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Philemon 1:1 Prisoner of Jesus
#1
I may be pushing my luck with this one. The primary meaning of the word in the Greek is "prisoner" (of Jesus) which sounds very bad. Strong's lists bound as well as a meaning at prisoner with 16 times and bound only once.

The Aramaic hrys0 can mean prisoner but can mean sergeant and even bound. so refer to a bondsman? bondsman is a slave, servant, bondsman also has a meaning of accepting responsibility for another, making a lot of sense of this verse. e.g. Paul is being a martyr FOR Jesus, imprisoned, but He is not the prisoner OF Jesus! Taking all the meanings together we get a wonderful picture, Paul is a sergeant of Jesus' movement, He is a
servant of Jesus, He is being punished martyr-style for Jesus, but he
is NOT a prisoner of Jesus!

I think the Greek lovers may fight this one based on the dodgy definitions by Strong, but all the Greek based versions don't say prisoner for nothing. And prisoner of Jesus sounds so bad.

Maybe someone can find a variant for this and strengthen it thusly.
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#2
It is to be noted that even the most literal versions, Young's and LITV read "prisoner of Jesus".
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#3
This example is bigger than I thought. It is spread throughout the GREEK? epistles and also, many English versions do betray the "original Greek", such as the AMP version which ADMITS that it has to add the "for the sake of". Because the Greek is simply "prisoner of Jesus".
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#4
Shlama Akhi Byrnesey,

You might have a point here! Due to the fact that this word is in the emphatic state and has a singular suffix, this would read more literally as "Paul, the bound-one of Yeshua the Messiah,...." etc.
This would be more conducive to the meaning of "I'm inseparably linked to Yeshua and his purposes for my life, regardless of my outward circumstances!"...or 'bound for Yeshua's sake' as opposed to 'shut up against His will and mine.' I hope I'm following your train of thought all the way here. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

This word is also a participle adjective so maybe akhan Paul can open our eyes a little further as far as an ultra-literal translation is concerned. <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=1673">http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=1673</a><!-- m -->

Shlama w'Burkate, Larry Kelsey
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#5
Shlama:
Did you see the Greek variants? I think they're interesting here:
(besides the "order" of words, D (beza) has apostolov
de 629 ms has apostolov demiov and 323, 945 and few others have doulov (servant). So that means that even Greek scribes tended to improve the Greek ambiguity. Anyway, I think that "prisoner of Crist" just means "Prisoner BECAUSE OF Christ"
Ab Valentin
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#6
Shlama:
Did you see the Greek variants? I think they're interesting here:
(besides the "order" of words, D (beza) has apostolov
629 ms has apostolov demiov and 323, 945 and few others have doulov (servant). So that means that even Greek scribes tended to improve the Greek ambiguity. Anyway, I think that "prisoner of Crist" just means "Prisoner BECAUSE OF Christ"
Ab Valentin
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#7
Hmmm... Some say prisoner, some say apostle and some say servant? You have just found a split word, a triple split word in fact, seeing as that the Aramaic can have all these meanings <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->
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#8
I think this example has turned into an absolute goldmine for Peshitta primacy. Valentin's excellent ability to find these variants "prisoner", "servant", "Apostle" and "prisoner apostle" has made this example a very very major proof. All 4 of these variants in the various Greek texts can easily be compared to the Aramaic hrys0 which can mean sergenat, servant, bondsman, prisoner etc.

This is no regular split word. Not even a triple split word that can make me salivate... This is a quadruple split word (a world first?).

Add to this the very next verse (Philemon 1:2) with the beloved/sister split word, and the Semitic construction throughout Philemon, and Greek primacists will be very hard pressed to claim this as their own. Now if a letter written by a Greek-speaking person, to a Greek-speaking Greek, in Greece, is proven in this way to have been originally written in Aramaic. What hope do Greek primacists have with the books that are more likely to have Semitic originals (such as matthew and Hebrews).
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#9
Valentin, how do you find all these amazing variants? Do you actually have all these manuscripts?
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#10
Akhi Byrnesey,

The more I look at this the more solid the evidence is. It's absolutely an incredible find - and you should make a copy of it over on the "Polysemy" forum - or would you like for me to move this thread over there?

Great work guys! <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#11
You may do as you like, I have already made a link to the split word forum. I am writing an article on this and may post it too. All credit must go to Valentin who found the 4-way variant. Such a split word example I have never seen before!
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#12
Woops, I imitated Zorba and misread demios. Most texts have desmios, prisoner, and one text as Valentin shows has apostols demios, public apostle (roughly).
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#13
Akhi Byrnesey, you mentioned the Semitic constructions throughout Philemon. Verse 7--"...the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thy love."
In verse 18, "...place it on my account" is the rough equivalent of "Put it on the cuff" according to George Lamsa. Maybe an Aramaic way of saying "Leave that to me!" or "Let me take care of that!" ?!?!?!? Anyway...just some thoughts here. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
"Refresh thou my bowels" in verse 20 doesn't sound very Greek either unless they're referring to long road trips with few outhouses. Oh well...I shouldn't equate 'relieving the bowels' with 'using the facilities.' <!-- sBlush --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/blush.gif" alt="Blush" title="Blush" /><!-- sBlush -->
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#14
Shlama Akhi Byrnesey:
byrnesey Wrote:Valentin, how do you find all these amazing variants? Do you actually have all these manuscripts?

I have just watched carefully to our dearest allied and the worst enemy of Greek Primacists: The NOVUM TESTAMENTUM GRAECE Nestle Aland 27 edition... Give them the "credit"! (Not to us, Lord, not to us... give the Glory)

323, 945 and few others have doulov . The "few others" (pauci) is is told so in the NA. They don't clarify which are these "few" mss. 323 is a XII century ms (Geneve bibl) and 945 is from XI century (Mount Athos).

Ab. Valentin
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#15
That is a book I will have to buy. Larry, when I meant construction, I meant grammar, such as the order of adjectives and subjects. But yes, I suppose there are quite a few Semitic idioms there too.
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