Philippians 2:12

[Keith]

I think this may be another issue of a potentially inapproprate translation from Aramaic to Greek. The English translation of the Greek says "... work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

The English translation of the Aramaic reads "... work the work of your life with fear and trembling." I'd like to ask one of you guys to give me your own translation of this verse and why you think Zorba blew this.

Thanks,
Keith

[Rob Vanhoff]

Shlama Akhi Keith,

Great question. The English you quoted is a good translation.

The word used here is 'life' - the construction is [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Nwkyyxd 0nxlwp[/font] poolkhana d'khayyakon, the work of your life.

Basically, there is no word in Aramaic for 'salvation' save the word 'life/live'. This has interesting ramifications for the interpretation of Paul's letters and has been a subject of my Peshitta study for quite some time now. I hope to do a write up on my findings in the future.

I hope this helps your research.

Shlama w'taybutha,
Rob

[Paul Younan]

Shlama Akhay,

Keith - Akhan Rob hit the nail right on the head. In Aramaic, "to save someone" literally is spoken "to give them life."

You can see lots of this type of phraseology in the Gospels and in Paul's epistles.

It would be interesting to know if there is any "split-word" potential here - perhaps Akhan Chris can do his wonderful investigative work and find out? <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s -->

[drmlanc]

The most obvious variant in the Greek mss in that verse is the omission of 'as'. I can't speak a drop of Aramaic and you want me to find a split word there? <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="" title="Huh" /><!-- s --> I'll try...

[drmlanc]

So far:

Aramaic- Salvation (actually for "life") - 0yxb, root - 0yx, found in ??? Romans ??? 5:17, 6:4
??? 2Corinthians ??? 5:4
??? Philippians ??? 1:20
??? Titus ??? 3:7


Aramaic - life Jwkyyxd, root - 0yx, same as for salvation, found in ??? Acts ??? 27:34
??? Ephesians ??? 1:13
??? Philippians ??? 2:12


CAL:

CAL Outline Lexicon: GENERAL xy)
xy) N > xyyn

xyyn N
1 passim life
2 Syr salvation
LS2 229
LS2 V: xay:e)

xy) a
1 JBA rapidly
form: hyy) !

---

Okay, I have not found a split word before, so you guys have to give me some advice. Do I just look at those verses where 0yxb appears and look in Greek if they have 2 words for it?

Shouldn't take to long, may the LORD help me!

[drmlanc]

Note for Eph 1:13 "gospel of your salvation" occurs a lot, but Wycliffe says gospel of your health.

[drmlanc]

Acts 16:17 (Wycliffe says "way of health) another example where health is there instead of salvation, but APPARENTLY (hint, hint Mr. Strong), salvation in Greek, swthriaV, can mean health also (but rarely...).

This is very much like the agapao/phileo issue. You would expect a lot of variants, but there are none or very few. Very frustrating <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> Below I have some concordances of these words to give an idea of how well Zorba covered his tracks. When I get some time, I want to search swthriaV (Greek for translation) in the various Greek texts and compare.

---

swthriaV in Greek of "salvation" in Eph1:13 also is in TR and WH

---

concordance of "salvation" - check all for variants!

from KJV

Luke 1:69, Luke 1:77, Luke 2:30, Luke 3:6, Luke 19:9, John 4:22,

Acts 4:12, Acts 13:26, Acts 13:47, Acts 16:17, Acts 28:28,

Romans 1:16, Romans 10:10, Romans 11:11, Romans 13:11, 2Co 1:6,

2Co 6:2, 2Co 7:10, Eph 1:13, Eph 6:17, Phil 1:19, Phil 1:28,

Phil 2:12, 1Thes 5:8, 1Thes 5:9, 2Thes 2:13, 2Tim 2:10, 2Tim

3:15, Titus 2:11, Hebrews 1:14, Hebrews 2:3, Hebrews 2:10,

Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:9, Hebrews 9:28, 1Pe 1:5, 1Pe 1:9, 1Pe

1:10, 2Pe 3:15, Jude 1:3, Rev 7:10, Rev 12:10, Rev 19:1.


Compare to concordance "salvation" for NIV, check:
Omitted in Acts 16:17 (Wycliffe says "way of health!), Romans

10:10, Phil 1:28, 2Thes 2:13,
Added in 1Pe2:2,

Look for "eternal salvation"/eternal life

"eternal life" KJV:
Mt 19:16, Mt 25:46, Mark 10:17, Mark 10:30, Luke 10:25, Luke

18:18, John 3:15, John 4:36, John 5:39, John 6:54, John 6:68,

John 10:28, John 12:25, John 17:2, John 17:3, Acts 13:48, Romans

2:7, Romans 5:21, Romans 6:23, 1Ti 6:12, 1Ti 6:19, Titus 1:2,

Titus 3:7, 1Jo 1:2, 1Jo 2:25.



cf in NIV for "eternal life"
added: Mt 18:18, Mt 19:29, Luke 18:30, **John 3:16**, John 3:36,

John 4:14, John 5:24, John 6:27, John 6:40, Acts 13:46, Romans

6:22, Gal 6:8, 1Ti 1:16, 1Jhn 3:15, 1John 5:11, 1John 5:13,

1John 5:20, Jude 1:21, done

omitted: 1Ti 6:19, done

[drmlanc]

Matthew 16:16

Alex and Byzo say God of Life, just as Peshitta. But our old friend manuscript D, says God of Salvation <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

The two Greek words are a bit similar, but they most definitely should not be confused while copying from one mss to the other. I think this is a genuine split word Akhi <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s -->

[Larry Kelsey]

Matthew 16:16

Alex and Byzo say God of Life, just as Peshitta. But our old friend manuscript D, says God of Salvation <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

The two Greek words are a bit similar, but they most definitely should not be confused while copying from one mss to the other. I think this is a genuine split word Akhi <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s -->

Hey! Nice job akhi Chris! Don't ya just love the REAL original?
I can't wait for these guys that have been Greek professors for 30 years to enjoy even one percent of the pleasures we've known here at peshitta.org!!! <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->

Shlama w'Burkate, Larry Kelsey

[drmlanc]

"I can't wait for these guys that have been Greek professors for 30 years to enjoy even one percent of the pleasures we've known here at peshitta.org!!! "

Yeah, I feel sorry for the poor schmoes. Talented men dedicating their whole life to sudying translations, while bums like me who are not an expert, get to enjoy the fruits of the original <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s -->

[drmlanc]

New split word ready in BSWA2 form:

21. Of salvation or of life? ??? Matthew 16:16

The KJV says: ???And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.???

Note: Once again, the English versions demonstrating the variant are not shown, as the variant lies in the Greek texts, and most English versions read very similarly.

The Alexandrian and Byzantine texts usually have zwntov in the verse, signifying ???God of life??? or ???God the living One???, while the Codex Bezae (D) has swzontov in Matthew 16:16, signifying ???God of salvation??? or ???God the Saviour???. The Peshitta has [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yx[/font] which literally means ???life???. When comparing the two words, it doesn???t seem probable that a Greek copyist just copied the word wrongly from one Greek text to another. It is more likely that the Zorbans translating the Codex Bezae from the Aramaic original had meant to say ???salvation??? instead of ???life???. In Aramaic, there really is no word for ???salvation???. They just use the word for ???life???! This Greek variant clearly points to an Aramaic original.

Acknowledgements: Thanks to the LORD for handing this split word to me, on a golden platter.


---

Anyone who wants your name in Acknowledgements (nearly all of us played a part hey <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s --> post your full name.