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The name of Mary's father or maybe guardian
The name of Mary's father or maybe guardian

According to Paul Younan, his name is Joseph

Traditional Christian apologetics plays with the genealogies and says that name is Heli.

So does Talmud.

Muslims say "Imran"/"Amran".

Guess what NT apocrypha "Protevangelium of James" says? "Joachim"

That's closer to Joseph then all the other names <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->
For all involved, I would ignore such topics as this, they lead to speculation, distraction, and arguements. Chris brings this topic up whenever he needs someone to argue with. Paul was not the originator of the "guardian theory" and does not back it fully, hence it is just that, a theory. Paul told me specifically that he is unsure of it and would need more time to validate it.

Again, this topic is a waste of time.
For someone who is apparently a born again Christian Dave, you can be a real jerk. Running around here as if it is your job to delegate. We were fine again up until the trinity issue. How shallow of you to treat me so just because I don't belive in the trinity like so many others here, such as AGR and Craig. I do not feel likewise about you, though you deny that Jesus is the Father. If you like, as I suggested mind you, let us debate the trinity vs. Jesus is the Father issue, preferably by email, so we can resolve our problem.

As for this issue, it is not a waste of time. I am trying to see the relation between Yosip and Joachim. And looking at other sources to CONFIRM Paul's theory, as I agree with it and it solves the 14-14-13 contradiction of the Greek. If you want to be a stumbling block in that work of apologetics, then maybe you are not the great Christian you think you are. After all, so many of us here do not speak in tongues, so according to you we don't have the Holy Spirit. All worship the great Akhan Dave, filled with the Holy Spirit, while denying that Jesus is the Father...

Once again, let us discuss the issue in a calm, repectful, light-hearted manner, by email. Trinity vs. Jesus is the Father. What say you bro? Wait I already know the answer... "That's a waste of time..." Or maybe it will be time well spent bro, because there is a lot of this Father stuff in the OT AND NT that you have most probably never heard. And I would rather discuss with you privately than posting it here, lest I get caught on the nasty trip-wire of Dave the delegator.
Please gimme your email so we can resolve our issues away from here, even if we do not debate.
heh, such hostility.

You and your debates Chris. Really it's of no use since your not born again little man. 95% of Christianity accepts the Triune nature of GOD, and that includes the COE, yet we are wrong huh? heh, and you just found that out here lately and we are suppose to change huh?

You need to repent and be born again.
Out to prove yourself Chris?

That's quite worldly of you.
as anyone can see, the distractions set in quick from him, and his object is just to argue with someone.

I would suggest people avoid these topics with Chris as he really doesn't have a clue to GOD's leading and revelation since he is not born again.
You insult not just me but Andgrew Gabriel Roth also (who also believes Jesus is the Father) a man who has done a helluva lot more for the Peshitta cause than you ever will. Most Christians also ignore teh Sabbath, that doesn't make it right now does it?

I tire of talking with you and your immaturem hostile attitude. If you will not discuss with me like men, then just stay out of my way. I am trying to work on primacy proofs and see how the Peshitta impacts Christianity, and for you to stand in my way shows that you are not of God, you are of Satan. Think about it. Am I trying to hinder you in anyway? No. But nearly every move I make here, you are wanting to interrupt and badmouth me to others. And this started recently when I rejected the trinity, an unBiblical doctrine which stems from Satan's paganism. You are doing Satan, your Father's bidding.

Discuss with me by email or stay out of my way. If you will not either resolve with me by email or leave me be on these forums, one of us must leave.
Your demands are quite worldly.

I think you do no justice to any sort of primacy, either for greek or aramaic, you do more to argue with folks and put others down than point out any facts.

You need to be born again, start seeking salvation and quit running from it.
My demands to resolve our dispute so that these boards can be free of this, are wordly? Okay... Well since you will not resolve with me in private, nor can I speak with you in public, and since you do not agree to stay out of my face, we must ask Paul to ban one of us. I am already preparing to leave.
Well that is fine Chris, is you so desire to.

If paul asks me about it I'll talk to him.

Again, I caution anyone in posting to such topics as these, they do nothing but lead to arguements from Chris. He brings this and other topics up every few months and rehashes the same stories, so it is nothing new.
I should post about Chris's debate style also so folks know where he is coming from and what to avoid.

Chris will want your full name and email address. Then he will begin a debate that will go nowhere, and i mean that, nowhere. You could post any amount of scripture you want and he will refute every bit of it. You could be as sincere in your heart and post the truth, but he will refute it. His object is to make you upset of the debate and withdrawl by refuting over and over till you just get tired. Then he will post it on his sight and run you in the ground by claiming he wins. Very Christian of him huh? This is his style, you can see his ongoing debates that he does with folks on his site.

There is his desire to debate, and the outcome anyone should expect from him. It's not like it would do any good to debate him, he has other alternatives with it.
Dear Chris and Dave,

I have followed your postings since the beginning and I think I know when was the first time both of you had your first disagreement. Can both of you just forgive and forget about your past disagreements? I don't want to see anyone of you leave or banned.

There are many things that we can learn from each other. There is no need for personal attack. In order to teach others, we should first be humble enough to learn. We must understand that we are not The Truth. If we are not open to the possibility that we could be in the wrong or make mistakes, then it is very difficult for us to know The Truth.

Peace be with you both and please try to encourage each other daily to do good works.

Hineh mah tov umah naim shevath akhim gam yakhad (Tehilim 133:1)
One of the first owners of the facsimile of <a href=""><b>Codex Leningrad</b></a>
""Can both of you just forgive and forget about your past disagreements? I don't want to see anyone of you leave or banned.

Exactly, but Dave is unwilling. I wish he were. I offerred long ago to resolve our disagreeances by email away from here and he refused. Then he was gone for a while and things were fine, I was left in peace. Then he recebtly returned and started badmouthing me in threads I started. Why? Because the issues were never resolved. So I asked him again if we can resolve our issues by email, even if we don't have the "trinity debate" I initially wanted. Again he refused. I tried to discuss with him by email. He refused. I tried ignoring him. Didn't work, he butts into my threads badmouthing me. I tried again to discuss with him by email. Again he refused. He rather argue all day long with me here. So you can see my predicament. I seem to be the only one of the two who is willing to discuss and resolves the issues, while he just wants to insult on these boards.

As you are new and don't know the full story. Dave has these "periods" where he causes a lot of crap here. And I am usually the only one who has the balls to say something, so naturally I became his most viable enemy, the hated one if you will. There have been many such periods:

1) Badmouthed us that we had too much focus on the Aramaic. ironically his criticisms led to him inadvertently giving us a Peshitta solved Greek contradiction!

2) Said that only those who speak in tongues have the Holy Spirit. UnBiblical and goes against nearly everyone here. Thinks he can just go around telling people they don't have the Holy Spirit because they don't speak in tongues.

3) Criticised the other Dave on his codes work proclaiming that they were a waste of time. What other people's work has to do with Dave is beyond me.

4) Criticised me and others for looking for Peshitta proof all the time, claiming that "he already knows". How self-centered, it's not all about Dave... Shucks... He said that we all should help Paul translate the Peshitta not playing these "games". Ironically, later he got Paul to promise that he would translate the Odes of Solomon. Why this "non-Peshitta project" and "time-waster" wouldn't offend Dave is beyind me!

5) Arguing with me on the trinity and probably upset because of being unable to show me one verse that says "God is three", without referring to the Comma (fraudulently inserted into the KJV etc) in 1John. He didn't like that I put the Comma discussion in my divinity article, which is a) truthful and b) again, none of his business... Of course, in true Dave style, he rejected my offer to discuss the topic by email, declaring it a... waste of time...

6) Now, out of the blue, coming back and raising crap in an innocent thread I had where I wanted to see if anyone can link Joachim to Yoisp - an important quest in apologetics. Why he chose such an innocent thread to say that I just want to argue with people is beyond me, especially as I have always agreed with Paul that Yosip fathered (or was guardian of) Mary.

The trinity issue seems to be the big problem, because just before that we were completely fine. He supported me with my debate with Conder (while now criticising it...) and my Sabbath section of my article. It seems that the trinity is more important to him than whetehr or not one believes Jesus is the Son of God or not (siding with a Muslim over a Christian).

Too much rubbish, and it isn't worth it. Contributes little and stirs up lots of crap. I wonder why we have no moderators here. The biggest issue is that I never stand in his way and disrupt his threads, but he is always there to bite at my heels. Enough is enough.
Dan, when he repents of his life and asks The Lord to come into his heart, then I think he would understand more.

he refuses to accept salvation.

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