David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby The Texas RAT » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:19 am

Luc Lefebvre wrote:Since you seem to be caught up in Peshitta VS Peshitto thing though, note that the AENT lines up with the eastern Peshitta except in the case of the western 5 that are not part of it. On the other hand, Magiera's translation, although called the Peshitta, is actually the Peshitto.


Hey Luc, there are NO (COMPLETE) TRUE ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE EASTERN PESHITTA! Neither Roth's, Magira's, or Bauscher's should lay claim to the Eastern PeshittA. And no I do not think the PeshittO is better than the PeshittA ScorpioSniper2. Boy if you were a real sniper you would have just shot the wrong guy (ouch). But yes I take truth to an extreme, that is to the point where no lie lie within.

I do believe that the Eastern PeshittA is the closest form of the Words of our Adon and Savior than any other text, be it Aramaic, Greek, Latin, or the beloved English KJV. And I got this way from reading the stuff posted at Peshitta.org!!! If you want to blame some one for my enthusiastic belief pertaining to the PeshittA please place credit where it is due.

And on that note there may be no criminal acts against man's laws through Roth's version, though I do believe Civil actions could be taken and won by any one whom bought his version and found out that he falsly advertised it. But it is not any violation of man's laws that is the problem here in the first place. Roth not only doesn't give adequate/truthful credit to Paul Younan or James Murdock as the real authors of the his work but also Roth is not being completely truthful as to his part. And to keep any one from becoming lead astray on this point I felt a need to try and clear things up if possible, as I was one of those people that had belived Roth, as you seem to be Luc, and then after stumbling across this post began to envestagate the truth of the matter and mirely have tried to expose my findings,
after which any one can, with the evidence exposed, judge for themselves :whaasup: .

Though I will say here and now that, even though I can not be won back, I absolutely prefer the flavor of Roth's version over Paul Younan's and Murdock's translations, as Roth does not use the pagan deity's name GOD in place of YHWH's tile Alaha/Elohim, nor does he (Roth) use the title LORD (Hebrew: Ba'al) in place of the Divine Name YHWH, which is how I would edit a translation if and when I do a version. As these are two very important things spoken of in YHWH's Book (See: Shemoth [Exodus] 20:7, Yeshah-YawHu [Isaiah] 42:8, Wayyiqra [Leviticus] 18:21, Debareem [Deuteronomy] 12:3, Shemoth [Exodus] 23:13, Hoshayah [Hosea] 2:16, Malawkee [Malachi] 2:7, and Yirme-YawHu [Jeremiah] 23:27).

I hope and pray for the day when the Eastern PeshittA has been truthfully translated accurately into the English Language, with the Western 5 books following either within their own volume or as an Appendix. :cool:
To whom it may concern - :bigups: YHWH's Speed!
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby Luc Lefebvre » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:05 am

The Texas RAT wrote:
Luc Lefebvre wrote:nor does he (Roth) use the title LORD (Hebrew: Ba'al) in place of the Divine Name YHWH, which is how I would edit a translation if and when I do a version.

Note that in Hebrew, LORD is actually Adonai, which is written in reference to our Creator many times in Tanach. Ba'al may translate the same in English, but they are two different words in Hebrew and so should not be mixed up when being brought into another language. Although, if you think the word Ba'al is so bad, you should try reading the Hebrew of Jeremiah 31:32 (verse 31 in Hebrew),

(It won't let me post the Hebrew, so unless you grab your own Hebrew Bible, go here - http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/hebr ... emiah.html - and scroll down to 31:32)

Here in this verse, our Heavenly Father actually calls Himself Ba'al (4th last word) with no reference what so ever to the false idol that carries the same vocal sound to refer to it (I won't say name because name implies so much more than a simple sound in Hebrew). In any case, no matter which way you look at it, Paul's choice of translating Marya as LORD is linguistically accurate and theologically acceptable according to sound doctrine. Even if Marya strongly implies a reference to our Heavenly Father the Almighty, note that we don't actually see the Hebrew Tetragrammaton in the Aramaic text.
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby The Texas RAT » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:10 am

Luc,

Paul Younan himself argues vehimently that MarYa stands for Lord-YaH in the following post (read Paul's post through pages 8-14): viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2569&hilit=marya+lord&start=105#p17068
And if this is true, in which I have no doubt, ( not to mention the evidence of Place Holders within the early Greek Text) the Short Form of The Divine Name is strewn throughout the Aramaic RC/NT of the Eastern and Western Peshitto.

And I am well aware that forms of Ba'al are used twice in Scripture referring to YHWH. But if you want to know why I slipped it in where I did you will have to read the verses I listed, preferably in the order listed, to gain the understanding as to why I did so.

Now as to you statement that "Note that in Hebrew, LORD is actually Adonai, which is written in reference to our Creator many times in Tanach" is misleading as Adonai had only been translated as Lord [never LORD], all the while it is the Divine Name YHWH that is being RENDERED as LORD! OK that's enough for this rabbit trail.

You seem to have missed the points that I was making altogether.

But if one prefers using LORD in place of MarYa or GoD in place of Adonai they can simply use Murdock's and Paul's translations over Roth's version.
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby Thirdwoe » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:26 am

Luc,

According to the Aramaic and Hebrew Scriptures, Marya/MarYah/MasterYAH is M'shikha/Messiah/Christ = Y'shua/Eshu/Jesus is YHWH.

You know this right?

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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby ScorpioSniper2 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:29 am

While I believe most of the NT was originally written in Greek, one thing that makes me have such a strong respect for the Peshitta is the fact that is so clearly declares the deity of the Lord Jesus. It'd be important to for a perfect man to give his life for you, but it means a lot knowing that the Creator of the world is the One who laid His life down for sinful humanity on the cross.
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby Thirdwoe » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:05 am

Amen to that...

Hey, SS2, have you found any iron clad proof that any books of the NT were 1st written down in Greek? If so, please show me, cause I'd like to check it out for myself...and why could it not be this way...The Apostles 1st wrote in their regular language, and then had them, that day, or week or so later, translated for those who spoke in Greek, or Latin...while the Aramaic letter and copies of them were sent to those who spoke Aramaic, such as all those Jewish Christians in the Diaspora, in which the Apostle Paul preached 1st to, in all their Synagogues in Asia Minor and even Greece.

Try this...go look up all the places in the Book of Acts, where Paul enters a city of the Gentiles...and see who he most often goes fishing for...

Many of these posts here have shown many things that show an Original Aramaic NT, linguistically speaking...And this is not a new idea either, as I just found the Greek Church leader/teacher, Clement of Alexandria talking about how the Apostle Paul wrote his letter 1st to the Hebrews, and then Luke, his helper, translated it...presumably into Greek...which seems to be what he is saying there.


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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby ScorpioSniper2 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:11 am

I don't believe Paul wrote Hebrews, it seems to be missing a lot of Paul's signatures (such as the usual Pauline greeting used in his known Epistles). Hebrews and Matthew are the two Books I believe could have been written in Aramaic, Matthew especially. They have found a first century manuscript of Mark in Greek. All of the oldest manuscripts of the New Testament are written in Greek. Also, I doubt that Paul was speaking to the Gentiles in Greece in the Aramaic language, much less writing to Gentile churches in this. The isolated Aramaic phrases in the Scriptures don't prove much other than that the author and the people the author wrote of had knowledge of Aramaic. I don't have a problem with the NT being written in Aramaic, but I just don't think it is so. The international language back then was not Aramaic, but Greek. Sure, the Jewish people and other Semitic people spoke Aramaic as their common language, but I'm sure most of them could speak Greek too. Archeology shows that Greek was also widely spoken in Palestine (Caiaphas' tomb's inscription was written in Greek). Think about this also, when the Jewish people in Europe wouldn't listen to Paul, who did he go to afterward? The Syro-Phenician woman Jesus spoke to is also identified as a Greek, so Jesus would have most likely spoken to her in Greek! I'm sure the Romans didn't converse in Aramaic very well, so I'm sure Jesus spoke with the Roman soldiers He met during His ministry in Greek.
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby Luc Lefebvre » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:27 am

Thirdwoe wrote:Luc,

According to the Aramaic and Hebrew Scriptures, Marya/MarYah/MasterYAH is M'shikha/Messiah/Christ = Y'shua/Eshu/Jesus is YHWH.

You know this right?

Yup. "Marya haw Eshoa" -Rav Shaul

The Texas RAT wrote:the Hebrew word/name of GoD denotes being fortunate in the sense of luck.

Yes, the Hebrew word gad means fortune. But we're not speaking Hebrew, we're speaking english. In English, God is Elohim.

As for your sacred name theology, this isn't the place to debate that. But name in Hebrew/Aramaic denotes character and reputation, not a sound to be pronounced vocally. Only by approaching the text with this understanding can we grasp what the Almighty means when He speaks about His "name".

ScorpioSniper2 wrote:I don't believe Paul wrote Hebrews, it seems to be missing a lot of Paul's signatures (such as the usual Pauline greeting used in his known Epistles).

The church founders explain this by saying that since Paul wasn't the most popular guy in Jerusalem (hence the plan they came up with for Paul in Acts 21 to prove to everyone that he still observes Torah) Paul didn't write his greetings because some may have rejected the teaching if they knew it was from him, thinking that he was there to teach them to forsake Moses (Acts 21:20-21). Personally I think Paul wrote it because in the text we see the same issues regarding the Law that everyone argues about in his other epistles, we see an entire chapter (just like in Romans) proving that everyone was justified by faith, and we also see (in the opening of Hebrews) christological statements that are very Pauline ("the exact image of His nature"... compare that with in Colossians how he says that Christ is the "visible image of the invisible God"). Things like this point me to Pauline authorship, and everyone in the early church testifies to this as well except for Rome for some reason.
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby ScorpioSniper2 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:34 pm

I've never thought about that, honestly! Interesting. I know that the Church of the East and many people in the Western church believe that Paul wrote it. I don't know if it was Paul or not, but I do think it is obvious that this was someone associated with Paul (based on the similarities in theology and the mention of Timothy).
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby Luc Lefebvre » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:09 am

Yeah we may never be able to know for sure, but you're right in that if it wasn't Paul, it was someone closely associated with him (my Rav thinks it's Barnabas).
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby The Texas RAT » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:01 pm

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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby ScorpioSniper2 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:27 am

I know Barnabus, Apollos, and Luke are popular theories. I doubt that Luke wrote it for some reason. Paul, Barnabus, and Apollos are more likely theories.
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby Luc Lefebvre » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:28 am

ScorpioSniper2 wrote:I know Barnabus, Apollos, and Luke are popular theories. I doubt that Luke wrote it for some reason. Paul, Barnabus, and Apollos are more likely theories.

Interestingly, the church founders say that Luke translated it into Greek for Paul though, so, I also doubt it was Luke (and the writing style is definitely not his either).
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby Luc Lefebvre » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:48 am

The Texas RAT wrote:
Luc Lefebvre wrote:
The Texas RAT wrote:the Hebrew word/name of GoD denotes being fortunate in the sense of luck.

Yes, the Hebrew word gad means fortune. But we're not speaking Hebrew, we're speaking english. In English, God is Elohim.


See: http://www.mediafire.com/?at9mc39wtv4d33g

Do you realize what you're actually doing? You are giving both glory and power to an idol that doesn't even exist and is in fact powerless. Paul gave us some important lessons in 1 Corinthians chapters 8 and 10 about this in regards to food sacrificed to idols. Search those Scriptures with a heart willing to recieve and you may be surprised what you learn. Only a weak conscious would stumble at these supposed language problems. There is however no power in the sound of the lips, only the meaning and faith behind those sounds in the language/dialect you happen to be speaking (so it would be your faith causing you to stumble, not the sound of the word). Gad in English is fortune. Elohim in English is God. There is no issue that the English word God and the Hebrew word Gad are pronounced the same. If it was an issue, then you would have to stop saying Elohim as well since it was also used and applied to a Canaanite deity of light. Or even worse, in Aramaic, Alaha was a word used and called upon to worship many sun gods. The linguistics simply do not support this silly theology, nor do they bear even a single shred of fruit for the Kingdom. On the contrary, Yeshua rebukes this kind of behavior in the religious establishments many times, and we can expect to be rebuked ourselves come judgment day if we don't get our act together. Names in semitic languages are used to describe a character, not merely to address them as a person. King of Kings and Lord of Lords would be one such example of a name, although in English we would call those titles. In Hebrew however there is no such thing as a title, only names. Perhaps this article by Tim Hegg may help you - http://www.torahresource.com/EnglishArt ... %201-3.pdf
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Re: David Bauscher Peshitta Translation

Postby ScorpioSniper2 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:14 pm

This is not making an idol. Elohim is actually a plural noun used for God, not denoting a Trinity as some would say, but the majesty and infiniteness of God. God is simply the English word to describe a deity. God knows who you're talking to, whether you call Him Yahweh, Jehovah, Adonai, Adown, Elohim, Alaha, Allah, Eloah, Jesus, Lord, Yeshua, Eshoa or simply Christ. God and "gad" are simply pronounced the same way, they are not the same word! Jesus is not a pagan name either, it is simply the English translation of the Greek Iesous, which is the Greek version of Yeshua/Yehoshua. I am sure that when Paul was preaching to the Gentiles in Rome, referred to the Messiah as Iesous Christos and not Yeshua haMashiyach. Iesous means "YHWH salvation", just like Yeshua.
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