as is shown from St. Paul writing, "on the first of the week" (1 Corinthians 16:2), the usual expression in the Gospels and Acts (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:19; Acts 20:7; comp. Mark 16:9).

================================================
"if the Greek were a translation, it wouldn't have changed from the 'first day of the week.'"
Lots of things get changed in formulating a translation. It's inevitable.
Moreover, the Greek transmission/recopying practices were rather sloppy at times, thereby introducing additional changes.

"the Peshitta which came centuries later... also says 'Lord's day.' .... it says 'Yaumo moronoio', Lord's day"
In the Harklean, sure, but the Crawford has for Rev 1:10
0mwyb in the day
0b4bdxd of one in seven
- PDF at
http://dukhrana.com/crawford/

I agree that the Harklean version of Revelation is a translation from Greek. The Crawford ms. of Revelation is in Aramaic; do you think it was translated from Greek? If 'yes,' what leads you to think that?

==========================================
Do you think Revelation 1:11 originally had:
"I am the Alpha and the O [i.e. Omega], the First and the Last"? (the Crawford ms. lacks that)
"who are in Asia"? (the Crawford ms. lacks that)

Revelation 1:11
https://biblehub.com/revelation/1-11.htm
(NIV) which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
(NKJV) saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) Which said, "Those things which you have seen, write in a book and send to the seven assemblies: to Ephesaus, to Zmurna, to Pergamaus, to Thawatyra, to Sardis, to Philadelphia and to Laidiqia.

Aramaic to Dutch to (via Google translate) English, dukhrana.com
Revelation 1:11 - said, "What you see, write it in a letter and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Tyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."
who said - in the Greek TR we read hereafter: 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last', but we do not find these words in the reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT, nor in the reading of the Aramean Peshitta.
the seven congregations - in the reading of the Greek TR we read below: "who are in Asia", but we do not find those words in the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. Nevertheless, these seven congregations were located in what was then Asia Minor (<the present-day Turkey>), north of Ephesus, along a road that ran in a kind of circle past all the seven congregations (<see the map of the 7 congregations>) .

====================================.
Do you think Revelation 1:12 originally had:
"to see the voice that"?
"to know the voice that"? (which the Crawford ms. has)

Revelation 1:12
(NIV) I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And I turned to know that voice which spoke with me, and when I turned around, I saw seven menorahs of gold;

Revelation 1:12 - I turned to know whose voice was speaking to me. And (when) I turned around, I saw seven golden candlesticks.
to know who the voice belonged to - literally it says in the reading of the Aramean Peshitta 'to know the voice that ...' The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: 'to see the voice that ...'.

===========================================.
Do you think Revelation 1:13 originally had:
"a robe reaching down to his feet"?
"an ephod"? (which the Crawford ms. has)

Revelation 1:13
(NIV) and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet
and with a golden sash around his chest.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And in the midst of the menorahs as the likeness of a man, and he wore an ephod
and he was girded around his chest with a golden wrap.

Revelation 1:13 - In the midst of the candlesticks was a man like a Son of Man, clothed with a priestly tunic and on his chest (He) wore a golden girdle.
chest - literally: "breasts".
a priest's tunic - this is reading of the Aramaic Peshitta: "efoda". This word, according to Bauscher, can stand for "the ephod" i.e. the tunic of the high priest in the OT. The word "ephoda" occurs in the Peshitta only in Hos. 3: 4 and in this verse in Revelation. Thus it is immediately clear in the Peshitta that we are dealing here with the High Priest. In the Peshitta the words "to the feet" are missing, for the ephod did not reach that far. The Greek refers to the priestly dress, which in itself is an argument in favor of the idea that the Greek text originated from the Aramaic. Bauscher points to the parable of the Aramaic words for "ephod" and "fine linen" in Ex. 25: 7; 28: 4.31; 29: 5; 35: 9 and onwards also in Ezek. 9: 2, 3, 11 and Zech. 3: 4 of the Peshitta of the OT. This might have led to confusion when translating from Aramaic. ....
What is striking is that the Aramaic word "pawdara" that we find in the Harklese version of the Aramaic New Testament has a strong sound resemblance to the Greek word || ποδηρη || (<Podiri>) for the long priestly robe in the LXX and in the text of this verse in the Greek NT.

============================.
Do you think Revelation 1:14 originally had:
"white like wool, as white as snow"?
"white as wool and like snow"? (which the Crawford ms. has)

Revelation 1:14
(NIV) The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow,
and his eyes were like blazing fire.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And his head and his hair were white as wool and like snow,
and his eyes were like flames of fire.

===================================.
Do you think Revelation 1:17 originally had:
"saying to me"?
merely "saying"? (which the Crawford ms. has)

Revelation 1:17
(Berean Literal) And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead.
And He placed His right hand upon me, saying,
"Fear not. I am the First and the Last,
(King James) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead.
And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me,
Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man,
and he laid his right hand upon me saying,
"Do not be afraid, for I am The First and The Last;

Revelation 1:17 - When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead and He put His right hand on me and said, "Do not be afraid, for I am the First and the Last,
and said - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28. The reading of the Greek MHT and TR reads: "and said to me".

==================================.
Do you think Revelation 1:18 originally had:
"amen"? (which the Crawford ms. has, where it's best rendered as 'continuing/perpetual')
"keys"?
"key"? (which the Crawford ms. has)
Hades?
Sheol? (which the Crawford ms. has)

Revelation 1:18
(NIV) I am the Living One; I was dead,
and now look, I am alive for ever and ever!
And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
(King James) I am he that liveth, and was dead;
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen;
and have the keys of hell and of death.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) I am he who lived and died,
and behold, I am alive to the eternity of eternities, amen,
and I have the key of Death and of Sheol.

Revelation 1:18 - the Living One, and I have been dead. Behold, I live forever and ever, and have the key of death and of Hades.
key - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT, and TR reads: "keys" (plural).
realm of the dead - in Greek "hades".
eternity - in a number of Greek manuscripts and in the Greek TR we find the word "Amen" hereafter, but that word does not appear in the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. [correction: "amen" _is_ in the Crawford ms.-- see
http://dukhrana.com/crawford/

===================================.
Do you think Revelation 1:20 originally had:
"seven golden lampstands... seven lampstands"?
"seven lampstands... seven golden lampstands"? (which the Crawford ms. has)

Revelation 1:20
(NIV) The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand and the seven menorahs: the seven stars are the Messengers of the seven assemblies, and the seven menorahs of gold which you saw are the seven assemblies.

Aramaic to Dutch to (via Google translate) English, dukhrana.com
Revelation 1:20 - The mystery of the seven stars, which you saw in my right hand, and (of) the seven lampstands (is this): the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven golden lampstands that you are the seven churches."
the seven golden candlesticks you have seen - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. In the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR, the word "golden" is missing here. However, the word is found in Greek for the first word "candlesticks" in this verse, while it does not appear there in the Peshitta.

===========================================.
"your latest argument that the 1st-century Greek manuscripts of Revelation are a translation of 7th-century Syriac"
That's not my argument. But perhaps there's a desire to have a strawman to beat up.

"variation itself is not evidence of translation"
What _would_ constitute "evidence of translation"?

"There's no reason a translation would introduce a totally new word"
Translations typically make use of totally new words. Sometimes, translations introduce meanings not present in the original material.

"leaving out a word is an actual mistake from copying"
Always?
"my Syriac text does say golden"

Do you think Revelation 1:20 originally had:
"seven golden lampstands... seven lampstands"?
"seven lampstands... seven golden lampstands"? (which the Crawford ms. has)

Revelation 1:20
(NIV)
The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English, working with the Crawford ms.)
The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand and the seven menorahs: the seven stars are the Messengers of the seven assemblies, and the seven menorahs of gold which you saw are the seven assemblies.

=======================================================.
Do you think Revelation 2:1 originally had:
"his right hand"?
"his hand"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:1
(NIV) "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And to The Messenger of the assembly of Ephesaus write: 'Thus says he who holds the seven stars in his hand, he who walks among the menorahs of gold:'”

Revelation 2:1 - Write to the Angel of the Church of Ephesus! This is what he says, who holds the seven stars in his hand, who walks among the golden candlesticks:
his hand - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT and TR read: "his right hand."

======================.
Do you think Revelation 2:2 originally had:
"saying themselves to be apostles"?
"say they are apostles"?
"claim to be apostles"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:2
(Young's Literal) I have known thy works, and thy labour, and thy endurance, and that thou art not able to bear evil ones, and that thou hast tried those saying themselves to be apostles and are not, and hast found them liars,
(King James) I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

(NIV) I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “I know your works, your toil and your patience, and that you cannot tolerate The Evil One, and you have tested those who claim to be Apostles, and they are not, and you have found them false.”

Revelation 2:2 - “I know your works and your effort and your patience and that you cannot bear the evil ones and that you have tested those who claim to be apostles, (but) they are not and that you find out have that they are liars.
who claim - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT is "who say of themselves", while the reading of the Greek TR is "who say".

==========================
Do you think Revelation 2:5 originally had:
"the first works"?
"the earlier/former works"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"I will come soon/quickly"?
"I will come"?
"I will come against you"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:5
(NIV) Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
(King James) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “Remember from where you have come out and do the former works; but if not, I will come against you and I will remove your menorah, unless you repent.

Revelation 2:5 - Remember where you came from and repent and do the former works. If not, I will turn against you and take your candlestick from its place unless you repent.
the earlier works - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "the first works".
then I will turn against you - more literally, "then I will come against you." This is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek MHT and TR reads: "I will come soon." The reading of the Greek NA28 is similar, except that the word "soon" is missing.

==========================
Do you think Revelation 2:7 originally had:
"in the middle of paradise"?
"in paradise"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"my God"
"God"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:7
(NIV) Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
(King James) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
(Douay-Rheims) He, that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches: To him, that overcometh, I will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of my God.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what The Spirit is speaking to the assemblies, and I shall give to the victor to eat of the tree of life, which is in The Paradise of God.

Revelation 2:7 - He who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will feed from the Tree of Life, which is in the paradise of GOD." in paradise - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. The Greek TR and some other Greek manuscripts read "in the middle of paradise."
GOD - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and TR. The reading of the Greek MHT is: "my GOD"

==========================
Do you think Revelation 2:9 originally had:
"your works and tribulation and poverty"?
"your tribulation and poverty"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)
"say they are Jews"?
"call themselves Yudia Yudia" i.e. 'authentic Judeans'? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:9
(NIV) I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
(King James) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “I know your suffering and your poverty (but you are rich) and the blasphemy of those who call themselves Jews of the Judeans, when they are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

Revelation 2:9 - “I know of your tribulation and your poverty, - (even though) you are rich -, and of the blasphemy against those who say they are real Jews when they are not, but a synagogue of Satan.
your tribulation - in the Greek MHT and TR it still says: "your works", but we do not find that text in the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and the Greek NA28.
true Jews - literally, "Jews of the Jews" or, "Jews of the Judaeans," translated by Mariano Franco in his Spanish edition of the Peshitta as "authentic Jews." The doubling of a word is indeed a way to reinforce a meaning, think of "king of kings" etc.

================================
Do you think Revelation 2:13 originally had:

"I know your works, and where you dwell"?
"I know where you dwell"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"in the days when Antipas was my faithful martyr"?
"in the days when in the cause of all of you, my faithful witness who was killed among you"?
"in the days when you and my faithful witness contended for the sake of all my faithful witnesses"? (the Crawford ms. contains the last one)

"where Satan has his throne.... where Satan lives"?
simply "the place of Satan's throne"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:13
(NIV) I know where you live--
where Satan has his throne.
Yet you remain true to my name.
You did not renounce your faith in me,
not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness,
who was put to death in your city--
where Satan lives.
(King James) I know thy works, and where thou dwellest,
even where Satan's seat is:
and thou holdest fast my name,
and hast not denied my faith,
even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr,
who was slain among you,
where Satan dwelleth.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) "'I know where you dwell:
the place of Satan's throne,
and you keep my name
and have not denied my faith,
and in the days when you and my faithful witness contended for the sake of all my faithful witnesses,
he was murdered among you.'”

Revelation 2:13 - “I know where you live, where the throne of Satan is, and you hold fast to my name and have not denied faith in me, (for) in the days when you and my faithful witness (together) fought for all my faithful witnesses, he was killed among you.
I know - in the reading of the Greek TR and the MHT hereafter follows "your works and", but these words are missing in the reading of the Greek NA28 and the Aramaic Peshitta.

explanation - our translation of this verse follows the Aramaic text of the Peshitta. The Greek text reads as follows: "Not even in the days when Antipas was my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells." This text leads to the following remarks and questions: Why are the words at the end of the verse: 'where Satan dwells', while in the beginning of the verse it is said 'where the throne of Satan is'. That's double....
frequent differences in Greek source texts....

The Greek "anti pas" with a space between the two words means "for the sake of all" or "for the cause of all". In some cases the Greek "anti" means "against", but the first meaning is "in the place of" or "for the sake of" or "for the cause of". The little Greek word || πας || means "all" or "everyone". Now if we revise the translation from the Greek on the basis of this knowledge, we read, "In the days when in the cause of all of you, my faithful witness who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.'' This sentence it does not run well, but the meaning comes closer to the text of the Aramaic Peshitta, apart from the closing sentence that may have been added; the name Antipas suddenly pops up here and is not found anywhere else in the NT or in the known church history of the congregation of Pergamum.

==========================.
Do you think Revelation 2:15 originally had:
"the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate"?
simply "the doctrine of the Nicolaitans"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:15
(NIV) Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
(King James) So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “So you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Naqolaytans, likewise.

Revelation 2:15 - Likewise you have those who hold to the doctrine of the Nicolaitans.
Nicolaitanes - in the reading of the Greek TR we read below: "that I hate," that is, the doctrine. These words are missing from the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and the Aramaic Peshitta.

====================================
Do you think Revelation 2:17 originally had:
"I will give to eat of the hidden manna"?
"I will give of the hidden manna"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:17
(NIV) Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious,
I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it.
(King James) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh
will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “And he who has an ear, let him hear what The Spirit speaks to the assemblies: 'To the one who is victorious
I shall give of the manna which is hidden, and I shall give him a white pebble, and upon the pebble, a name in writing that no man knows except he who receives.'”

Revelation 2:17 - He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him that overcometh
will I give of the hidden "manna," and will give him a white pebble, and on the pebble shall be written a new name, which no man knoweth but he that receiveth it."
to him I will give ... - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. The reading of the Greek TR reads, "Him will I feed of the hidden manna."

==============================
Do you think Revelation 2:20 originally had:
"I have this against you"?
"I have a few things against you"?
"I have much against you"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"that woman"?
"your wife"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:20
(NIV) Nevertheless, I have this against you:
You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.
(King James) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee,
because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “I have much against you,
because you are tolerating your wife Jezebel who says about herself that she is a Prophetess, and teaches and seduces my Servants to commit fornication and to eat the sacrifices of idols.”

Revelation 2:20 - But I have a lot against you:
that you let your wife Jezebel go about her business, who says of herself that she is a prophetess and teaches and tempts my servants to commit fornication and to eat idol offerings.
I have a lot against you - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT is: "I have against you." From the Greek TR the reading is: "I have some things against you."
your wife - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek MHT. The reading of the Greek NA28 and TR is "the woman".

==============================
Do you think Revelation 2:22 originally had:
"I will cast her into a bed"?
"I cast her upon a bier"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"her deeds"?
"their deeds"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:22
(Literal Standard Version) behold, I will cast her into a bed,
and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation-- if they may not convert from her works,
(King James) Behold, I will cast her into a bed,
and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 2:22 - Behold, I cast her upon a bier,
and those who commit adultery with her I bring into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.
on a bier - this is the bed on which a dead person lies. The Aramaic word can certainly also mean "bed" or "sickbed", but in Lk. 7:14 the same word is used in Aramaic Peshitta for the bier on which the dead young man from Nain lies. In the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR it says "bed", sometimes interpreted as "sick bed". But the question is whether it might be more correct to see a bier in this, because we read in the next verse of her children that they are being put to death. Would God judge the children more severely than their mother, who is apparently the cause of evil?
their deeds - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek TR, but the reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT reads: "her deeds". Despite this, many translations opt for "their deeds".


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 05-21-2021

Do you disagree with any of this?:

_The Apocalypse in the Harklean Version: A facsimile edition of MS. Martin Orth 35, fol. 143r-159v: With an Introduction by Arthur Voobus_ (1978), 75+35pp. On 20-21, summarizing John Gwynn's _The Apocalypse of St. John in a Syriac version hitherto unknown, ed. from a MS. in the Library of the Earl of Crawford and Balcarres, with critical notes on the Syriac text, and an annotated reconstruction of the underlying Greek text_ (1897), xvii-xviii, xix f., 27, with 3 minor edits
https://archive.org/details/apocalypseofstjo00gwynuoft
In this new manuscript [the Crawford ms.] Gwynn found features which led him to the view that this was a real discovery-- the lost version of Polycarp.

First of all there is the fact that a version has emerged here which, though aiming at stricter adherence to the Greek text, in general direction and idiom definitely stands in the stream of the tradition of the Pesitta. Furthermore, intrinsic circumstances make such observations particularly relevant. The Greek of the Apocalypse, above all other New Testament writings, has a Semitic cast and is therefore capable of idiomatic, yet exact, reproduction in a Semitic tongue. In fact, insofar as the rendering of the Greek text is concerned this version displays in every respect a vernacular propriety and excellence in purity of idiom. Here everything moves naturally, without impedence, smoothly into Syriac. Thus the text is characterized by the way in which it combines the preservation of Syriac idiom with fidelity to the Greek text.

Furthermore, instructive observations may be drawn on the language itself. The linguistic side is quite telling. The language employed is singularly free not only from Greek forms, syntactic means and expressions but also from those linguistic phenomena which characterize later development of the Syriac language. It clearly reflects the Syriac, and a Syriac which must be regarded as belonging to an early period where various forms still retained their original force and significance.

Another point of observation lies in the character of the revision work. This is highlighted by the freedom displayed in doing the work of alteration. The text exhibits a considerable freedom of choice. This is illustrated by the cases which show that the text is not consistent at all, insofar the technique of revision is concerned, in rendering the same word or expression. The revisor has used his judgment delicately, employing the various shades of meaning expressed by the same term in Greek.^56 [56: This is over against the technique in the Harklean version where the same Syriac word or expression is employed to represent the Greek equivalent.]

Then the question of relationship. Gwynn found these observations most useful for a comparative analysis between the text prepared by one competent to represent the original with skill and the text in the Harklean version by examining the words, grammatical forms and idioms, he found that this Apocalypse stands to the Harklean in a relation of strong contrast and to the Pesitta in a relation of no less strong a resemblance.

=====================================================
"remotely suggest the Greek manuscripts were translated from Aramaic"
What in your view _would_ constitute evidence of translation?

"continually reference a 12th-century (Crawford) document"
Do you think it's OK to use manuscript copies separated by more than 1,000 years from their date of original composition?

Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability - Dec 6, 2008
https://carm.org/about-the-bible/manuscript-evidence-for-superior-new-testament-reliability/
Author
Date Written
Earliest Copy
Approximate Time Span between original & copy
Number of Copies
Accuracy of Copies
Lucretius died 55 or 53 B.C. 1100 yrs 2 —-
Pliny A.D. 61-113 A.D. 850 750 yrs 7 —-
Plato 427-347 B.C. A.D. 900 1200 yrs 7 —-
Demosthenes 4th Cent. B.C. A.D. 1100 800 yrs 8 —-
Herodotus 480-425 B.C. A.D. 900 1300 yrs 8 —-
Suetonius A.D. 75-160 A.D. 950 800 yrs 8 —-
Thucydides 460-400 B.C. A.D. 900 1300 yrs 8 —-
Euripides 480-406 B.C. A.D. 1100 1300 yrs 9 —-
Aristophanes 450-385 B.C. A.D. 900 1200 10 —-
Caesar 100-44 B.C. A.D. 900 1000 10 —-
Livy 59 BC-AD 17 —- ??? 20 —-
Tacitus circa A.D. 100 A.D. 1100 1000 yrs 20 —-
Aristotle 384-322 B.C. A.D. 1100 1400 49 —-
Sophocles 496-406 B.C. A.D. 1000 1400 yrs 193 —-

=====================================================
Do you detect any flaws in this reasoning?:

J.W. Etheridge, _Horæ Aramaicæ: Comprising Concise Notices of the Aramean Dialects in General, and of the Versions of Holy Scripture extant in them : With a Translation of the Gospel According to St. Matthew, and of the Epistle to the Hebrews, from the Ancient Peschito Syriac_ (1843), 246pp., on 49
https://archive.org/details/horaramaiccompr01ethegoog
https://archive.org/stream/horaramaiccompr01ethegoog/horaramaiccompr01ethegoog_djvu.txt
The absence of certain books (namely, the second and third Epistles of St. John, the second of St. Peter, the Epistle of St. Jude, and the Apocalypse) from the canon of the Peschito, suggests another argument for its antiquity. For either those books were unknown at the time when the version was made, or, being known, were not as yet universally recognised as canonical. But neither of these suppositions can consist with a date later than the middle of the second century.

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Do you disagree with any of this?:

T. K. Abbott, "The Apocalypse of St. John, in a Syriac Version Hitherto Unknown" _Hermathena_ (1899: Vol 10), 27-35
https://archive.org/details/sim_hermathena_1899_10/page/190/mode/2up
The colophon [of the Crawford ms.] informs us that the MS. was written for Rabban Gabriel by one Stephen, belonging to the monastery of Mar Jacob, the recluse of Egypt, and Mar Bar-shabba, near Salach, in Tur‘abdin, in the dominion of Hesna Kipha. Tur‘abdin, now Jebel-Tur, is a district in the north-east of Mesopotamia, about one hundred miles long, long the headquarters of Jacobite monasticism. Salach was the seat of a bishop. The writer also gives us the names of his teachers and instructors, asking the prayers of the reader for them, as well as for himself. These names, however, give little help.

The first guide to the age of the MS. must be its handwriting. On this experts are divided, some assigning it to the eighth or ninth, some to the twelfth century. Dr. Gwynn gives sufficient reasons for adopting the latter view, and he has on his side the high authority of the late Dr. William Wright, of Cambridge (previously of Trinity College, Dublin), and of Dr. Karl Horning. Both these scholars fixed independently on the same MS. in the British Museum as especially resembling this, and the MS. so chosen was written in the same region in 1196. Dr. Gwynn himself has ascertained, by search amongst the Mss. in the British Museum and in Paris, not only that nearly all the Biblical MSS. written in or near Tur‘abdin resemble this more than any others, but further, that all these dated Tur‘abdinese MSS. were written in the latter part of the twelfth century, which seems to have been a period of activity in that region. An important confirmation of this view of the date of the MS. is that it was not until the twelfth century that Hesna Kipha was made a principality.

The version itself, however, is of much earlier date. This, indeed, is suggested by the character of some of the misreadings in the MS. itself, which point to repeated transcriptions. But more pointed evidence is suggested by a MS. in the British Museum, which contains a considerable extract from this version, and which bears [the] date A. Gr. 1185 = A.D. 874. A comparison of the readings in that extract with the Crawford MS. shows that the latter is derived ultimately at least from an older copy than the B. M. [i.e. British Museum] MS.
....the Harkleian version (Dr. Gwynn’s Σ)
.... the Crawford version (which now, following Dr. Gwynn, we shall call S)....

Moreover, the MSS. of Σ contain marks indicating various readings, and some of these are not found in any authority except S. It is an admitted fact that in the Harkleian version such marks are part of the translator’s work, and include references to the version on which it was based.

As to the textual affinities of S, Dr. Gwynn’s conclusion, from an exhaustive comparison with the Greek authorities, is-- That it is a mixed text, the larger component of which is a text adhering to the consent of ...
[i.e. "Codex Sinaiticus, also known as “Aleph” (the Hebrew letter א)" - https://www.gotquestions.org/Codex-Sinaiticus-Vaticanus.html ]
A [i.e. Codex Alexandrinus] C [i.e. Codex Ephraemi - _Gospel Parallels_] P [i.e. Papyri], or the majority of them, while the smaller component agrees with Q (Tischendorf’s B, Westcott and Hort’s B_2) and the cursives. Its special affinities are, amongst the uncials with ... [i.e. Aleph], the oldest Greek MS., and among the Latin versions, with the Primasian, the earliest known form of the old Latin, probably the oldest version extant of the Apocalypse.

There is a remarkable agreement with ... [i.e. Aleph] in some of the "eccentric" readings of that MS., _ex. gr._ the insertion of ... in ii. 20, and of ... before ... in v. 5 (so Vulg. Clem.); ... for ..., xiv. 20 (so one cursive, 26). Of agreement with Latin authorities, we may note v. 4, .... = Prim. for ....
In one or two places, where S stands alone, it presents a very plausible reading, as in xviii. 16, where, instead of ... of the Greek text, it has ..., agreeing with ..., so that instead of the city (figured as a female) being herself gilded, it is her garments that are gilded.

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Do you disagree with any of this?:

_The Morphology of Koine Greek As Used in the Apocalypse of St. John: A Study in Bilingualism_ by G. Mussies (1971), 14
http://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Morphology_of_Koine_Greek_As_Used_in/9XweAAAAIAAJ?
http://www.google.com/books?id=9XweAAAAIAAJ&newbks=0&printsec=frontcover&q=alexandrinus&hl=en#v=snippet&q=alexandrinus&f=false
2.2. Choice of the Manuscript
The great problem is now which Apocalypse-_ms._ we must choose. As is well known the oldest manuscript is not necessarily the most trustworthy. The number of intermediate copies between a Xth century _cursive_ and the autograph need not be larger than between the latter and a IVth century _uncial_. It may have so happened that the cursive has been copied directly from a _ms._ X, while our uncial stems via several other _mss._ as intermediate stages from this same X. In such a case the latter is likely to be the less trustworthy, because each copy increases the number of variants, omissions, improvements, errors, _etc._

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Do you agree with me that the Greek Revelation contains numerous solecisms?

_The Solecisms of the Apocalypse_ by T. Cowden Laughlin (1902), 23pp., 4, with a comma deleted
archive.org/details/solecismsofapoca00laugrich/page/4/mode/2up
The Greek of the Apocalypse is marked by a series of most striking peculiarities which, as has long been recognized, are due in large part to the influence of the Hebrew idiom. They appear in passages imitating the style of the Hebrew Prophets^1 (with whose writings the Apocalyptist was so familiar^2) or in sentences or phrases transferred directly from the Hebrew of the Old Testament or from its Greek translation-- the LXX.^3 The following pages present the evidence of this Hebrew influence in sufficient volume and with sufficient discussion of detail to make, it is hoped, a complete demonstration.^4

1 Ebrard, in speaking of the more glaring solecisms of the Apocalypse, says that "dieselben nicht unwillkuhrlich, sondern in halbabsichtlicher Nachahmung des Colorits der a. t. Sprache entstanden sind. Der Autor der Apokalypse wollte offenbar hebraisirend schreiben ; die Sprache und der Stil der a. t. Propheten war es, die ihm allein in ihrer grossartigen Sehlichtheit genugte, das Ungeheure wiederzugeben, was er geschaut hat." ("Wissenschaftliche Kritik der evangelischen Geschichte." Dritte Aufl. Frankfurt a. M. 1868, S. 1106.)

[using google translate on the German: "the same not involuntarily, but in semi-intentional imitation of the color of the a. t. Language emerged. The author of the Apocalypse evidently wanted to write in Hebrew; the language and style of a. t.
It was prophets who, alone in their great clarity of vision, were sufficient for him to reproduce the monstrous what he saw." ("Scientific Criticism of evangelical History."]

2 Ewald, "Die Johanneischen Schriften." Bd. II., S. 52.

3 The LXX translation is more Hebraic than the N. T. and does not represent a type of Greek established and in actual currency at the time it was made, but "its distinctive character is due rather to the translators' exaggerated deference to the Hebrew sacred text and their mechanical reproduction of it." (Thayer on "Language of the New Testament" in Hasting's " Dictionary of the Bible," Vol. III, p. 40.) It is not surprising, then, that solecisms are found in the LXX nor in the writings of those who quoted or made use of that translation.

4 There are no less than 460 O.T. passages made use of in the Apocalypse. Westcott and Hort give a list of these in their "N.T. Greek," pp. 612 ff. and under the heading "Quotations from the O.T." ; but the Apocalypse contains no quotations proper, although a great part of its language is taken from the O.T. (Toy, "Quotations in the N.T.," p. 253. Cp. Swete, "An Introduction to the O.T. in Greek," pp. 392 and 404.)

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"argument that the 7th-century Syriac text of Revelation, translated from Greek, is the source of the 1st-century Greek text"
I don't think that. But perhaps there's a desire to have a strawman to beat up.
I agree that the Harklean is a translation from Greek.

"claiming that the person Antipas is actually not a name but is two Greek words.... any English translator of the Greek is free to assume that name is actually two Greek words"
Do you think there was, or wasn't, a person called Antipas?

"it's not very likely that a translator is going add a person's name into the text where there is none"
Translators and copyists have done stranger things.

"The Syriac looks botched. It speaks of a faithful witness who was slain, but doesn't give him name"
What's the name(s) of Revelations's '2 witnesses' that were killed?

==============================================
Do you think Revelation 2:26 originally had:
"keeps my works to the end"?
"keeps my works"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:26
(Young's Literal) and he who is overcoming,
and who is keeping unto the end my works,
I will give to him authority over the nations,
(King James) And he that overcometh,
and keepeth my works unto the end,
to him will I give power over the nations:
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) "To him who is victorious
and keeps my works,
I shall give authority over the nations,"

Revelation 2:26 - To him that overcometh and keep pursuing my works,
I will give power over the nations,
continue to look after my works - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "Keep my works to the end".

================================================
Do you think Revelation 2:27 originally had:
"they shall be shattered"?
"you shall shatter them"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 2:27
(King James) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;
as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers:
even as I received of my Father.
(Young's Literal) and he shall rule them with a rod of iron --
as the vessels of the potter they shall be broken --
as I also have received from my Father;
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) "To Shepherd them with a rod of iron,
and like the vessels of a potter you shall shatter them,
for in the same manner I have also received of my Father."

Revelation 2:27 - to rule them with a rod of iron,
and like a potter's pitchers you shall crush them,
for thus I also received it from my Father,
you will crush them - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta according to Bauscher, which is confirmed by the African Peshitta translation and by the grammatical analysis of the Aramaic verb. Other Peshitta translations read, "they will be crushed," but in our view, that translation is incorrect.
for that is how I also received it from my Father - several commentators associate these words with Ps. 2:8-9.

Psalm 2 (Young's Literal)
7 I declare concerning a statute: Jehovah said unto me,
'My Son Thou [art], I to-day have brought thee forth.
8 Ask of Me and I give nations — thy inheritance,
And thy possession — the ends of earth.
9 Thou dost rule them with a sceptre of iron,
As a vessel of a potter Thou dost crush them.'

=================================================
Do you think Revelation 3:1 originally had:
"dead"?
"dying"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 3:1
(NIV) "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
(King James) And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “And to The Messenger who is in the assembly of Sardis write: Thus says he who has The Seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: I know your works and the name that you have, and that you are alive and are dying.”

Revelation 3:1 - Write to the angel of the church in Sardis! This is what He who has the seven spirits of GOD and the seven stars says: I know your works, that you are called alive, (but) you are dying.
dying - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT and TR read: "dead."

================
Do you think Revelation 3:2 originally had:
"about to throw away"?
"about to die"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"my God"?
"God"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 3:2
(NIV) Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die,
for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God.
(World English Bible) Wake up, and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away,
for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God.
(Young's Literal) become watching, and strengthen the rest of the things that are about to die,
for I have not found thy works fulfilled before God.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “Be vigilant and confirm what remains of those things that are ready to die,
for I have not found you such that your works are perfect before God.”

Revelation 3:2 - “Be vigilant and strengthen the rest that is in danger of dying, for I have not found your works complete for my GOD.
reinforce ... that threatens to die - "threatens to die" is literally "about to die". This is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and TR. The reading of the Greek MHT reads: "Reinforce the rest that you wanted to throw away"
my GOD - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. The reading of the Greek TR is "GOD". [correction: Crawford says "God," not "my God."]

===============================
Do you think Revelation 3:4 originally had:
"you have"?
"I have"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 3:4
(NIV) Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
(King James) Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “But I have a few names in Sardis, those who have not defiled their garments, and they walk before me in white and they are worthy.”

Revelation 3:4 - But I have some names in Sardis, those who have not soiled their clothes, and they walk before Me in white clothes because they are worthy.
I - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT and TR read: "But you have ..."

========================================
Do you think Revelation 3:10 originally had:
"hour of trial"?
merely "trial"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 3:10
New International Version
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
King James Bible
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Because you have kept the word of my patience, I also shall keep you from the trial that is going to come over the entire inhabited world, to test the inhabitants of The Earth.”

Revelation 3:10 - Because you have kept the word of my endurance, I will also keep you from the trial that will come upon all the inhabited world to try those who dwell on the earth.
for the trial - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT, and TR read, "Before the Hour of Trial."

==============
Do you think Revelation 3:12 originally had:
"that comes down out of heaven from my God"?
"that comes down from my God"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 3:12
New International Version
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
King James Bible
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And I will make the overcomer a pillar in The Temple of God and he will not go outside again, and I shall write upon him The Name of my God, and the name of The City, The New Jerusalem, which descends from my God, and my new Name.”

Revelation 3:12 - He that overcometh I will make a pillar in the Temple of my GOD, and he will not go out again. I will write on him the Name of my GOD and the name of the new city Jerusalem that comes down from my GOD, and my new Name.
that descends from my GOD - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT, and TR reads, "That descends from the heaven of my GOD."

============================
Do you think Revelation 3:14 originally had:
"assembly in Laodicea"?
"assembly of the Laodiceans"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 3:14
New International Version
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.
King James Bible
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And to The Messenger of the assembly of the Laidiqians write: “Thus says The Eternal, The Trustworthy and True Witness, and The Source of The Creation of God:”

Revelation 3:14 - Write to the angel of the Laodicean church! This says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of GOD's creation:
the congregation of the Laodiceans - this is the reading of the Greek TR and of the Aramaic Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT is "the church in Laodicea."

=============================
Do you think Revelation 3:16 originally had:
"hot nor cold"?
"cold nor hot"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 3:16
New International Version
So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
King James Bible
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I am going to vomit you from my mouth.”

Revelation 3:16 - Therefore, because you are lukewarm and not cold or hot, I am going to spit you out of my mouth.
cold or hot - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and the Greek MHT and TR. The reading of the Greek NA28 is "cold or hot".

===============================
Do you think Revelation 3:17 originally had:
"Because you say, 'I am rich, and increased with goods"?
“Because you say that you are rich, and, 'I have prospered"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"blind"? (the Crawford ms. lacks that)

Revelation 3:17
King James Bible
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Because you said that you are rich, and, 'I have prospered, and I lack nothing', and you do not know that you are sick and wretched and poor and naked,”

Revelation 3:17 - Because you have said that you are rich and "I have enriched myself and have need of nothing!", (While) you do not realize that you are sick, miserable, poor and naked,
Because you have said that you are rich and "I have enriched myself ... - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT and TR read: "Because you said, "I am rich and enriched ... "
you are sick, miserable, poor and naked - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. in the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR between 'arm' and 'naked' the word 'blind', which gives a better connection with the 'eye salve' in the next verse, although the question is whether or not does not belong to the original reading of the text. .... The word "blind" fits nicely with the content of the next verse when it comes to "eye ointment". In addition, the medical powder for the eyes from Laodicea was very famous in those days. It was marketed in tablet form. After crushing the tablet, the agent was applied to the eyes as a paste or ointment. See also Jh. 9:39.

=====================================
Do you think Revelation 3:20 originally had:
"I will enter him"?
"I will come in"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 3:20
King James Bible
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Behold, I stand at the door and I shall knock. If a man listens to my voice and will open the door, I also shall come in and I shall have supper with him, and he with me.”

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with me.
I will come in ... - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "I will enter him ..."
meal - the Aramaic word stands for "evening meal", i.e. the main meal of the day.

===============================================
Do you think Revelation 4:3 originally had:
"and the sitting"?
"and he who sat"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 4:3
Berean Literal Bible
and the _One_ sitting, in appearance _was_ like jasper and carnelian stone. And a rainbow _was_ around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.
King James Bible
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he who sat was as the likeness of the appearance of Jasper red quartz stone and of red and white Sardius, and a rainbow of the clouds which encircled the throne was like the appearance of an emerald;

Revelation 4:3 - And He that sat (upon it) was like the stone of jasper and sardius in appearance, and a (rain) bow was round about the throne, like the emerald in appearance.
and He who sat on it - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and TR. This text is missing from the reading of the Greek MHT. In the Greek of the NA28 and MHT it literally says: "and the sitting on it". The verb indicates a constant "sitting".

=========================================
Do you think Revelation 4:4 originally had:
"thrones I saw"?
merely "thrones"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 4:4
New International Version
Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones,
and seated on them were twenty-four elders.
They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
King James Bible
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats:
and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting,
clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And around the throne, 24 thrones,
and upon those thrones, 24 Elders who sat
wearing white garments and crowns of gold upon their heads.

Revelation 4:4 - Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones sat twenty-four elders, dressed in white robes and with crowns of gold on their heads.
on thrones - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. Only in the reading of the Greek TR do the following words occur: "I saw".
to sit - the Greek verb form refers to sitting continuously.

==================================================.
"the Crawford manuscript is a 12th-century translation from the Greek"
How'd you come to the conclusion that the text in the Crawford ms. was translated from Greek?

"an added word indicates a translation"
Including here?:

John 1:38, biblehub
(King James) Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him,
Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And Yeshua turned and he saw them coming after him and he said: “What are you seeking?”, and they said,
“Our Master, where are you staying?”

https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
(Murdock) And Jesus turned, and saw them coming after him, and he said to them: What seek ye? They said to him:
Our Rabbi, where stayest thou?

"a missing word doesn't indicate something is a translation"
What, in addition to "an added word," _would_ "indicate something is a translation"?

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 4:5 originally had:
"lightnings and thunders and voices"?
"lightnings and voices and thunders"?
"thunders and lightnings and voices"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 4:5
King James Bible
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And from the throne proceeded lightnings, and voices, and thunders; and there were seven lamps burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And from the throne proceed thunders and lightnings and voices, and seven lamps were burning before that throne, which are The Seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 4:5 - From the throne came thunders, thunderbolts and voices. Seven lights were burning before the throne, that is the seven Spirits of GOD.
thunders ... thunderbolts - this is the order in the Aramaic Peshitta, but the order in the Greek NA28 is: 'thunderbolts, thunders and voices', while the reading of the Greek MHT and TR is: 'thunderbolts, voices and thunders' .

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Do you think Revelation 4:8 originally had "stood and"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 4:8
King James Bible
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Each one of these four beasts stood and had from its appendages and over it six surrounding wings, and from within they are full of eyes and are not silent day or night, saying, "Holy, holy, holy, LORD JEHOVAH God Almighty."

Revelation 4:8 - Each of the four creatures stood and had six wings from its claws and upward, which were full of eyes within. They had no rest day and night, saying, "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD GOD, the Almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come."
stood and - these words are part of the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta, but they do not appear in the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR.

==============================
Do you think Revelation 4:9 originally had:
"beasts"?
"four beasts"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)
"amen"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 4:9
King James Bible
And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when these four beasts give glory and honor and thanks to him who sits upon the throne and to The One Living to the eternity of eternities, amen,

Revelation 4:9 - (Whenever) the four beings brought glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits upon the throne, who lives for all eternity, - Amen! -,
the four beings - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads simply: "the beings".
Amen - in this and the next verse this "Amen" is part of the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta, but it is missing from the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR.

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Do you think Revelation 4:10 originally had "amen"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 4:10
Young's Literal Translation
fall down do the twenty and four elders before Him who is sitting upon the throne, and bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages,
and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The 24 Elders fall down in front of him who sits upon the throne and worship The Living One for the eternity of eternities, amen,
and cast their crowns before the throne saying,

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Do you think Revelation 4:11 originally had:
"You, our Lord and God, are worthy"?
"You, O Lord, are worthy"?
"You, our Lord and God, the Holy One, are worthy"?
"You, our Lord and our God, are worthy"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 4:11
New International Version
"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."
King James Bible
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
World English Bible
"Worthy are you, our Lord and God, the Holy One, to receive the glory, the honor, and the power, for you created all things, and because of your desire they existed, and were created!"
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
"You are worthy, our Lord and Our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you have created all things, and by your pleasure they exist and were created."

Revelation 4:11 - "You, our Lord and our GOD, are worthy to receive the glory and the honor and the power for You created all things, and by Your will they were and were created!"
You, our Lord and our GOD, are worthy - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28 reads, "You, our Lord and GOD, are worthy," while the Greek TR reads, "You, O Lord, are worthy." The reading of the Greek MHT reads, "You, Lord, our GOD, the Holy One, are worthy."
by your will - in the Aramaic Peshitta the expression sounds more like: "by your good pleasure", but the word "good pleasure" is not very common anymore.

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Revelation 5:1 - And I saw, on the right hand of Him who sat on the throne, a scroll written within and without, sealed with seven seals.
sealed with seven seals - in the Aramaic Peshitta these words sound poetically "tabaya taba shaba".

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 5:3 originally had:
"in heaven above"?
"in heaven"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"open the scroll or see it"?
"open the scroll and loosen its seals and see it"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 5:3
King James Bible
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
World English Bible
No one in heaven above, or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look in it.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And there was none able in Heaven or in Earth, nor any under The Earth, to open the scroll and to open its seals and look upon it.

Revelation 5:3 - No one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth could open the scroll and loosen its seals and see it.
in heaven - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and TR. The reading of the Greek MHT is "in heaven above."
opening - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. The reading of the Greek TR is "open and read." [correction: that entry belongs with 5:4]
loosening its seals - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. These words are missing in the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR.

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 5:4 originally had:
"open the scroll or view it"?
"open and read the scroll, or view it"?
"open the scroll and loosen its seals"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 5:4
New International Version
I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
King James Bible
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I was weeping much because none was found worthy to open the scroll and to loosen its seals,

Revelation 5:4 - I cried badly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll and untie its seals.
to release the scroll ... this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "to open the scroll or view it."

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 5:5 originally had:
"seven seals"?
"seals"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 5:5
New International Version
Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."
King James Bible
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And one of the Elders said to me, "Do not weep; behold, The Lion from the tribe of Judah, The Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and its seals."

Revelation 5:5 - One of the elders said to me, "Weep not, behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome to open the scroll and its seals."
the Lion of the tribe of Judah - this is the only time that Jesus Christ is referred to in the Bible as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. See further Gen. 49:9.
has ... open - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT is very similar to this, but speaks of "his seven seals."

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 5:6 originally had:
"I saw, and lo/behold"?
"I saw"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 5:6
New International Version
Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
King James Bible
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I saw in the midst of a throne and of The Four Beasts and of the Elders, a Lamb, which was as if it were slain, and it had seven horns and seven eyes, which are The Seven Spirits of God sent into the whole Earth.

Revelation 5:6 - And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four creatures and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb as slaughter, with seven horns and seven eyes. These are the seven Spirits of GOD who have been sent out all over the earth.
And I saw - in the Greek TR it is added "and behold", but these words are missing in the reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT and in that of the Aramaic Peshitta.

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Do you think Revelation 5:7 originally had "scroll"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 5:7
Berean Literal Bible
And He came and took _it_ out of the right hand of the _One_ sitting on the throne.
King James Bible
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he came and took the scroll from the hand of him who sat on the throne.

Revelation 5:7 - And He came and took the scroll out of the hand of Him who sat on the throne.
the scroll - we find this word in the reading of the Greek TR and of the Aramaic Peshitta, but we do not find it in the reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT.

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Do you think Revelation 5:9 originally had:
"tribe and language and people and nation"?
"tribe and people and nation"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 5:9
King James Bible
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Singing a new hymn of praise, and they were saying, "You are worthy to take the scroll and to loosen its seals, because you were slain and you have redeemed us by your blood to God from every tribe, nation and people,"

Revelation 5:9 - They sang a new song and said, "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for You were slain and You bought us to GOD with Your blood out of every tribe and people and nation.
from every tribe and people and nation - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT and TR read, "from every tribe and language and people and nation." So in the Peshitta the word "language" is missing in this verse, but not in Op. 7:9 and Op. 13:7 and Op. 14:6.

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Do you think Revelation 5:10 originally had:
"made us"?
"made them"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"kingdom and priests"?
"kings and priests"?
"kingdom and priests and kings"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"we will"?
"they will"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 5:10
New International Version
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth."
King James Bible
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests:
and we shall reign on the earth.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
"And you have made them a Kingdom, Priests and Kings to our God,
and they shall reign over The Earth."

Aramaic Peshitta NT
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
And you made them a kingdom for our God and priests and kings and they will reign on the earth."

Revelation 5:10 - You have made them a kingdom to our GOD, and (as) priests and kings, and they shall rule (as kings) over the earth."
them - this is the reading of the Greek NA28, the MHT and the Aramaic Peshitta, but the reading of the Greek TR is "us", but with very poor manuscript support.
made into a kingdom, and ... kings - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta. The Greek NA28 reads "to a kingdom and to priests, while the Greek TR and MHT is "to kings and priests."
they will - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT.
Only in the TR we find the reading: "we will".

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Do you think Revelation 5:14 originally had:
"the 24 elders"?
"the elders"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"worshipped him that lives forever and ever"?
"worshipped"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 5:14
New International Version
The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.
King James Bible
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when The Four Beasts said, "Amen", The Elders fell down and worshiped.

Revelation 5:14 - And when the four beings say "Amen!" said, the elders fell down and worshiped.
the elders - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. Only from the Greek TR does the reading read: "And the twenty-four elders."
worshiped - only in the reading of the Greek TR are the following words after this: "Him who lives for all eternity."


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 05-27-2021

misrendering at Greek Revelation 1:16

It's a semiticism to view swords as having mouths that drink blood. A 'two-mouthed' sword is a double-edged sword. The original Aramaic of Rev 1:16 has a word that can mean "his mouth," "his voice," or "his edge"-- as in, his sword. The original Aramaic has a word that, if the letter "m" is added to it, becomes spear/lance.
When Rev 1:16 got translated into Greek, the Aramaic got mis-rendered as "out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding."

Revelation 1:16, based on Greg Glaser's interlinear of Crawford, dukhrana.com
and having to him in his hand of right seven stars/planets, and from
p-u-m-h [his-mouth/ his-voice/ his-command/ his-entrance/ his-edge]
proceeds
r-u-kh-a [spirit(s)/ breath/ wind/ space] [Crawford has 0xwr ("spirit(s)"), whereas SP has 0xmwr {r-u-m-ch-a} ("spear"). Crawford better harmonizes with Revelation 2:12 and 19:15 - GG. The UBS on dukhrana has an error.]
energetic/ sharp/ quick/ acute/ velocity,
and his appearance like the sun was showing/revealing/striking in his power.

Revelation 1:16
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/1-16.htm
kai/ καὶ/ and
ek/ ἐκ/ out of
tou/ τοῦ/ the
stomatos/ στόματος/ mouth
autou/ αὐτοῦ/ of Him
rhomphaia/ ῥομφαία/ a sword
distomos/ δίστομος
oxeia/ ὀξεῖα/ sharp
ekporeuomenē/ ἐκπορευομένη/ is going forth

1366. distomos
https://biblehub.com/greek/1366.htm
Definition: double-mouthed, two-edged
Usage: (lit: twain-mouthed; hence: of a sword, as a drinker of blood), two-edged.

Revelation 1:16
https://biblehub.com/revelation/1-16.htm
Young's Literal Translation
and having in his right hand seven stars,
and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding,
and his countenance is as the sun shining in its might.
Berean Literal Bible
and He is holding in His right hand seven stars,
and a sharp two-edged sword is going forth out of His mouth;
and His face _is_ like the sun shining in its full strength.

Rev 2:12 (Young's Literal)
'And to the messenger of the assembly in Pergamos write:
These things saith he who is having the sharp two-edged sword:

Rev 2.12 (based on Glaser)
And to the m-l-a-k-a [angel/ messenger] who is in the assembly of Pergamma/Pergameans write, So says he who has to him kh-r-b-a [the sword] energetic/sharp/quick/acute of two his-edges/his-mouths/his-entrances.
Rev 19:15
And from their-mouths/ their-commands depart kh-r-b-a [sword/blade/war/desolation] energetic/sharp/quick/acute that in-him/in-it will slaughter (plural) to nations/peoples,
and he will-rule/ will-lead/ will-shepherd them in staff/rod of iron,
and he treading winepress of his-passion/ his-anger/ his-rage of God holding (plural) all.

================================================
Variants: The Revelation
https://www.zeolla.org/christian/alt/variants/revelation.htm

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Do you think Revelation 6:1 originally had:
"seals"?
"seven seals"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"Come"?
"Come and see"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:1
New International Version
I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals.
Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!"
King James Bible
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals,
and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I saw when The Lamb opened one of the seven seals,
and I heard one of The Four Beasts speaking like the sound of thunder: “Come and see.”

Rev 6:1 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals
and I heard one of the four living creatures that spoke as the sound of thunderings, "Come and see."

Revelation 6:1 - And I looked as the Lamb opened [one of the seven seals], and I heard one of the four beings say as if there was a thunderclap: "Come and see!"
seven - this word is missing from the Greek TR, but it is found in the Greek NA28, MHT and in the Aramaic Peshitta.
and see! - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek MHT and TR. This text is missing from the reading of the Greek NA28.

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Do you think Revelation 6:2 originally had:
"I saw, and behold"?
"I heard and I saw, and behold"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"went out conquering, and to conquer"?
"went out a conqueror, both conquering and to conquer"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:2
King James Bible
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I heard and I saw and behold, a white horse, and he who sat upon it had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went out and gave victory, and was conquering and would conquer.

Rev 6:2 APNT
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
And I heard and I saw and behold, [there was] a white horse and he who sat on it had an archery bow and a crown was given to him and he went out a conqueror, both conquering and to conquer.

Revelation 6:2 - And I heard and looked, and behold, [a white horse], and he that sat upon it had a bow, and a crown was given him, and he went forth, conquering, conquering, and to conquer.
And I heard and looked, and see ... - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. But from the Greek NA28, MHT and TR the reading is simply: "And I looked, and see", without "I heard". The text "I heard" is actually very appropriate in connection with the loudly shouted words, "Come and see!" In the preceding verse.
conquered, conquering and to conquer - only in the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta we find here 3 verb forms. The first verb form, "he conquered", is missing from the Greek NA28, MHT and TR.

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Do you think Revelation 6:3 originally had:
"Come and see"?
"Come"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:3
New International Version
When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!"
King James Bible
And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second Beast which said, “Come.”

Revelation 6:3 - When He opened [the second seal], I heard the second being say, "Come!"
Come on! - after these words we only read the words in the Greek TR: "and see".

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Do you think Revelation 6:4 originally had:
"another horse went out"?
"a horse went out"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:4
New International Version
Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.
King James Bible
And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And a red horse went out, and to him who sat upon it was given to take peace from The Earth and to kill each one, and a great sword was given to him.

Revelation 6:4 - And [a red horse] went out, and to him that sat on it it was given to take peace from the earth and that they should kill one another, and a great sword was given to him.
And a red horse pulled out - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "And another, a red horse, went out"

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Do you think Revelation 6:5 originally had:
"'Come!' I saw"?
"Come and see. And I saw"?
"Come and behold"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:5
New International Version
When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
King James Bible
And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third Beast saying, “Come”, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat upon him had a balance scale in his hand.

Revelation 6:5 - When He opened it [the third seal], I heard the third being say, "Come!" And, behold, [a black horse], and he that sat upon it had a balance in his hand.
"Come!" and see ... - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and the Greek TR. The reading of the Greek NA28 and MHT is: "Come!" And I saw and see: ... "

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Do you think Revelation 6:6 originally had:
"four beasts"?
"beasts"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"the oil and the wine"?
"the wine and the oil"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:6
New International Version
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "Two pounds of wheat for a day's wages, and six pounds of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
King James Bible
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I heard a voice from among The Beasts, which said, “A two-quart measure of wheat for a denarius and three two-quart measures of barley for a denarius, and you shall not harm the wine and the oil.”

Revelation 6:6 - And I heard a voice from among the (living) beings say, "A two-quart measure of wheat for a dinar and three measures of barley for a dinar, and do not harm the wine and the oil!"
the [(living)] beings - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT, and TR read: "the four living entities."
the wine and the oil - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "the oil and the wine."

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Do you think Revelation 6:7 originally had:
"I heard"?
"I heard the voice"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"fourth creature"?
"creature"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"Come and see"?
"Come"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:7
New International Version
When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say,
"Come!"
King James Bible
And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say,
Come and see.
World English Bible
When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the fourth living creature saying,
"Come and see!"
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of a Beast saying,
“Come.”

Revelation 6:7 - When He opened [the Fourth Seal], I heard the voice of a creature say, "Come!"
the voice of ... - these words we find in the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and in the reading of the Greek NA28 and TR, but not in the reading of the Greek MHT.
Come on! - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28. ....
of a being - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT and TR read: "the fourth being."

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Do you think Revelation 6:8 originally had:
"And I looked, and behold"?
"And behold"?
"And I saw"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"given to them"?
"given to him"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:8
King James Bible
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
World English Bible
And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death. Hades followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the earth was given to him.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I saw a pale horse, and the name of him who sat upon it was Death, and Sheol joined him and authority was given to him over a fourth of The Earth to kill with the sword, with starvation, with Death, and by the animals of The Earth.

Revelation 6:8 - And I saw [a pale horse], and the one sitting on it was called "Death", and Hades followed him. And power was given to him over a quarter of the earth to kill with the sword, and with famine, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
And I saw - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek TR and NA28 is: "And I saw, and see ...", while the reading of the Greek MHT is: "And look!"
pale - or: "green" because the Greek word "chloros" is used in Mk. 6:39, Op. 8: 7 and Op. 9: 4 translated as "green". In the Aramean Peshitta Mk. 6:39 the word "green," and here in Op. 6: 8 in the various translations the Aramaic is translated both "pale" and "green", while in Op. 8: 7 no color designation is given of the grass, and in Op. 9: 4 there is a word that is related to the word that we have translated here as "pale", but there it is translated as "green" (possibly yellow-green as of dry grass).
And him - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek MHT. The reading of the Greek TR and NA28 is "and theirs". Since the red and black horse bring the sword and hunger, "their" could be the correct representation here. However, the rendering "him" fits in well with the words before it: "followed him".

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Do you think Revelation 6:9 originally had:
"testimony which they had"?
"testimony of the Lamb which they had"?
"testimony of Yeshua which they had"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:9
King James Bible
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,
and for the testimony which they held:
World English Bible
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been killed for the Word of God,
and for the testimony of the Lamb which they had.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been murdered for the word of God
and for the testimony of Yeshua which they had.

Revelation 6:9 - When He opened [the fifth seal], I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been killed for the Word of GOD
and for the testimony of Jesus that they had.
when He - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek TR, MHT, NA28. Sometimes one finds a translation that says "then the Lamb." However, that text has no support in the manuscripts.
because of the testimony ... they had - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek MHT reads: "for the testimony they had of the Lamb", while the reading of the Greek NA28 and TR does not contain the words "of the Lamb" and "of Jesus".

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 6:10 originally had:
Despotēs/ Δεσπότης/ Master?
MrYa i.e. Master YHWH? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:10 interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-10.htm
1203 [e] Despotēs Δεσπότης

Revelation 6:10
Young's Literal Translation
and they were crying with a great voice, saying, 'Till when, O Master, the Holy and the True, dost Thou not judge and take vengeance of our blood from those dwelling upon the land?'
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And they cried with a great voice, and they were saying, “How long, LORD JEHOVAH, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood upon the inhabitants of The Earth?”

Revelation 6:10 - They cried with a loud voice and said, "How long, (O) holy and true Lord, do You not judge and avenge our blood against the inhabitants of the earth?"
LORD - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta, who knows the name Mar-Jah as the unique Aramaic Name of the LORD, a name that corresponds to the Hebrew Name: YaHWeH, which occurs more than 200 times in the NT of the Aramaic Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR is: Ruler ("despotes", remember the Dutch loanword "despot").

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 6:11 originally had:
the word "number"? (the Crawford ms. lacks "number")

"time"?
"short time"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:11
New International Version
Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
King James Bible
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
World English Bible
A long white robe was given to each of them. They were told that they should rest yet for a while, until their fellow servants and their brothers, who would also be killed even as they were, should complete their course.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And to each and every one of them was given a white robe, and it was said that they should rest for a little season of time until their companions and their brothers were also perfected, who were going to be killed, even as they had been.

Revelation 6:11 - And a long white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while until their fellowservants also and their brethren should be full (numbered), who should be killed just like them. turn into.
vol [(numberig)] - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek MHT and TR. The reading of the Greek NA28 reads: "Until the number also was full."
short time - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and TR. In the reading of the Greek MHT the word "short" is missing.

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 6:13 originally had:
"unripe figs"?
"figs"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:13 interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-13.htm
3653 [e] olynthous ὀλύνθους unripe figs

3653. olunthos
https://biblehub.com/greek/3653.htm
an unripe fig, one which, not ripening in due time, grows through the winter and falls off in the spring.

Revelation 6:13
King James Bible
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the stars of the Heavens fell upon The Earth, like a fig tree casting its figs when it is shaken by a strong wind.

Revelation 6:13 - and the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree throws off its figs when it is shaken by a strong wind.
his figs - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT, and TR read: "his early figs" or "his unripe figs."

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 6:14 originally had:
"every mountain and island"?
"every mountain and all islands"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:14
New International Version
The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
King James Bible
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the Heavens were parted like scrolls being rolled up, and every hill and all the islands were moved from their places.

Revelation 6:14 - The heavens parted and were rolled up like scrolls, and every mountain and every island were torn from their place.
weeks apart - in the Aramaic Peshitta there is a word here that is reminiscent of the word "split up" in Gen. 10:25 which has been reflected in the name "Peretz", often written as "Peres". Then the earth split, and here in the book of Revelation the heavens split.
every mountain and all islands - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT and TR read: "and every mountain and island."

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 6:15 originally had:
"every slave and every free"?
"every slave and free"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:15
Berean Literal Bible
And the kings of the earth, and the great ones, and the commanders, and the rich, and the powerful,
and every slave and free,
hid themselves in the caves, and among the rocks of the mountains.
King James Bible
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men,
and every bondman, and every free man,
hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 6:15 (Aramaic Peshitta NT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
And the kings of the earth and the great and the rulers of thousands and the rich and the strong [ones] and all the servants and the free men hid themselves in caves and in the rocks of the mountains.

Revelation 6:15 - The kings of the earth and the great and the rulers over a thousand and the rich and the mighty and every slave and free hid themselves in the caverns and in the rocks of the mountains,
and free - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. Only from the Greek TR does the reading read: "and every free".


===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 6:16 originally had:
"hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb"?
"hide us from before the face of the Lamb"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:16
New International Version
They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
King James Bible
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And they said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from before the face of the Lamb,”

Revelation 6:16 - and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of the Lamb,
before the face of the Lamb - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The word "face" is plural in Aramaic, also in Mt. 26:67 where it is about the face of Jesus, while the meaning from the Dutch point of view is singular. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "Hide us from Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb." The words "of Him who sits on the throne and before wrath" are therefore missing in the Aramaic Peshitta.

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 6:17 originally had literally:
"his wrath"?
"their wrath"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:17
New International Version
For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?"
King James Bible
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 6:17 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
BECAUSE THE GREAT DAY OF THEIR ANGER HAS COME AND WHO IS ABLE TO STAND?

Revelation 6:17 - for the great day of his wrath has come, and who can stand!"
his wrath - this is the reading of the Greek MHT and TR. The reading of the Aramaic Peshitta is grammatically plural ("their"), but that plural refers to the plural "faces" in Aramaic, even though it means "one face". In Dutch we make it singular because for us it points back to the face of the Lamb, which is in the singular in Dutch. The reading of the Greek NA28 is "their wrath."

=====================================
Text Note on Revelation 11:17
http://www.jeffriddle.net/2015/08/text-note-on-revelation-1117-and.html

A Student's Guide to New Testament Textual Variants
http://web.ovc.edu/terry/tc/

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:1 originally had:
"After"?
"And after"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:1
New International Version
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
King James Bible
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And after this, I saw four Angels standing over the four corners of The Earth and holding the four winds, that the winds would not blow on The Earth, neither on the Sea, neither on any tree.

Revelation 7:1 - After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that no wind should blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
Hereafter - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28 and MHT. Only from the Greek TR does the reading read: "And after these things." [correction: Crawford has "And after"]
the four winds - see also Jer. 49:36, Dan. 7: 2 and Zach. 6: 5.

===============================================.
In the Aramaic, the seals mentioned in Rom 4:11, 1 Cor 9:2, 2 Tim 2:19, Rev 7:2, and Rev 9:4 is "kh-th-m-a," which is a different word than the seals of scrolls in Rev 5, Rev 6, and Rev 8:1-- the scolls' seals are "t-b-ai-a."
The Greek uses "sphragis" when mentioning both a) seals on scrolls and b) seals not associated with scrolls.

4973. sphragis
https://biblehub.com/greek/4973.htm

Peshitta verses that contains lexeme 1:1188
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/sedra_concordance.php?adr=1:1188&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25&source=

Re: Revelation 7:2's "seal of the living God," do you think "seal" was originally the same word, or a different word, than the "seal" of the scrolls in Rev 5, Rev 6, and Rev 8:1? (the Crawford ms. contains two different words for the scrolls' seals and God's seal)

Revelation 7:2 - And I saw another angel coming up from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living GOD, and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it had been given to harm the earth and sea,
seal - the Aramaic word seal is ... (Katma) [kh-th-m-a]. In vs. 3 contains the verb "to seal" which is related to the word "seal". This applies to both Aramaic and Greek. Incidentally, it is a different word in Aramaic than the word used for the seven seals of the scroll. In Greek it is the same word in both cases, namely ... (Sfragis - G4973).

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:4 originally had:
"all the tribes of the sons of Israel"?
"all the tribes of Israel"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:4
New International Version
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
King James Bible
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I heard the number who were sealed - 144,000, from all the tribes of Israel:

Revelation 7:4 - And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand out of all the tribes of Israel:
all tribes of Israel - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT, and TR read, "all the tribes of the sons of Israel."

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:5 originally had:
"tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed"?
"tribe of Yehudah, 12,000"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"tribe of Gad 12,000 were sealed"?
"tribe of Gad, 12,000"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:5
New International Version
From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
King James Bible
Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
From the tribe of Yehudah, 12,000; from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000; from the tribe of Gad, 12,000;

Revelation 7:5 - From the tribe of Judah twelve thousand, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe Gad twelve thousand,
From the tribe of Judah twelve thousand - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR adds, "sealed." In the reading of the Greek TR we find that word with every tribe, while in the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta we do not find it with any tribe.

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:7 originally had:
"Levi... Issachar"?
"Issachar... Levi"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:7
New International Version
from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
King James Bible
Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
From the tribe of Shimeon, 12,000; from the tribe of Issachar, 12,000; from the tribe of Levi, 12,000;

Revelation 7:7 - from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand,
explanation - the order of the tribes is according to the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta. In the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT, and TR, the tribe of Levi comes second here, followed by the tribe of Issachar.

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:9 originally had:
"I beheld, and, lo"?
"I saw"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:9
King James Bible
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
After this I saw many multitudes which were impossible to count, which were of all people, generations, nations and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, and wearing white garments and with palms in their hands.

Revelation 7:9 - After this I saw a great multitude that no one could number, out of every people and (of every) tribe, and (out of all) nations and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in long white robes and with palm branches in their hands,
I saw - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The Greek NA28, MHT and TR read: "I saw, and see., ...".
people .... tribe ... nations and languages - the first two words are in the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta in the singular and the next two in the plural. In the reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR, only the first word is in the singular and the other three in the plural.

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:11 originally had:
"before his throne"?
"before the throne"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:11
King James Bible
And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts,
and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
World English Bible
All the angels were standing around the throne, the elders, and the four living creatures;
and they fell on their faces before his throne, and worshiped God,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And all of the Angels were standing around the throne and The Elders and The Four Beasts,
and they fell before the throne on their faces,

Revelation 7:11 - And all the angels stood round about the throne, and (also) the elders and the four creatures,
and fell on their faces before the throne,
before the throne - this is the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta and of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR. The reading of the Greek MHT is "before his throne."

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:12 originally had:
"blessing and glory"?
"glory and blessing"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:12
King James Bible
Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Saying, “Amen! Glory and blessing and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength to our God for the eternity of eternities! Amen!

Revelation 7:12 - and said, “Amen! Glory and blessing, wisdom and thanks, honor and might and strength are our GOD for all eternity. Amen!"
Glory and blessing - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT, and TR reads: "The Praise and Glory."

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:14 originally had:
"lord"?
"my lord"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:14
Berean Literal Bible
And I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
King James Bible
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I said to him, “My Lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are those who came from great suffering and they have purified their garments and whitened them in the blood of The Lamb.”

Revelation 7:14 - I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, “These are they who have come out of great tribulation, and they have cleansed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
My lord - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta and the Greek MHT and TR. Only in the reading of the Greek TR the word "my" is missing.

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:15 originally had mention of a tent over people? (the Crawford ms. lacks any mention of a tent over people)

Revelation 7:15
Young's Literal Translation
because of this are they before the throne of God, and they do service to Him day and night in His sanctuary, and He who is sitting upon the throne shall tabernacle over them;

Revelation 7:15 interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/7-15.htm
....4637 [e] skēnōsei σκηνώσει will tabernacle
ep’ ἐπ’ over
autous αὐτούς them

4637. skénoó
https://biblehub.com/greek/4637.htm
Definition: to have one's tent, dwell
Usage: I dwell as in a tent, encamp, have my tabernacle

Rev 7:15 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
Because of this, they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple. And he who sits on the throne will dwell with them.

http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Revelation+7:15&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr=2:3949&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&source=ubs&size=125%25
to protect, shelter
1 to be sheltered (?) ....
1 to protect ....
2 to make (the Holy Spirit) indwell (in Mary or in the Host) .... (a) to make itself indwell
3 to cover (but not necessarily as protection!) .... (a) .... to protect with one's power ....
1 to be made to provide shelter ....

Revelation 7:15 - Therefore they are before the throne of GOD and serve Him day and night in the Temple, and He who sits on the throne will dwell with them.
in the Temple - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR is "in his Temple." [correction: Crawford has "his Temple."]
will live with them - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT, and TR reads: "shall spread his tent over them."

===============================================.
Do you think Revelation 7:17 originally had:
"lead them to living fountains of waters"?
"lead them to life and to springs of water"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

"God will"?
"he will"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 7:17
Young's Literal Translation
because the Lamb that is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters,
and wipe away shall God every tear from their eyes.'
King James Bible
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters:
and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because The Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them
and will lead them unto Life and beside fountains of water,
and he will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

Rev 7:17 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
because the Lamb who is in the middle of the throne will feed them
and will guide them to life and to the fountains of water
and will wipe away all the tears from their eyes."

Revelation 7:17 - for the Lamb that is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them
and lead them to life and to springs of water,
and He will wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
to Life and to springs of water and He will ... - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT, and TR reads: "To springs of water of Life, and GOD will ..."


RE: _The Peshitta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher - DavidFord - 05-29-2021

_The Original Language of the Apocalypse_ by Robert Balgarnie Young Scott (1928), 25pp.
https://docplayer.net/52870343-The-apocalypse-the-original-language-robert-balgarnie-young-scott-m-a-circulate-as-monograph-the-reverend.html
I INTRODUCTORY

The Greek of the Apocalypse is notoriously difficult. As early as the third century, Dionysius of Alexandria says of the author that "his dialect and language are not correct Greek; he makes use of barbarous constructions and sometimes of actual solecisms". "The solecisms are patent. The Hebraistic colouring is evident" comments Moffatt in ILNT, p. 501. A.T. Robertson says that the great number of violations of concord cannot be explained by exceptional parallels elsewhere. After twenty-five years study of the book, Charles comes to the conclusion that the author has "created a Greek that is absolutely his own".

This phenomenon may be explained, in whole or in part, in one or more of the following six ways:
1. Translation from Aramaic.
2. Translation from Hebrew.
3. Reminiscence of the LXX, conscious or unconscious.
4. Deliberate use of O.T. and apocalyptic phraseology.
5. Parallels from current ... [koine] Greek.
6. The author was writing in Greek, but thinking in Aramaic or Hebrew.

Of these, nos. 3 and 4 may operate to some extent, but they cannot begin to explain grammatical peculiarities which run throughout the book. No. 5 reduces the number of passages where the use of a Semitic idiom can be claimed with certainty, but the parallels are exceptional, and no literary work can be pointed out in which such apparent idioms are as frequent, extensive and characteristic as in the Apocalypse.

Charles' own explanation is that the author writes in Greek but thinks in Hebrew. This may be questioned from the following stand-points. An author who is so imperfectly acquainted with Greek would be unlikely to choose it as a medium of literary expression. Again, if he were thinking in one language and writing in another, his thoughts would be expressed in the language of everyday speech, which at this period was not Hebrew but Aramaic.^1 [1: cf. G.F. Moore: Judaism, vol. i, p. 302] Moreover, Charles himself finds this hypothesis insufficient and is forced to postulate translation from Semitic sources, as, for example, in cap. 12. But the idioms of cap. 12 are found elsewhere in places where the use of sources is not suggested. Finally, the transliterations and mistranslations later to be noted are inexplicable on the theory that the Apocalypse was composed in Greek.

Charles unconsciously gives away his case when he says: "the chief Hebraisms in the Apocalypse... are sufficient to prove that it is more Hebraic than the LXX itself". There is only one thing that is more Hebraic than a translation from Hebrew, and that is a translation that is more literal and not so well done.

We come to the conclusion, therefore, that the Apocalypse as a whole is a translation from Hebrew or Aramaic, while leaving room for the possibility of minor editorial alterations after it was in a Greek form. A number of the constructions found are common to both languages, but while there are none which are exclusively Aramaic, there are a number which are exclusively Hebrew. The book is evidently a Hebrew apocalypse translated into Greek to secure its admittance to the New Testament.
....
In the evidence which follows, it will be found that in a very few cases the present writer's results differ from those of Charles in ICC, in a number of cases they coincide, and in a still greater number the evidence submitted is new. The observation of the Hebraic character of the Greek has been carried, by fuller investigation, to the logical conclusion that the Apocalypse is actually a translation. No other hypothesis seem adequate to explain all the phenomena. The strongest evidence is that of transliterations and mistranslations, and if one of these be admitted, the probability in favour of the others is enormously increased. While it must be admitted that, in the nature of the case the demonstration comes short of certainty, it is the belief of the present writer that this explanation covers the facts of the case more satisfactorily than any other.

II HEBREW IDIOMS FOUND IN THE APOCALYPSE ....
III TRANSLITERATIONS AND APPARENT MISTRANSLATIONS FROM HEBREW FOUND IN THE TEXT OF THE APOCALYPSE ....
IV CONCLUSION

If one may be permitted to imitate the oft-quoted words of Driver on the date of Daniel in LOT, it might be fair to say that the mistranslations of the Apocalypse demand, the idioms support, and the general considerations permit the conclusion that in this book we have a Hebrew apocalypse translated into Greek. Charles himself has not been far from this conclusion, and one wonders how, in justice to the evidence he has adduced, he could stop short of it. Indeed he argues in one place that Cap. 12 is a translation, only to withdraw this later, apparently because he sees that it will involve the translation of the whole book. This is more than he is prepared to admit. As a matter of fact, both idioms and mistranslations are widely distributed, and occur in the chapters of Revelation in approximately the following numbers:
I, 16; II, 33; III, 25; IV, 7; V, 14;
VI, 18; VII, 16; VIII, 15; IX, 14; X, 18;
XI, 25; XII, 26; XIII, 27; XIV, 17; XV, 8;
XVI, 16; XVII, 20; XVIII, 14; XIX, 22; XX, 9;
XXI, 14; XXII, 10.

This will not give an exact idea of the frequency of Hebraisms, owing to the variation in the length of chapters, but it will show that they are to be found elsewhere than where sources have been suspected on account of subject matter.

While arguing that the whole book has been translated from Hebrew, the writer does not deny the probability that, in common with most apocalypses, it is composite in origin. There are undeniable distinctions of style and usage between different parts of the book, but the strata seem to be in the Hebrew and not in the Greek.

Finally it must be said that the argument will not appeal with equal force to those who know Hebrew and those who do not. The one will dispute individual points and disprove thereby for himself the whole. The other, with a sense for Hebrew and translation Greek, will _feel_ a force to the argument of which the first is not aware. It is like the argument for religion, which does not depend entirely on statistics.

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Semiticism: seeming-command verb + "and" + verb = If x, then y.

"this do, and live" = 'If you do this, then you will continue to live'
Genesis 42:18 (King James)
And Joseph said unto them the third day, This do, and live; _for_ I fear God:

'surrender, and eat of your vines' = 'If you surrender, then you will eat of your vines'
Isaiah 36:16
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/36-16.htm
(King James) Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus saith the king of Assyria, Make _an agreement_ with me _by_ a present, and come out to me: and eat ye every one of his vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his own cistern;
(NET Bible) Don't listen to Hezekiah!' For this is what the king of Assyria says, 'Send me a token of your submission and surrender to me. Then each of you may eat from his own vine and fig tree and drink water from his own cistern,

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"go and see" = 'If you go, you will see' [Mk 6:38]
"come and see" = 'If you come, you will see' [Jn 1:46, Rev 6:1]

Do you think Mark 6:38 originally had:
"go see"?
"go and see"?

Mark 6:38
Berean Literal Bible
And He says to them, "How many loaves do you have? Go, see."
And having known, they say, "Five, and two fish."
Literal Standard Version
And He says to them, “How many loaves do you have? Go and see”;
and having known, they say, “Five, and two fishes.”
Young's Literal Translation
And he saith to them, 'How many loaves have ye? go and see;'
and having known, they say, 'Five, and two fishes.'

Mark 6:38
https://biblehub.com/texts/mark/6-38.htm
Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants}
.... ὑπάγετε ἴδετε ....
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
.... Ὑπάγετε καὶ ἴδετε ....
Greek Orthodox Church 1904
.... ὑπάγετε καὶ ἴδετε ....
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
.... ὑπάγετε καὶ ἴδετε ....

John 1:46 (Berean Literal)
https://biblehub.com/texts/john/1-46.htm
And Nathanael said to him, "Is any good thing able to be out of Nazareth?"
Philip says to him, "Come and see."

John 1:46
Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants}
.... Ἔρχου καὶ ἴδε.
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
.... Ἔρχου καὶ ἴδε.
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
.... Ἔρχου καὶ ἴδε

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Do you think Revelation 6:1 originally had:
" Ἔρχου"/ "Come"?
" Ἔρχου καὶ ἴδε"/ "Come and see"?
" Ἔρχου καὶ βλέπε"/ "Come and look"?
"Come and see/look"? (the Crawford ms. contains that)

Revelation 6:1
Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants}
.... Ἔρχου.
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
.... Ἔρχου καὶ ἴδε.
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
.... Ἔρχου καὶ βλέπε

hat tip:
_The Apocalypse and Semitic Syntax_ (Society for New Testament Studies Monograph Series, Series Number 52) by Steven Thompson (1985), 155pp., 94-95
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Semitic-Society-Testament-Monograph/dp/0521260310/