10-03-2003, 04:44 PM
Shlama Akhay,
Here's two in a row! I'll give akhay Paul and Andrew's explanations as well.
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Larry19 "2 goofs in a row in Luke 13"
Nov-25-2001 at 09:09 AM (GMT3)
Shlama to all,
Here's a couple of verses (consecutive, I might add) that could be translated better. Dr. George M. Lamsa has them in a chapter entitled "How to Ascertain an Original"
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]fmt4m[/font]-Meshtamlena,"will be through," in Luke 13:32, is rendered teleioumai-Teleioumai,"will be perfected."
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]rw9s0[/font]-Esaor,"to work" (spiritual work),in Luke 13:33 (the very next verse),is translated Poreuesqai-Poreuesthai,"to walk." The Eastern text reads "But, I must do my work today and tomorrow."
Paul Younan 7. "Answer #2"
Dec-03-2001 at 03:53 PM (GMT3)
Shlama Akhi Lawrence,
This one is a killer but try and follow my (hopefully not too) confusing explanation.
The Aramaic verbal root [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]r9s [/font]means many things, including, but not limited, to:
Visit, Travel
Do (work)
Effect
Here are some Nouns that are derived from this root (and the reason of derivation
Bishop ([font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rw9s[/font] from #1 above, because a Bishop travels and visits his parishes. Example: Keepa 2:25)
Matter, Affair, Business ([font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0nr9ws[/font] from #2 above, because a matter or affair or business is "done." Example: 1Thessalonians 4:11)
Action ([font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0nr9ws[/font] from #3 above, because a an "action" is "effected." Example: Luke 23:51)
So let's come back to the word in question, [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]rw9s0[/font] - our friend Zorba () ran across this word and correctly identified the root as [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]r9s[/font]
Realizing that he just translated that same root in Luke 1:68, correctly, as "visit" - he thought to himself, erroneously, "The Lord Jesus is talking about visiting and walking about, just like my Bishop does."
But Mshikha was talking about the need to do his work today and tomorrow, not about his walking schedule.
And so we have yet another distortion of Mshikha's words in the Greek translation - the 'Best Greek' of the New Testament, so we are told.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Fk^rwbw 0ml4[/font]
Andrew Gabriel Roth 2. "RE: 2 goofs in a row in Luke 13"
Nov-26-2001 at 06:17 PM (GMT3)
SHLAMA ALL--
I'LL TAKE THE FIRST ONE AND LEAVE THE OTHER TO SOMEONE ELSE. "MESHTAMELENA" (WILL BE THROUGH) IS MISTAKEN FOR "MESHEMALAYA" (#11858 MEM-SHIN-MEM-LAMED-YODH-ALAP), WHICH MEANS "PERFECTED", AND THIS IS WHAT IS TRANSLATED INTO GREEK. ANOTHER FORM OF THE WORD (#11864) IS THE SINGLE EMPHATIC FEMINIE FORM THAT APPEARS IN MARK 4:38 AND IS SPELLED:
MEM-SHIN-MEM-LAMED-YODH-TAW-ALAP (THE "TA" BEING THE FEMININE ENDING).
THE GREEK TRANSLATOR OBVIOUSLY JUMPED THE GUN HERE BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE WAS SEEING THE ROOT "SHLAMA" WHICH MEANS "PEACE" BUT ALSO "PERFECTION", SUCH AS "M'SHALAM" ("IT IS ACCOMPLISHED"). I SUSPECT THAT THE NUN WAS MISTAKEN FOR A YODH BECAUSE WHEN JOINED THEY CAN LOOK A LOT ALIKE, AND OUR FRIEND ZORBA WAS ALSO IN A HURRY BECAUSE IN HIS MIND HE TRANSPOSED THE POSITION OF THE TAW FROM AFTER THE SHIN TO AFTER THE YODH-AS-NUN. TSK TSK. BEWARE GREEKS BEARING BOOKS.
SHLAMA W'BURKATE
ANDREW GABRIEL ROTH
Here's two in a row! I'll give akhay Paul and Andrew's explanations as well.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forums/forumid6/757.html#">http://www.peshitta.org/forums/forumid6/757.html#</a><!-- m -->
Larry19 "2 goofs in a row in Luke 13"
Nov-25-2001 at 09:09 AM (GMT3)
Shlama to all,
Here's a couple of verses (consecutive, I might add) that could be translated better. Dr. George M. Lamsa has them in a chapter entitled "How to Ascertain an Original"
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]fmt4m[/font]-Meshtamlena,"will be through," in Luke 13:32, is rendered teleioumai-Teleioumai,"will be perfected."
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]rw9s0[/font]-Esaor,"to work" (spiritual work),in Luke 13:33 (the very next verse),is translated Poreuesqai-Poreuesthai,"to walk." The Eastern text reads "But, I must do my work today and tomorrow."
Paul Younan 7. "Answer #2"
Dec-03-2001 at 03:53 PM (GMT3)
Shlama Akhi Lawrence,
This one is a killer but try and follow my (hopefully not too) confusing explanation.
The Aramaic verbal root [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]r9s [/font]means many things, including, but not limited, to:
Visit, Travel
Do (work)
Effect
Here are some Nouns that are derived from this root (and the reason of derivation
Bishop ([font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rw9s[/font] from #1 above, because a Bishop travels and visits his parishes. Example: Keepa 2:25)
Matter, Affair, Business ([font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0nr9ws[/font] from #2 above, because a matter or affair or business is "done." Example: 1Thessalonians 4:11)
Action ([font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0nr9ws[/font] from #3 above, because a an "action" is "effected." Example: Luke 23:51)
So let's come back to the word in question, [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]rw9s0[/font] - our friend Zorba () ran across this word and correctly identified the root as [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]r9s[/font]
Realizing that he just translated that same root in Luke 1:68, correctly, as "visit" - he thought to himself, erroneously, "The Lord Jesus is talking about visiting and walking about, just like my Bishop does."
But Mshikha was talking about the need to do his work today and tomorrow, not about his walking schedule.
And so we have yet another distortion of Mshikha's words in the Greek translation - the 'Best Greek' of the New Testament, so we are told.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Fk^rwbw 0ml4[/font]
Andrew Gabriel Roth 2. "RE: 2 goofs in a row in Luke 13"
Nov-26-2001 at 06:17 PM (GMT3)
SHLAMA ALL--
I'LL TAKE THE FIRST ONE AND LEAVE THE OTHER TO SOMEONE ELSE. "MESHTAMELENA" (WILL BE THROUGH) IS MISTAKEN FOR "MESHEMALAYA" (#11858 MEM-SHIN-MEM-LAMED-YODH-ALAP), WHICH MEANS "PERFECTED", AND THIS IS WHAT IS TRANSLATED INTO GREEK. ANOTHER FORM OF THE WORD (#11864) IS THE SINGLE EMPHATIC FEMINIE FORM THAT APPEARS IN MARK 4:38 AND IS SPELLED:
MEM-SHIN-MEM-LAMED-YODH-TAW-ALAP (THE "TA" BEING THE FEMININE ENDING).
THE GREEK TRANSLATOR OBVIOUSLY JUMPED THE GUN HERE BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE WAS SEEING THE ROOT "SHLAMA" WHICH MEANS "PEACE" BUT ALSO "PERFECTION", SUCH AS "M'SHALAM" ("IT IS ACCOMPLISHED"). I SUSPECT THAT THE NUN WAS MISTAKEN FOR A YODH BECAUSE WHEN JOINED THEY CAN LOOK A LOT ALIKE, AND OUR FRIEND ZORBA WAS ALSO IN A HURRY BECAUSE IN HIS MIND HE TRANSPOSED THE POSITION OF THE TAW FROM AFTER THE SHIN TO AFTER THE YODH-AS-NUN. TSK TSK. BEWARE GREEKS BEARING BOOKS.
SHLAMA W'BURKATE
ANDREW GABRIEL ROTH