How should Jn 8:25 be rendered?
Does 'Yehudians' belong there?
James A. Montgomery, _The Origin of the Gospel According to St. John_ (1923), 21
https://archive.org/details/originofgosp...1/mode/2up
The obviously most difficult passage in the Gospel is found
in 8, 25. The Jews said to Jesus, “Who art thou?” Jesus said
to them "τὴν ἀρχὴν ὅτι καὶ λαλῶ ὑμῖν." RV translates this
Greek: “Even that which I also spoke to you at the beginning”,
with the variant: “How is it (in italics) that I even speak to you
at all?” Similarly WH by its varieties of punctuation allows two
interpretations, the affirmation and the question. How uncertain
and absurd is the Greek! An intelligible Aramaic might be
worked out thus: “What was at first (_di bereshith_), what (_di_ =
represented by ὅτι) also I am saying to you,” i. e., I am saying
the same thing as from the first. Again the trouble would have
arisen over the ambiguousness of the relative particle _di_.
John 8:25 (NABRE)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...sion=NABRE
[a]So they said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them,
“What I told you from the beginning.
a: What I told you from the beginning: this verse seems textually corrupt, with several other possible translations: “(I am) what I say to you”; “Why do I speak to you at all?” The earliest attested reading (Bodmer Papyrus P66) has (in a second hand), “I told you at the beginning what I am also telling you (now).” The answer here (cf. Prv 8:22) seems to hinge on a misunderstanding of Jn 8:24 “that I AM” as “what I am.”
John 8:25
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) The Jihudoyee say, Who art thou ? Jeshu saith to them,
The same that I began to tell you. [Or, to speak with you.]
(Murdock) The Jews said to him: Who art thou ? Jesus said to them:
Although I have begun to converse with you,
(Lamsa) The Jews said, Who are you? Jesus said to them,
Even though I should begin to speak to you,
(KJV) Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them,
Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
John 8:26
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) Much have I against you to say and to judge:
but he who hath sent me is true;
and those (things) which I have heard from him
these speak I in the world.
(Murdock) I have yet many things to say and to Judge concerning you.
But he that sent me is true:
and the things which I have heard from him,
them I speak in the world.
(Lamsa) I have many things to say and to judge concerning you;
but he who sent me is true;
and I speak in the world
only those things which I have heard from him.
(KJV) I have many things to say and to judge of you:
but he that sent me is true;
and I speak to the world
those things which I have heard of him.
http://www.willker.de/wie/TCG/
has extensive comments about the Jn 8:25 variants in the Greek mss.
by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron, Section XXXV
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...saron.html
[~36] The Jews said, And thou, who art thou? Jesus said unto them,
If I should begin to speak unto you,
I have concerning you many words and judgement:
but he that sent me is true;
and I, what I heard from him
is what I say in the world.
Dutch translations at http://dukhrana.com/
John 8:25 - De Joden zeiden: "Wie bent u?" Yešúʿ zei tegen hen: "Als ik toch met u begin te spreken,
John 8:25 - De Joden zeiden tegen Hem: “Wie bent U?” Jezus zei tegen hen: “Wat ik al begonnen ben tegen jullie te zeggen.
De Joden - dit is de lezing van de Aramese Peshitta. De lezing van de Griekse NA28, MHT en TR luidt: ‘Zij’.
google translate:
John 8:25 - The Jews said, "Who are you?" Yešúʿ said to them:
"If I begin to talk to you,
John 8:25 - The Jews said to him, "Who are you?" Jesus said to them:
“What I have already begun to say to you.
The Jews - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "They."
Does 'Yehudians' belong there?
James A. Montgomery, _The Origin of the Gospel According to St. John_ (1923), 21
https://archive.org/details/originofgosp...1/mode/2up
The obviously most difficult passage in the Gospel is found
in 8, 25. The Jews said to Jesus, “Who art thou?” Jesus said
to them "τὴν ἀρχὴν ὅτι καὶ λαλῶ ὑμῖν." RV translates this
Greek: “Even that which I also spoke to you at the beginning”,
with the variant: “How is it (in italics) that I even speak to you
at all?” Similarly WH by its varieties of punctuation allows two
interpretations, the affirmation and the question. How uncertain
and absurd is the Greek! An intelligible Aramaic might be
worked out thus: “What was at first (_di bereshith_), what (_di_ =
represented by ὅτι) also I am saying to you,” i. e., I am saying
the same thing as from the first. Again the trouble would have
arisen over the ambiguousness of the relative particle _di_.
John 8:25 (NABRE)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...sion=NABRE
[a]So they said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them,
“What I told you from the beginning.
a: What I told you from the beginning: this verse seems textually corrupt, with several other possible translations: “(I am) what I say to you”; “Why do I speak to you at all?” The earliest attested reading (Bodmer Papyrus P66) has (in a second hand), “I told you at the beginning what I am also telling you (now).” The answer here (cf. Prv 8:22) seems to hinge on a misunderstanding of Jn 8:24 “that I AM” as “what I am.”
John 8:25
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) The Jihudoyee say, Who art thou ? Jeshu saith to them,
The same that I began to tell you. [Or, to speak with you.]
(Murdock) The Jews said to him: Who art thou ? Jesus said to them:
Although I have begun to converse with you,
(Lamsa) The Jews said, Who are you? Jesus said to them,
Even though I should begin to speak to you,
(KJV) Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them,
Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
John 8:26
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) Much have I against you to say and to judge:
but he who hath sent me is true;
and those (things) which I have heard from him
these speak I in the world.
(Murdock) I have yet many things to say and to Judge concerning you.
But he that sent me is true:
and the things which I have heard from him,
them I speak in the world.
(Lamsa) I have many things to say and to judge concerning you;
but he who sent me is true;
and I speak in the world
only those things which I have heard from him.
(KJV) I have many things to say and to judge of you:
but he that sent me is true;
and I speak to the world
those things which I have heard of him.
http://www.willker.de/wie/TCG/
has extensive comments about the Jn 8:25 variants in the Greek mss.
by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron, Section XXXV
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...saron.html
[~36] The Jews said, And thou, who art thou? Jesus said unto them,
If I should begin to speak unto you,
I have concerning you many words and judgement:
but he that sent me is true;
and I, what I heard from him
is what I say in the world.
Dutch translations at http://dukhrana.com/
John 8:25 - De Joden zeiden: "Wie bent u?" Yešúʿ zei tegen hen: "Als ik toch met u begin te spreken,
John 8:25 - De Joden zeiden tegen Hem: “Wie bent U?” Jezus zei tegen hen: “Wat ik al begonnen ben tegen jullie te zeggen.
De Joden - dit is de lezing van de Aramese Peshitta. De lezing van de Griekse NA28, MHT en TR luidt: ‘Zij’.
google translate:
John 8:25 - The Jews said, "Who are you?" Yešúʿ said to them:
"If I begin to talk to you,
John 8:25 - The Jews said to him, "Who are you?" Jesus said to them:
“What I have already begun to say to you.
The Jews - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "They."