11-08-2003, 11:54 AM
""You only have the right to let your enemies murder you. You do not have the right in the Scriptures to stand by and let anyone murder anyone other than yourself.""
For the second phrase, where in the Scriptures is that? Surely, I would do all I could to stop a murder, even at my own life, but if I have to kill the aggressor?
""And we ourselves become guilty of crimes if we let criminals run loose because we are afraid to kill them and send them to Gehenna. That is putting a higher value on the life of criminals than victims and society itself would break down.
""
Where does the NT say such things?
""Unless the Scriptures require it. Y'shu used violence to clear the Temple of the money lenders, etc. Several centurions (professional killers (not murders)) in the Breeta Khadta are spoken of quite highly by Y'shu, and Cornelius was selected by Elaha Himself to be brought into the faith and was not told to change his job because it was wrong to "kill."
""
Do no violence. I again like to see your verses Akhi. Look at what Jesus said when Peter struck the guard! And yes, there was an "angry Jesus", but did He ever hit someone?
""Yes. So you would let the Nazis, or the Japanese, or the Muslims conquer the world unopposed and enslave anyone who they didn't ethnically cleanse?""
It is not my job to kill others. Or even to worry about such wordly things. It is my job to follow Jesus.
Believe you me, for me this is one of the harder things of Christianity. I am a born fighter and found great pleasure in beating people up (in a good way... like a good old wholesome bar fight), especially when they were 'bad guys' - but what good is your faith, if you can't make sacrifices?
What about when Yeshua' told us what to do when getting robbed. Did he say, punch the guy's lights out and rob him back?
""A woman who divorces her husband may never remarry. A man who divorces his wife may only remarry if she committed adultery. How one deals with situations where one of the spouses is an unbeliever is more complicated, as in Paul""
Finally something Scriptural. I believe Paul teaches that we are not to divorce in the case of an unbeliever, but if the unbeliever "leaves", the believer is free. To me that indicates they are free from the marriage, as in death, and can remarry. But besides adultery, death and "believer/unbeliever" it seems no divorce and remarriage allowed. What if a non-beleiver left a non-beleiver, and the "victim" non-believer became a Christian? Tricky. Man, it is easier to marry virgins! In the case of one leaving another for no proper reason, the "victim" cannot remarry can they? Because they are both still properly married? Or is in this case the vicitm free? Surely it seems reasonable that if a woman left you, you are free from the marriage right?
Also Akhi Craig, it would be good to hear Messianic Judaism's opinion on what constitutes marriage. For me, I do not see that government-given certificate as marriage. Is sex between a non-married male and a non-married female considered marriage? Where does the NT actually say how one is married?
For the second phrase, where in the Scriptures is that? Surely, I would do all I could to stop a murder, even at my own life, but if I have to kill the aggressor?
""And we ourselves become guilty of crimes if we let criminals run loose because we are afraid to kill them and send them to Gehenna. That is putting a higher value on the life of criminals than victims and society itself would break down.
""
Where does the NT say such things?
""Unless the Scriptures require it. Y'shu used violence to clear the Temple of the money lenders, etc. Several centurions (professional killers (not murders)) in the Breeta Khadta are spoken of quite highly by Y'shu, and Cornelius was selected by Elaha Himself to be brought into the faith and was not told to change his job because it was wrong to "kill."
""
Do no violence. I again like to see your verses Akhi. Look at what Jesus said when Peter struck the guard! And yes, there was an "angry Jesus", but did He ever hit someone?
""Yes. So you would let the Nazis, or the Japanese, or the Muslims conquer the world unopposed and enslave anyone who they didn't ethnically cleanse?""
It is not my job to kill others. Or even to worry about such wordly things. It is my job to follow Jesus.
Believe you me, for me this is one of the harder things of Christianity. I am a born fighter and found great pleasure in beating people up (in a good way... like a good old wholesome bar fight), especially when they were 'bad guys' - but what good is your faith, if you can't make sacrifices?
What about when Yeshua' told us what to do when getting robbed. Did he say, punch the guy's lights out and rob him back?
""A woman who divorces her husband may never remarry. A man who divorces his wife may only remarry if she committed adultery. How one deals with situations where one of the spouses is an unbeliever is more complicated, as in Paul""
Finally something Scriptural. I believe Paul teaches that we are not to divorce in the case of an unbeliever, but if the unbeliever "leaves", the believer is free. To me that indicates they are free from the marriage, as in death, and can remarry. But besides adultery, death and "believer/unbeliever" it seems no divorce and remarriage allowed. What if a non-beleiver left a non-beleiver, and the "victim" non-believer became a Christian? Tricky. Man, it is easier to marry virgins! In the case of one leaving another for no proper reason, the "victim" cannot remarry can they? Because they are both still properly married? Or is in this case the vicitm free? Surely it seems reasonable that if a woman left you, you are free from the marriage right?
Also Akhi Craig, it would be good to hear Messianic Judaism's opinion on what constitutes marriage. For me, I do not see that government-given certificate as marriage. Is sex between a non-married male and a non-married female considered marriage? Where does the NT actually say how one is married?