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The Messiah's Name
#31
This is the point I am making - why were different transliterations adopted in the first place? The only reason I can think of is because the names were actually different. Maybe one of them was called 'Yeshua' and the other 'Yahu-shua' which don't quite mean the same due to the addition of the prefix 'Yah'.
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#32
drmlanc Wrote:Smile

In any case, it is still strange that Jesus isn't called Joshua or that Joshua isn't called Jesus...

Actually, check out the KJV of Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8!

It says "Jesus" and it is speaking about "Joshua". Peshitta has Yeshua here, too.

Guys, the names Yehoshua and Yeshua are equivalent. The first is Hebrew, the second Aramaic.

Shlama,
Rob
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#33
Cool... but in Heb4:8, is that really referring to Joshua? Should we be in his rest or in the Messiah's rest?
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#34
If you read the whole context, you'll see that Hebrews 4:8 is talking about Yehoshua ben Nun (Joshua).

Shlama,
Rob
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#35
Yah. This 'context' has often been taken by people to speak of Jesus, and used unjustly as 'evidence' against the Sabbath... Good work!
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#36
Quote:Guys, the names Yehoshua and Yeshua are equivalent. The first is Hebrew, the second Aramaic.

I have to disagree here. 'Yahu-shua' is 'Yah saves' and 'Yeshua' is the third person of 'safety' or 'to be safe'. Yah is not included here. I don't think the differing dialect of the proto-language matters in this respect.

However I am curious as to why Nestorians to this day do not even pronounce the 'Y' at all, and instead refer to 'ee'. Marcionites called him 'eeso'. According to Mingana, south Syrians called him 'eesa'. Hence many 'Semites' didn't pronounce the 'Y' at all.
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#37
I think I'm posting on an old post here; but this discussion is of interest to me; I found it to be helpful.
I am not a Hebrew or Aramaic Scholar. However I have studied some linguistics and have done some research on the name of our Savior that might be of interest here.
The last post said that "Yah" is not included in Yeshua, but it is just "salvation." However,
If I am not mistaken, The Hebrew word for "save, salvation/deliver" and its various forms and tenses, is Yeshua; innate in the word itself is the sense that rescue comes from YHWH. It has been said that "shua" is "to call out" or "cry out" Thus the word for salvation and its various tenses and forms would be "to cry out/call out, 'YHWH!'" This is in keeping with the passage that says, "There is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved." and, "Whoever calls upon the name YHWH shall be saved." This is quoted in the NT, though we only see that "the name" is "YHWH" through the Aramaic and or knowing its source in the OT. So, which is it? Do we call upon YHWH or upon Yeshua! Here is the beauty of it! When we call Yeshua, we are actually calling out to YHWH. So we are calling upon the name YHWH to save us! That is who He is, It's what HE does, It is His very character, and he never changes; he is the same yesterday, today and throughout generations YHWH who saves!

Please if you can verify or refute anything I've said here, do.
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#38
:

Hi Sarah,

Did you know that in The Aramaic NT, The Messiah is called YHWH, directly, numerous times? MarYa, means Master-YAH. Our Savoir is Master YHWH!

Shlama,
Chuck
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#39
"Yahshua" and "Yahushua" are inventions from the Sacred Name movement and their belief that Jesus coming in the name of the Father means that He must have had "Yah" in His real name. What Jesus was talking about was having the authority of the Father vested in Him and coming in His place. The "Ye" in Yeshua is though, an abbreviated form of Yahweh (I'm assuming it is just the "Y" in the first syllable and the "e" in the second syllable).

The Jews have traditionally called the Messiah "Yeshu", which is actually an acronym in Hebrew that when translated means "May His name be blotted out forever". I believe "Yeshua" is the more correct pronunciation if you're looking for the name of the Lord Jesus in His own language.I believe Yeshu could have been how you pronounce His name, but the Jews were well known for slurring the names of false gods (I think I read somewhere that "Baalzebub" was a mock name for a Philistine deity, but I could be wrong).
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#40
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:"Yahshua" and "Yahushua" are inventions from the Sacred Name movement and their belief that Jesus coming in the name of the Father means that He must have had "Yah" in His real name. What Jesus was talking about was having the authority of the Father vested in Him and coming in His place. The "Ye" in Yeshua is though, an abbreviated form of Yahweh (I'm assuming it is just the "Y" in the first syllable and the "e" in the second syllable).
Actually the Name of The Anointed One not only is the same as Yehoshua son of Nun as prophesied in ZekharYahu [Zechariah] 6:9-13, as all scholars worth there degree will readily admit that "The Branch" is a prophetic reference to the coming Anointed One Who would be our Eternal Priest and King. See: YeshaYahu [Isaiah] 11:1-7, YirmeeYahu [Jeremiah] 23:5 and 33:15-16. And they will also just as readily admit that it was derived from the name Hoshayah [Hosea] by simply adding a lone yohd unto the front of it.

Hoshayah is the root yasha inflected with the Heh added to the front to denote a past tense of "he saved". This is the meaning in which Hoshayah's parents meant to convey when they named their son. The second letter waw [i.e.-o] in the name Hoshayah is not the waw in the tetragrammaton (i.e. -YHWH), nor even that which follows the Short Form of The Divine Name (i.e. -Yahu), as it is merely the yohd in yasha modified due to the inflection of the past tense. Common sense dictates that there is no possible presence of The Divine Name here (i.e. - the Trigrammaton), as there is no yohd present at the beginning of this name.

Then Moshay [Moses] came along and added (only) a yohd to the front of the name Hoshayah to switch the inflection from past tense into a future tense [i.e. - "he will save"](see: Numbers 13:16. If your translation has Oshea in this verse know that it is simply a result of different English transliterations and is the same in the Hebrew Texts as all the other instances of Hoshayah [Hosea]).

Now just because there is a yohd, heh, and a waw in the beginning of this name now does not mean these letters are rooted in The Divine Name or the Trigrammaton Form thereof. And all the speculations as to such can not by any stretch of the imagination change this FACT!

The FACTS are that the yohd was added by Moshay to the front of the name Hoshayah to change the inflection not to add any sense of the Divine Name unto it, and the heh was already due to Hoshayah's parents adding it to the root yasha so as to convey the past tense of "he saved" (long before Moshay ever thought to add the yohd). And again the waw is the yohd of yasha morphed as mentioned already to create the inflection of past tense (and yes this waw was in the name Hoshayah long before the yohd was added to it as well). So you see neither the yohd, heh, nor waw in the name Yehoshuah has anything to do with the presence of the Trigrammaton (which by the way is the Sort form of the Divine Name with the suffix waw added to it to simply denote "Yah our" or "our Yah", as it has nothing to do with the waw in the long form of the Divine Name (i.e.- YHWH).

Yes looks can be deceiving, and this is especially the case with this name, at least to people that are just learning that our Creator has a Name, and that it is YHWH, but are not yet familiar with the Hebrew language and its rules of grammar and usages.

First off if one is to assume that the waw is part of the Trigrammaton they then must also believe that the root following is not that of yasha (i.e. - salvation) as any chance of the root being that of yasha was destroyed when they removed the yohd from the second root of this name unto a supposed Trigrammaton, because the Hebrew rules of grammar do not allow for part of one root to be confiscated to produce something else. So if the waw was actually part of the Trigrammaton the left over letters could not convey salvation of any sense, or reflection thereof. Once one removes the waw from the root of yasha to support the Divine Name THEORY they have effectively destroyed any hope of salvation within this name, leaving shuah as the root which carries the meaning of "has riches" or "cries for help". And while YHWH does indeed have riches that is not what this name is defining. In order to retain the idea of salvation in verb tense (i.e. - save) the waw must remain with the root in which it was originated from, and that being the morphed yohd of yasha to create Hoshayah (i.e. -"he saved). As also in the name Yehoshuah as "he will save".

And Jesus is an English transliteration of The Greek transliteration of the Aramaic transliteration of the Hebrew name Yehoshua. Joshua is an English transliteration of the Hebrew Name Yehoshua. Iesous is the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic form of the Hebrew name Yehoshua. And Yehoshua is the correct English transliteration of the original prophesied Hebrew Name of The Anointed One. Some will say that Yeshua is actually the name of The Anointed One but the problem with that is that it is missing the heh for he and the waw which is apart of the root yasha whereby to the trained ear in the Hebrew language the so-called name Yeshua is missing key sounds to denote "HE will SAVE", leaving just a "future" tense of either "has riches" or "cries for help". No three ways about it! Simply by linguistics along only the full form of the Hebrew name denotes "HE WILL SAVE" (see: {Mat_1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His Name : Yehoshua , for HE SHALL SAVE His people from their sins.).

Many people will try not to receive this teaching because they either do not want to let go of the
name Jesus or because they have fallen for a THEORY that The Anointed One's Name has to PHYSICALLY have His Father's Name as a part of His. And with the first three letters seemingly being
the exact same letters as that in His Father's Divine Name it is easy to fall for this THEORY. I myself
was teaching anybody that would listen that The Anointed One's Name was YaHU-Shuah. But when The Anointed One said that He came in His Father's Name He did not say that His Name has His Father's Name within His Name. And when one takes into consideration that the word in Hebrew for name (shem) can also be defined as authority it should become very evident that He came in His Father's Authority not actual Name.

The Anointed One said: "I am come in my Father's Authority, and you receive me not: if
another shall come in his own authority, him you will receive". {YoKhawnawn [John] 5:43}

Considering the context of this story in YoKhawnawn Chapter 5 the Yehudish leaders where not disagreeing with Yehoshua as to what his Name was or how to spell it, but rather why Yehoshua was doing the things He was doing. And Yehoshua was answering the Yehudish leaders why he had just healed a man. That He did so because it was of His Father's will that He do such things. The conversation had nothing to do with His Name or that of His Father's, but rather His Authority to do such things as healing on the Shabbawth. Yehoshua was telling them that He had the Authority of His Father to do these things, and that if another person was doing things by their own authority they would not be having this same problem with them as they were having with Him.

Yet Yehoshua did speak and teach others to speak the Divine Name of His Father no doubt. But still this does not mean that His Name had to physically bare within it the Trigrammaton (Yahu) of the Divine Name.

The Theory that the Anointed One's Name has to physically have a written / phonetic form of His Father's Divine Name within it is built on the same type of conjecture that the Lunar Shabbawth Theory was built off of. Each Theory has Scriptures in which to build their case all the while neither has any factual bases. Keep in mind many an idea has been fostered in which one can use Scriptures to try and support if one takes the Scriptures out of context, and denies actual facts in the matter. Happens all the time.

The linguistics of this name were in play thousands of years before the above mentioned THEORY ever came about. In fact this THEORY is not more than 90 years old (upon the birth of The Sacred Name Movement). There is no other writings any where that taught this name had the Physical form of the Trigrammaton of The Divine Name within it. And when considering that it came about nearly 1,910 years after The Resurrection of The Anointed One one should wonder what was the common belief pertaining to this Name before the 1930s.

When one does an honest investigation into the Hebrew language's rules of grammar they will come to see that this name only appears to have the Trigrammaton of the Divine Name within it. Many fluent Hebrew speakers have never even bothered to consider how the linguistic rules apply to this name. Many have just taken the definition within the Strong's dictionary at face value that the name means "Yahu-Saves". But again it simply means "He Will /Shall Save" referring to The Anointed One not His Father YHWH. Even though technically Yehoshua is the Arm of YHWH in which we will be saved. And back when Moshay first called Hoshayah "Yehoshua" Moshay was referring that Hoshayah through his actions of TRUSTING IN YHWH would be the vessel in which YHWH would save the Hebrew Nation.
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#41
:

Y E ho shu a

.
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#42
Thirdwoe Wrote::

Y E ho shu a

.
:

Y'-hoe-shoe-ah

.
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#43
The Texas RAT Wrote:
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:"Yahshua" and "Yahushua" are inventions from the Sacred Name movement and their belief that Jesus coming in the name of the Father means that He must have had "Yah" in His real name. What Jesus was talking about was having the authority of the Father vested in Him and coming in His place. The "Ye" in Yeshua is though, an abbreviated form of Yahweh (I'm assuming it is just the "Y" in the first syllable and the "e" in the second syllable).
Actually the Name of The Anointed One not only is the same as Yehoshua son of Nun as prophesied in ZekharYahu [Zechariah] 6:9-13, as all scholars worth there degree will readily admit that "The Branch" is a prophetic reference to the coming Anointed One Who would be our Eternal Priest and King. See: YeshaYahu [Isaiah] 11:1-7, YirmeeYahu [Jeremiah] 23:5 and 33:15-16. And they will also just as readily admit that it was derived from the name Hoshayah [Hosea] by simply adding a lone yohd unto the front of it.

Is this above not an assumption. What logic prevents his name from being simply "yeshua" the word for "salvation/deliverance" throughout the OT, rather than derived from another related name?
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#44
The "Ye" in "Yeshua" is short for "Yahweh". The word "yeshua" and the name "Yeshua" are different.
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#45
Actually the "ye-" in Yeshua is unlikely a theophoric. In its Hebrew cognate, the theophoric is certainly there.

In Matthew, the folk etymology is that it means "he will save" making the "ye-" the 3rd person masculine prefix of the Imperfect tense, not short for "Yah."
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