Example 3

Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Archived thread - Read only 
Previous Topic | Next Topic 
Home Conferences Peshitta (Public)
Original message

 Paul Younan EMail Paul YounanCheck IP address of this member "Example 3"
Apr-23-2003 at 11:45 PM (GMT3)
Akhi Sieg,

When I call you "Ahki" - what am I saying?

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

  TOP

 Table of contents

RE: Example 3
Sieg Apr-24-2003 at 00:44 AM (1)
RE: Example 3
Paul Younan Apr-24-2003 at 00:55 AM (2)
RE: Example 3
Sieg Apr-24-2003 at 01:05 AM (3)
RE: Example 3
Paul Younan Apr-24-2003 at 04:45 AM (4)
RE: Example 3
Sieg Apr-24-2003 at 06:26 AM (5)

Lobby | Forum Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Messages in this topic

 Sieg EMail SiegView member profileCheck IP address of this member 1. "RE: Example 3"
Apr-24-2003 at 00:44 AM (GMT3)
>Akhi Sieg,
>
>When I call you "Ahki" -
>what am I saying?
>

You are saying "my brother"

  TOP

 Paul Younan EMail Paul YounanCheck IP address of this member 2. "RE: Example 3"
Apr-24-2003 at 00:55 AM (GMT3)
Well, how do you pronounce Akhi in Aramaic?

Please liberally use any number of English characters to represent the sound phonetically.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

  TOP

 Sieg EMail SiegView member profileCheck IP address of this member 3. "RE: Example 3"
Apr-24-2003 at 01:05 AM (GMT3)
>Well, how do you pronounce Akhi
>in Aramaic?
>
>Please liberally use any number of
>English characters to represent the
>sound phonetically.
>

Gosh, this is pretty difficult..

a-kEy

  TOP

 Paul Younan EMail Paul YounanCheck IP address of this member 4. "RE: Example 3"
Apr-24-2003 at 04:45 AM (GMT3)
Akhi Sieg,

> Gosh, this is pretty difficult..
> a-kEy

You are 100% correct - it would be pronounced "Akh-eee".

This is called a Possessive Pronoun. Broken down grammatically, it is constructed using the noun "Akha" ("brother") dropping the final Alaph and appending a Yodh ("ee", "mine") to the end to signify the 1st-person possessive.

In every dialect of Aramaic, this final Yodh ("ee") would be vocalized.

In every dialect, that is, except one. That one single exception happens to be, you guessed it, "Syriac".

Here are the 2 lessons from Thackston's grammar:






So as you can see, in "Syriac" - the 1st-person singular enclitic which ends a Possessive Pronoun is not vocalized.

Pretty strange, huh? So in "Syriac" we would vocalize "Akh" instead of "Akh-ee". In fact, if you read Akhan Abudar's posts, you will see that he properly addresses me as "Akh Paul" instead of "Akhi Paul", according to the rules of "Syriac" vocalization.

So now, what does this have to do with Meshikha's dialect as preserved in the Greek NT?

Well, the reading in this example is Mark 7:11 - we read in the Greek:

"But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, "Whatever support you might have had from me is Corban (that is, an offering to God)" (GNT)

In the Aramaic of the Peshitta, however, we read:

"But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, "Whatever support you might have had from me is Ynbrwq (Qurbanee)" (ANT)

Without, of course, a need to have the portion in the paranthesis!

Now, Akhi - what sayest thou concerning this? Chalk up point 3?

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

  TOP

 Sieg EMail SiegView member profileCheck IP address of this member 5. "RE: Example 3"
Apr-24-2003 at 06:26 AM (GMT3)
>Pretty strange, huh? So in
>"Syriac" we would vocalize "Akh"
>instead of "Akh-ee". In
>fact, if you read Akhan
>Abudar's posts, you will see
>that he properly addresses me
>as "Akh Paul" instead of
>"Akhi Paul", according to the
>rules of "Syriac" vocalization.

I have a story that relates to this, somewhat. It was my first time in King Fahd's mosque in Los Angeles. In fact, it was my first time at a mosque period. My mother's friend, a Sunni Muslim, drove me there to teach me about my newfounded faith. When we got there, he took me directly to the restroom to perform wudu before entering the prayer house. Subsequently, he took me to observe this older Muslim with headcovering, so I could learn how to bow. As I observed in awe of God, he start telling me the ways to address my brother. He said, "When you address a Muslim, you say 'Salaam Akhi' which means 'my brother.' However, never refer to him as 'Akh.' It does not mean 'Bro.' It is considered informal, even disrespectful among the elders."
>
>So now, what does this have
>to do with Meshikha's dialect
>as preserved in the Greek
>NT?
>
>Well, the reading in this example
>is Mark 7:11 - we
>read in the Greek:
>
>"But you say that if anyone
>tells father or mother, "Whatever
>support you might have had
>from me is Corban
>(that is, an offering to
>God)
" (GNT)
>
>In the Aramaic of the Peshitta,
>however, we read:
>
>"But you say that if anyone
>tells father or mother, "Whatever
>support you might have had
>from me is Ynbrwq
(>color=blue]Qurbanee)" (ANT)
>
>Without, of course, a need to
>have the portion in the
>paranthesis!
>
>Now, Akhi - what sayest thou
>concerning this? Chalk up
>point 3?
>

Zorba the Listless seemingly had the habit of citing the original Aramaic from the Meshikha, but then translating it for his reader. One can only conclude that the scribe was translating for the comfort of people with a different tongue (eg. Koine Greek). Therefore, I can only conclude that he is doing what good scribe does: translate. If he was translating, there must have been a source. It could have only been from the Aramaic.

  TOP


REMOVE

Lobby | Forum Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic