06-22-2019, 07:18 PM
Do you agree with me that: Jesus died? Jesus was crucified?
Jesus died from crucifixion? Jesus was raised up alive?
Quran, Arberry translation
https://archive.org/stream/QuranAJArberr...y_djvu.txt
3:135 .... Muhammad is naught but a Messenger; *Messengers have passed away before him.*
*Why, if he should die or is slain, will you turn about on your heels?* .... 3:140 ....
19:30 Mary pointed to the child then; but they said, 'How shall we speak to one who is still in
the cradle, a little child?' He said, 'Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and
made me a Prophet. Blessed He has made me, wherever I may be; and He has enjoined me to
pray, and to give the alms, so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not
made me arrogant, unprosperous. Peace be upon me, the day I was born,
*and the day I die, and the day I am raised up alive!'* 19:35 That is Jesus, son of Mary,
in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. ....
Sura 4, Quran, Arberry translation
https://archive.org/stream/QuranAJArberr...y_djvu.txt 150 .... So, for their breaking the compact, and disbelieving in the signs of God, and
*slaying the Prophets without right,* and for their saying, 'Our hearts are uncircumcised'
- nay, but God sealed them for their unbelief, so they believe not, except a few -
155 and for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty calumny, and for their
saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God' - yet they did not
slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at
variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him; they have no knowledge of him,
except the following of surmise; and they slew him not of a certainty - no indeed;
*God raised him up to Him;* God is All-mighty, All-wise.
There is not one of the People of the Book but will assuredly *believe in him before his death,*
and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them.
By the way, that rendering of 4:158 is a mistranslation:
_The Qur'an: Misinterpreted, Mistranslated, and Misread. The Aramaic Language of the Qur'an_ (2006) by Gabriel Sawma
https://www.amazon.com/Quran-Misinterpre...977860698/ On 221-226:
*Waqawlihim inna qatalna al Massih 'Issa ibn Maryam rasul Allah, wama qataluhu wama salabuhu walaken shubbiha lahum,* Q. 4:158....
Contrary to the Hadith interpretation of the Qur'anic verse, and contrary to the translation mentioned above, and to the erroneous interpretation rendered by Abdullah Yussuf Ali, the Qur'an does not deny the death and Crucifixion of Jesus, the Messiah. In fact the Aramaic language of the Qur'an is identical to the story of Crucifixion mentioned in the New Testament.
The Qur'anic conjugation "w" in the word "[w]ama" is similar to Aramaic "w" meaning 'so, then, and'; Akkadian "u". The Qur'anic word "wama" has been interpreted erroneously as 'did not'. Syriac "wmo, or wma" is an interrogative pronoun [that] means 'what'. For example: Syriac "wmo li wlokh" or "wma li wlokh" means 'and what have I to do with you'. The Qur'anic verse, "wama qataluhu" is identical to Aramaic "wm qtlhu", Syriac "wmo qatluuy, or wma qatluuy" means 'what they slew'. The Qur'anic verse "wama salabuuhu" is identical to Syriac "wmo salbuuy or wma salbuuy" meaning 'what they crucified'. In other words, the Qur'an is saying: 'what they slew and what they crucified', a confirmation of the death and crucifixion of Jesus, the Messiah.
The Qur'anic word "walaaken" has been interpreted erroneously as 'but'. Aramaic "lkn". The initial "l" is a preposition, it means 'to, for, in regard to'. When the suffixes are added, it is pronounced 'li (mine), lokh, or lakh (yours, sing.), leh (his), loh (hers), lan (ours), lkhuun (yours, plural), lkhen (yours, fem. Plu.). When the vowel sign /a/ is added to the Syriac "lkhen", it turns into "lakhen", Arabic "laken" means 'to you' (fem. Plural). It is important to keep in mind that the early Qur'anic manuscripts did not use the vowel signs. Thus the original word used in the Qur'an was "lkn" as in Syriac "Iken, or lkhen" meaning (yours, fem. Plu.), which is found in Syriac Peshito (Ezekiel 13:18) and Biblia Hebraica "lknh" (Eze. 13:18). The reference to feminine plural in the Qur'anic verse is compatible with the Biblical event, which is mentioned in Matthew 27:55. It reads the following: *"There were many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee and helped him. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the wife of Zebede".* The the [sic] Qur'anic verse addresses those women, who were present at the Crucifixion, by saying 'to you'.
The Qur'anic word "shubbiha" has been interpreted erroneously as 'he was made to appear to them like the one crucified'. Syriac "shabah" means 'glory'. The Qur'anic preposition "lahum" is equivalent to Aramaic "lhmh" meaning 'in regard to them, in reference to them' (Jer. 14:16).
The correct interpretation is: 'and they say, we did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah, what they slew, and what they crucified, and to you (the women who followed Jesus at the Crucifixion) he is glorified and to them (his followers) as well'. In other words, the Qur'an confirms the death and crucifixion of Jesus, but the Aramaic language of the verse was misinterpreted by Muslim commentators. The following verse confirms the killing of Jesus Christ. See below.
*Inna qatalna almaseeh 'eesa ibn maryam,* Q. 4:158, trans. 'we killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary'. Syr. *"hnan qtalnan yeshou'msheeho bar Maryam".*
Bal Rafa'ahu allahu ilayhi, Q. 4:159. Muslim commentators render the following interpretations:
1- 'On the contrary, Allah *exalted* him to Himself (M. Sher Ali);
2- 'Nay, God *raised him up* unto Himself' (A. Yusuf Ali);
3- 'But Allah *took him up* unto Himself (M. M. Pickthall).
Abdullah Yusuf Ali offers the following explanation:
/////////////////////
Cited in
https://goharmukhtar.wordpress.com/2009/...positions/ "There is difference of opinion as to the exact interpretation of this verse. The words are:
The Jews did not kill Jesus, but Allah raised him up (_rafa'ahu_) to Himself.
One school holds that Jesus did not die the usual human death but still lives in the body in heaven, which is generally accepted Muslim view. Another holds that he did die (5:117) but not when he was supposed to be crucified, and that his being "raised up" unto Allah means that instead of being disgraced as a malefactor, as the Jews intended, he was on the contrary honored by Allah as His messenger; (see 4:159). The same word _rafa'a_ is used in association with honor in connection with _al-Mustafa_ in 94:4." [1]
/////////////////////
In his effort to deny what the Qur'an confirms, the first translator intentionally interpreted the Arabic word "rafa'a" which means 'raise him up' and replaced it with the word 'Allah exalted him'. As any Arabic speaking [person] knows, the word 'exalted' is not a synonym to "rafa'a". The Qur'an is saying that: 'Allah raised him (i.e. Jesus) up.' The other two translators confirm this.
....
*Wa inna min ahli alkitabi ilia layu'min bihi qabla mawtihi,* Q. 4:160. Muslim commentators render the following interpretations:
1- 'and there is none among the People of the Book but will believe in it before his death' (M. Sher Ali);
2- 'There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death' (M. M. Pickthall);
3- 'and there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death' (A. Yusuf Ali). The commentator writes the following explanation:
/////////////////////
_Commentary on Yusuf Ali's Translation_, Version 1.08, by Yusuf Ali
https://www.nku.edu/~kenneyr/Islam/Commentary.html @665. Before his death: Interpreters are not agreed as to the exact meaning. Those who hold that Jesus did not die refer the pronoun "his" to Jesus. They say that Jesus is still living in the body and that he will appear just before the Final Day, after the coming of the Mahdi, when the world will be purified of sin and unbelief. There will be a final death before the final Resurrection, but all will have believed before that final death. Others think that "his" is better referred, to "none of the People of the Book", and that the emphatic form "must believe" (la-yu' minanna) denotes more a question of duty than of fact.
/////////////////////
There is no question that this part of verse 4:160, could not be interpreted within the context of the Arabic language. The disagreement among Muslim commentators 'about the exact meaning' is a perfect example of the interpreter's inability to understand the Syriac language of the text. The Qur'anic term "illa la yu'min" is equivalent to Syriac "elo (ela) lo (la) mhaymen" meaning 'but they do not believe'.
The Qur'an is saying: 'but among the people of the book there are those who did not believe in Jesus before he died'; in other words, Jesus' death was a sign for some people of the book, to believe in him.
///////////////////////////////////////////
'Wama' might be 'and not,' and might instead be 'and/but what.' When you see in your Quran translation a 'not,' as an idea, try replacing the 'not' with 'what.' I did Google translate on:
http://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=lem...+pos%3Aneg
interlinear for 4:157
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?c...&verse=157
http://www.answering-islam.org/PQ/Summary.htm
We note admissions that the scholars differ as the whether the Qur'anic texts say 'NO' when they should say 'YES' - and that this varies from text to text.
Jesus died from crucifixion? Jesus was raised up alive?
Quran, Arberry translation
https://archive.org/stream/QuranAJArberr...y_djvu.txt
3:135 .... Muhammad is naught but a Messenger; *Messengers have passed away before him.*
*Why, if he should die or is slain, will you turn about on your heels?* .... 3:140 ....
19:30 Mary pointed to the child then; but they said, 'How shall we speak to one who is still in
the cradle, a little child?' He said, 'Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and
made me a Prophet. Blessed He has made me, wherever I may be; and He has enjoined me to
pray, and to give the alms, so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not
made me arrogant, unprosperous. Peace be upon me, the day I was born,
*and the day I die, and the day I am raised up alive!'* 19:35 That is Jesus, son of Mary,
in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. ....
Sura 4, Quran, Arberry translation
https://archive.org/stream/QuranAJArberr...y_djvu.txt 150 .... So, for their breaking the compact, and disbelieving in the signs of God, and
*slaying the Prophets without right,* and for their saying, 'Our hearts are uncircumcised'
- nay, but God sealed them for their unbelief, so they believe not, except a few -
155 and for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty calumny, and for their
saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God' - yet they did not
slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at
variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him; they have no knowledge of him,
except the following of surmise; and they slew him not of a certainty - no indeed;
*God raised him up to Him;* God is All-mighty, All-wise.
There is not one of the People of the Book but will assuredly *believe in him before his death,*
and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them.
By the way, that rendering of 4:158 is a mistranslation:
_The Qur'an: Misinterpreted, Mistranslated, and Misread. The Aramaic Language of the Qur'an_ (2006) by Gabriel Sawma
https://www.amazon.com/Quran-Misinterpre...977860698/ On 221-226:
*Waqawlihim inna qatalna al Massih 'Issa ibn Maryam rasul Allah, wama qataluhu wama salabuhu walaken shubbiha lahum,* Q. 4:158....
Contrary to the Hadith interpretation of the Qur'anic verse, and contrary to the translation mentioned above, and to the erroneous interpretation rendered by Abdullah Yussuf Ali, the Qur'an does not deny the death and Crucifixion of Jesus, the Messiah. In fact the Aramaic language of the Qur'an is identical to the story of Crucifixion mentioned in the New Testament.
The Qur'anic conjugation "w" in the word "[w]ama" is similar to Aramaic "w" meaning 'so, then, and'; Akkadian "u". The Qur'anic word "wama" has been interpreted erroneously as 'did not'. Syriac "wmo, or wma" is an interrogative pronoun [that] means 'what'. For example: Syriac "wmo li wlokh" or "wma li wlokh" means 'and what have I to do with you'. The Qur'anic verse, "wama qataluhu" is identical to Aramaic "wm qtlhu", Syriac "wmo qatluuy, or wma qatluuy" means 'what they slew'. The Qur'anic verse "wama salabuuhu" is identical to Syriac "wmo salbuuy or wma salbuuy" meaning 'what they crucified'. In other words, the Qur'an is saying: 'what they slew and what they crucified', a confirmation of the death and crucifixion of Jesus, the Messiah.
The Qur'anic word "walaaken" has been interpreted erroneously as 'but'. Aramaic "lkn". The initial "l" is a preposition, it means 'to, for, in regard to'. When the suffixes are added, it is pronounced 'li (mine), lokh, or lakh (yours, sing.), leh (his), loh (hers), lan (ours), lkhuun (yours, plural), lkhen (yours, fem. Plu.). When the vowel sign /a/ is added to the Syriac "lkhen", it turns into "lakhen", Arabic "laken" means 'to you' (fem. Plural). It is important to keep in mind that the early Qur'anic manuscripts did not use the vowel signs. Thus the original word used in the Qur'an was "lkn" as in Syriac "Iken, or lkhen" meaning (yours, fem. Plu.), which is found in Syriac Peshito (Ezekiel 13:18) and Biblia Hebraica "lknh" (Eze. 13:18). The reference to feminine plural in the Qur'anic verse is compatible with the Biblical event, which is mentioned in Matthew 27:55. It reads the following: *"There were many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee and helped him. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the wife of Zebede".* The the [sic] Qur'anic verse addresses those women, who were present at the Crucifixion, by saying 'to you'.
The Qur'anic word "shubbiha" has been interpreted erroneously as 'he was made to appear to them like the one crucified'. Syriac "shabah" means 'glory'. The Qur'anic preposition "lahum" is equivalent to Aramaic "lhmh" meaning 'in regard to them, in reference to them' (Jer. 14:16).
The correct interpretation is: 'and they say, we did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah, what they slew, and what they crucified, and to you (the women who followed Jesus at the Crucifixion) he is glorified and to them (his followers) as well'. In other words, the Qur'an confirms the death and crucifixion of Jesus, but the Aramaic language of the verse was misinterpreted by Muslim commentators. The following verse confirms the killing of Jesus Christ. See below.
*Inna qatalna almaseeh 'eesa ibn maryam,* Q. 4:158, trans. 'we killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary'. Syr. *"hnan qtalnan yeshou'msheeho bar Maryam".*
Bal Rafa'ahu allahu ilayhi, Q. 4:159. Muslim commentators render the following interpretations:
1- 'On the contrary, Allah *exalted* him to Himself (M. Sher Ali);
2- 'Nay, God *raised him up* unto Himself' (A. Yusuf Ali);
3- 'But Allah *took him up* unto Himself (M. M. Pickthall).
Abdullah Yusuf Ali offers the following explanation:
/////////////////////
Cited in
https://goharmukhtar.wordpress.com/2009/...positions/ "There is difference of opinion as to the exact interpretation of this verse. The words are:
The Jews did not kill Jesus, but Allah raised him up (_rafa'ahu_) to Himself.
One school holds that Jesus did not die the usual human death but still lives in the body in heaven, which is generally accepted Muslim view. Another holds that he did die (5:117) but not when he was supposed to be crucified, and that his being "raised up" unto Allah means that instead of being disgraced as a malefactor, as the Jews intended, he was on the contrary honored by Allah as His messenger; (see 4:159). The same word _rafa'a_ is used in association with honor in connection with _al-Mustafa_ in 94:4." [1]
/////////////////////
In his effort to deny what the Qur'an confirms, the first translator intentionally interpreted the Arabic word "rafa'a" which means 'raise him up' and replaced it with the word 'Allah exalted him'. As any Arabic speaking [person] knows, the word 'exalted' is not a synonym to "rafa'a". The Qur'an is saying that: 'Allah raised him (i.e. Jesus) up.' The other two translators confirm this.
....
*Wa inna min ahli alkitabi ilia layu'min bihi qabla mawtihi,* Q. 4:160. Muslim commentators render the following interpretations:
1- 'and there is none among the People of the Book but will believe in it before his death' (M. Sher Ali);
2- 'There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death' (M. M. Pickthall);
3- 'and there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death' (A. Yusuf Ali). The commentator writes the following explanation:
/////////////////////
_Commentary on Yusuf Ali's Translation_, Version 1.08, by Yusuf Ali
https://www.nku.edu/~kenneyr/Islam/Commentary.html @665. Before his death: Interpreters are not agreed as to the exact meaning. Those who hold that Jesus did not die refer the pronoun "his" to Jesus. They say that Jesus is still living in the body and that he will appear just before the Final Day, after the coming of the Mahdi, when the world will be purified of sin and unbelief. There will be a final death before the final Resurrection, but all will have believed before that final death. Others think that "his" is better referred, to "none of the People of the Book", and that the emphatic form "must believe" (la-yu' minanna) denotes more a question of duty than of fact.
/////////////////////
There is no question that this part of verse 4:160, could not be interpreted within the context of the Arabic language. The disagreement among Muslim commentators 'about the exact meaning' is a perfect example of the interpreter's inability to understand the Syriac language of the text. The Qur'anic term "illa la yu'min" is equivalent to Syriac "elo (ela) lo (la) mhaymen" meaning 'but they do not believe'.
The Qur'an is saying: 'but among the people of the book there are those who did not believe in Jesus before he died'; in other words, Jesus' death was a sign for some people of the book, to believe in him.
///////////////////////////////////////////
'Wama' might be 'and not,' and might instead be 'and/but what.' When you see in your Quran translation a 'not,' as an idea, try replacing the 'not' with 'what.' I did Google translate on:
http://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=lem...+pos%3Aneg
interlinear for 4:157
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?c...&verse=157
http://www.answering-islam.org/PQ/Summary.htm
We note admissions that the scholars differ as the whether the Qur'anic texts say 'NO' when they should say 'YES' - and that this varies from text to text.