genealogy of Jesus

[benyamin]

Hi,Your article on geneaology of Our Lord ,Jesus Christ written in the gospel of St. Mattew and interpreting Gawra as Blessed Mary's father and not his husband is interesting.But what about Church tradition that names her Father as Yonakhir.how you reconcile this name with the name of Joseph?

[drmlanc]

Other tradition (i.e Talmudic) names her father as Heli. Fact is more important than tradition. Wow, Akhi Paul's article deals quite a blow to the Talmud!

[Rob]

But what about Church tradition that names her Father as Yonakhir.how you reconcile this name with the name of Joseph?

I'm not apostolic in any sense of the word but I think the difference could be in the dialect itself. For example, the names "Yonatan" and "Yochanan" both influence Western pronunciation of John (English), Jean (French), Jonathan (English), Yoachim (German), etc.

[rdf]

Other tradition (i.e Talmudic) names her father as Heli.

Would you please give a specific info of this name of Talmud (i.e chapter, verse, volume, etc)

Tawdee,

rudolf

[slouchingpoet]

It's from the Jerusalem Talmud (in the mishna of Haggigah) and the reason no one can give you a reference is because most citations of it are based on made-up info and any closer examination shows that it doesn't refer to the Christian Mary at all. You mostly hear that from Christian polemics or missonary material.

Joachim is only a tradition among Catholics, Anglicans and the Orthodox. Protestants tend toward Eli. And now the Gawra theory provides yet more speculation.

[Stephen Silver]

It's from the Jerusalem Talmud (in the mishna of Haggigah) and the reason no one can give you a reference is because most citations of it are based on made-up info and any closer examination shows that it doesn't refer to the Christian Mary at all. You mostly hear that from Christian polemics or missonary material.

Joachim is only a tradition among Catholics, Anglicans and the Orthodox. Protestants tend toward Eli. And now the Gawra theory provides yet more speculation.

Shlama:
The word gowra simply means man, father or husband. It's contextual use determines its precise meaning. In Matthew 1:16 it ends the geneology and so its meaning is father. Miryam's husband Yosef isn't mentioned till Matthew 1:18. This is one verse after the three generational counters of 14 generations each in Matthew 1:17. Incidentally, gowra in Matthew 1:16 ends with the letter Heh. All other occurrences in the Peshitta New Testament end in the letter Alap. It's unique in this way. Paul Younan explained this grammatically, but I can't recall his explanation.
The simplest way to restore 3x14 generations mentioned in Matthew 1:17 without adding to the text is to interpret gowra in Matthew 1:16 to mean father. This means that Miryam's father was named Yosef and Miryam's espoused husband was also named Yoseph. Yosef was a popular contemporary name as were the names Yeshua and Miryam. The gowra explanation of the text has nothing to do with names given in pseudepigraphia. It's simply a non-traditional way of reconciling two anomalies of the New Testament textual tradition.

1) Our LORD Yeshua Meshikha was the physical descendent of the kingly line of David through Solomon. (Acts 2:30, I Chronicles 28:7)

2) The third list of 14 generations, without correction contains only 13 generations. (Matthew 1:17)

The lineage of Luke 3:23-38 is David's descendency through Nathan, so the traditional flip-flop of lineages introduces a contradiction within the text.

Shlama,
Stephen
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[Mike Kar]

Stephen, anyone??

I was wondering what you mean by "flip-flop" of Luke's geneology of Y'shua??

Also, I am wondering if someone could help me find an article on this WEB-SITE about the geneology of Y'shua in Luke. I thought I had come across this article by Paul Younan some time ago but I just raced or "scanned" through it. One of the things I remember is that he was comparing the names that were included in Luke's geneology with those same names in the Greek Septuagint and comparing the spellings. But to the best of my recollection he the article was written as a case for Aramaic Primacy. I can't find it. Help me, please.

Anyone know where this article is???

Glory be to His Name for He is good.

Mike karoules

[Stephen Silver]

Stephen, anyone??

I was wondering what you mean by "flip-flop" of Luke's geneology of Y'shua??

Shlama Akhi Mike:
I understand that the geneology of Matthew is that of Miryam and the geneology of Luke is that of Joseph, her husband. This is a "flip-flop" from the traditional view which interprets "gowra" in Matthew 1:16 to mean "husband" rather than "father". In Acts 2:30 it reads that Meshikha must be the direct "physical" descendent of David the king. Also, the kingly line through Solomon, the son of David is that mentioned in Matthew, while Luke's lineage is through Nathan, another son of David.

Shlama,
Stephen
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