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The Messiah's Name
#48
Sarah Wrote:
The Texas RAT Wrote:Actually the Name of The Anointed One not only is the same as Yehoshua son of Nun as prophesied in ZekharYahu [Zechariah] 6:9-13, as all scholars worth there degree will readily admit that "The Branch" is a prophetic reference to the coming Anointed One Who would be our Eternal Priest and King. See: YeshaYahu [Isaiah] 11:1-7, YirmeeYahu [Jeremiah] 23:5 and 33:15-16. And they will also just as readily admit that it was derived from the name Hoshayah [Hosea] by simply adding a lone yohd unto the front of it.

Is this above not an assumption. What logic prevents his name from being simply "yeshua" the word for "salvation/deliverance" throughout the OT, rather than derived from another related name?
First off there was never anyone named yeshuah[Strong's #H3444] which is simply the feminine passive participle of H3467[yasha]; something saved, that is, (abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity: - deliverance, health, help(-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.

Anyway, yeshuah is from the same root of yasha as Hoshayah and Yehoshuah are, yet they each have different inflections thereof.

During the second Temple period (538 B.C - 70 A.D.), Yeshua/Jeshua first became a known form of the name Jehoshua. All of the Yeshua/Jeshua occurrences in the Scriptures are written in Aramaic form (I Chronicles 24:11, II Chronicles 31:15, Ezrah and NechemYah) where it is transliterated into English as Jeshua in many versions. "Yeshua/Jeshua" is found in the Scriptures where it lists the names of those who returned from the Babylonian exile. Two of these men are mentioned in other books of the Bible written in the Hebrew language, where they are called Jehoshua (mis-transliterated by many into English as Joshua).

"Jeshua the Son of Jotsadaq" in Ezrah 3:2 is the same High Priest mentioned in ZecharYahu 6:11, reflecting two different languages of the same name.

In ZecharYahu, he is called Jehoshua and in Ezrah he is called Jeshua.

{Ezrah 3:2} Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jotsadaq, ...

{ZecharYahu 6:11} Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Jehoshua the son of Jotsadaq, the high priest; ...

Also in NechemYah the name of "Jehoshua the son of Nun" changes to "Jeshua the son of Nun":
{NechemYahu 8:17} And all the Called-Out Ones of them that were come again out of the captivity made booths, and sat under the booths: for since the days of Jeshua the son of Nun unto that day had not the children of YisraAyl done so.

This spelling change (from ?Yod Heh Waw Shin Waw Ayin? to ?Yod Shin Waw Ayin? is due to the Aramaic influence during the exile. For confirmation, check the Strong's Lexicon:

H3442 Yeshua yah-shoo'-ah
For H3091; he will save; Jeshua, the name of two Israelites, also of a place in Palestine: - Jeshua.

H3443 Yeshua yah-shoo'-ah
(Chaldee); corresponding to H3442: - Jeshua.

H3444 yeshuah yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467[yasha]; something saved, that is, (abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity: - deliverance, health, help (-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.

Notice that #3442 and #3443 are the same exact word with the same spelling (vowel points and all), but this lexicon lists them separately. Why is this? Well, if you looked up "Jeshua" in the Lexicon, you will notice that it lists "Jeshua" in Ezrah 3:2 as coming from #3442 and the (same guy) "Jeshua" in Ezrah 5:2 coming from #3443. The reason for the two different Strong's word numbers is Ezrah 5:2 is a part of the book of Ezrah which was written in Aramaic (Ezra 4:8 through 6:18; 7:12-26). This is why #3443 mentions "Jeshua" as coming from "Chaldean".?Therefore, Jeshua is actually the Aramaic rendering of Jehoshua(Strong's #H3091). And Jeshua as an Aramaic transliteration carries the original Hebrew meaning of ?He Will Save?.

Chaldean also Chaldaean or Chaldee
adjective
Of or relating to Chaldea or its people, language, or culture.
noun
1. A member of an ancient Semitic people who ruled in Babylonia.
2. See Aramaic.
Aramaic
noun
a Northwest Semitic language that was the lingua franca throughout the Near East from c. 300 to c. 650: The Aramaic langue began to influence the Hebrew Langue during the Babylonian Exile.

"Jeshua" is therefore the Aramaic form[transliteration] of the Hebrew name "Jehoshua"(Strong's #H3091).

Yet, some claim that Jeshua is a pure Hebrew word and not the Aramaic form of "Jehoshua" at all, but that it is a Hebrew word meaning "Salvation". The problem with that is the Hebrew word for "Salvation" is not Jeshua but y?shuah! Again, take a look in the above lexicon at the differences between 3442/3443 and 3444:
3442 and 3443 use the silent (but anciently guttural) "Ayin" letter to end the word, but #3444 ends in the letter "Heh". While vowel letter under both words indicate they have a similar sounding ending, the different spelling indicates they are two different words.
??
There are different vowel pointing under the first letter - Yod [remember Hebrew and Aramaic reads from right to left]. 3442/3443 (JESHUA) has 2 horizontal dots underneath the first letter like this ( .. ). These two horizontal dots represent the Hebrew Vowel point "Tsere" (pronounced Tsey-rey) which produces the "eh" sound as in the English word "Hey". But 3444 has two vertical dots underneath the first letter like this ( : ). These two vertical dots represent the Hebrew vowel point "Sheva" which is a very short "e", somewhat like our "E" sound in the word "Average". [Check the first page of your Strong's Hebrew Lexicon for verification of this.]

Incidentally, the Sheva( : ) vowel point used by the Masorete scribes in yeshuah is why you will sometimes see it written as y'shuah. The purpose of the ( ' ) is to indicate the presence of the sheva vowel point in Hebrew. But as you can see Jeshua does not contain that vowel point at all. "Jeshua" uses the "Tsere" vowel point (i.e.- .. ) which produces an "eh" sound. Wherefore Jeshua and yeshuah are pronounced differently. The Lexicon indicates this as it gives the pronunciation of Jeshua as 'yay-shoo-ah, but yeshuah as 'yesh-oo-aw.

So the Aramaic name "Jeshua" and the Hebrew word "y'shuah" are not the same. "Jeshua" is the Aramaic form[transliteration] of thew Hebrew name "Jehoshua" and "y'shuah" is the Hebrew word for "salvation".?Therefore, in spite of what some may say, there is no evidence to suggest that "Jeshua" means "salvation" in Hebrew. Again, "Jeshua" is not actually an authentic Hebrew word.

And any argument that Yeshua is not an Aramaic name because it has not etymology in the Aramaic, and therefore has to be a Hebrew name, is the same as saying that the Greek transliteration is not Greek, or even the English transliteration of Jesus is not an English form of the name and therefore must be Hebrew because Hebrew has the only origin for this name. Well yes only Hebrew has this name in it's etymology because it is the language in which this name originated in, and all the rest of these languages only transliterated it.

All the evidence indicates that "Jeshua" isn't from Hebrew, but is an Aramaic form/transliteration of the Hebrew name "Jehoshua".?Being the Heavenly Father's prophesied His Son's Name to be a Hebrew Name, one should not expect to see His Son's Name coming from another language, whether Aramaic/Greek/Latin or English. And since none of these languages have, in the past, transliterated the Hebrew Name of The Anointed One right thus far, why not just correct It now??
[ By the way, once more - nobody throughout history has ever been called y?shuah/yeshuah. Never!!!]

In the Septuagint and other Greek-language Yehudish [Jewish] texts, such as the writings of Josephus and Philo of Alexandria, the N. T. Name of The Anointed One is the standard Greek form used to transliterate the O. T. Hebrew names Jehoshua plus Hoshea where it refers to Jehoshua the son of Nun (Deut. 32:44), and the Aramaic name Jeshua which refers to both Jehoshua son of Nun and Jehoshua son of Jehozadek.

So just how are we to know which one is the correct form of The Anointed One?s Name.

Since we should seek to walk in the truth, we should want to proclaim His Name as YHWH gave It. YHWH is the One Who Named His Son and we simply have no business changing It. It?s all these changes that has brought about the confusion in the first place. It can be complicated to sort through it all, but truth seeking is an honorable thing that is pleasing unto YHWH's eye.? Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of Elohim to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings to search out a matter.

And YHWH, in His infinite wisdom, prophesied what His Son's Name would be, among many other Prophecies, to help us recognize The Anointed One upon His arrival [KEY POINT].

Of course, if we are somehow unable to pronounce The Anointed One's Name, certainly YHWH is able to show mercy. But if we are able to, what reason do we have to continue in error? It would be far better to cleave to YHWH's declaration rather than continue in the mistakes of men, as human error is never superior to YHWH?s Truth!

In the book of ZecharYahu [6:9-13], YHWH states:
And the word of YHWH came unto me, saying, Take of them of the captivity, even of Chelday, of TobiYahu, and of JedaYah, which are come from Babel, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of JoshiYahu the son of ZephanYahu; Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of JEHOSHUA the son of Yehozadek, the high priest; And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaks YHWH of Hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of YHWH: Even he shall build the temple of YHWH; and he shall bear the Splendor, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Most every scholar will be the first to tell you that "The Branch" is a prophetic reference
to the coming Anointed One who would be our Eternal Priest and King.

{YeshahYahu 11:1-7} And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Yesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of YHWH shall rest upon Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of YHWH; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of YHWH: and He shall not judge after the sight of His eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of His ears: But with righteousness shall He judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and He shall smite the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips shall He slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of His loins, and faithfulness the girdle of His reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

{YirmeeYahu 23:5} Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto Dahweed a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

{YirmeeYahu 33:15-16} In those days, and at that time, will I cause The Branch of righteousness to grow up unto Dahweed; and He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Yehudah be saved, and Yerushalayim shall dwell safely: and this wherewith she shall be called, YHWH our righteousness.

ZecharYahu was instructed to take a crown and place it on the head of Yehoshua the son of Yehozadek. When placing the crown on the head of Yehoshua the High Priest, ZecharYahu was told to proclaim: "Behold the man whose NAME is The BRANCH".? Thus, this High Priest [Jehoshua] had the same Name as the coming Anointed One Who would reign as a Priest on His throne. Here YHWH revealed what His Son?s Name would be, so why not call Him by this Name? We see the examples of the apostles who were proclaiming His Name, baptizing in His Name, healing in His Name, and being persecuted for His Name sake unto death, we should be willing to do the same.

Interestingly, there is evidence that although the Name of The Anointed One was written in Greek, It would have actually been pronounced by all the Greek converts the same way a Hebrew speaking person would have pronounce it.

Around 178 AD, a pagan named Celsus engaged in written debates with the Believers of The Anointed One. In one of the written debates, Celsus wrote:
"They assume that by pronouncing the Name of their Teacher they are armored against the powers of the earth and air. And they are quite insistent on the efficacy of the Name as a means of protection: pronounce It improperly, they say, and it is ineffective. Greek and Latin will not do; it must be said in a barbarian tongue to work." Celsus on the True Doctrine, A Discourse Against the Christians, R. Joseph Hoffman (page118)

Notice that Celsus was quoting the Called-Out-Ones as saying that the Name of their Teacher must not be spoken "improperly" and that It must not be spoken in a "Greek" way or "Latin" way, but in a "Barbarian tongue" for It to be effective.

This is evidence that, even though The Anointed One?s Name was written in Greek,
some 150 years after The Anointed One?s Resurrection,
The Anointed One?s Name was still being pronounced in the Hebrew tongue
by all of the Converts (Yehudim/Hebrews and Goyim/Gentiles alike).

And again, in the New Testament,
!!Scripture Identifies Yehoshua as The Anointed One!!


Shaul did every thing in his power to oppose The Anointed One?s Name [as SOME still do],
But then he repented revealing fully The Anointed One?s True Name.

{Acts 26:14-15} ?I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue,
[not Greek nor not even Aramaic]
Shaul, Shaul, why persecute thou Me? It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
And I said, Who art thou, Adon?
And He said,
? I am Yehoshua whom thou persecute.?

Yehoshua is undoubtedly the Hebrew form of This Name. So Among all the various forms of this name "Yehoshua" is the correct form for an English Transliteration as attested to by Yehoshua Himself and as Foretold by YHWH His Father within the Scripture.

Though some might (still) say other forms are good enough. Why continue in error?

Verily, verily, I say to you, Rejoice not in FALSEHOODs, yet rejoice in all Truth. ?

According to the Words [shown here in velvet] of both YHWH and The Anointed One Himself (within Scripture), there is only one Name we should call The Anointed One by. One prophecied in the Hebrew tongue, while the other reiterated the Name in the Hebrew tongue:
Therefore Yehoshua is The Anointed One?s True Hebrew Name!!!


And It is written with a very important meaning:
!He Will Save!


The Book of Numbers (chapter 13 verse 16) attest to the fact that Moshay changed Hoshayah's name to Yehoshuah, and therefore the name Hoshayah [he saved] is the beginning of the etymology of the name Yehoshuah [he will save] (from the root yasha). Yehoshuah was then in latter years (D)evolved into many various forms unto many different languages, yet this does not mean that we can not make an effort to return to the pure language of this name as many willingly agree we should do for the Divine Name of our Elohim. Elohim named His Son and we should respect Him by calling His Son by the Name He gave unto Him, and not by any of the (d)evolved states that marginally literate commoners twisted it into throughout history.
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Messages In This Thread
The Messiah's Name - by Gentile - 09-15-2003, 08:03 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Thadman - 09-15-2003, 11:36 AM
[No subject] - by Gentile - 09-15-2003, 11:51 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 09-17-2003, 08:50 PM
[No subject] - by Gentile - 09-19-2003, 01:15 PM
[No subject] - by Rob Vanhoff - 09-19-2003, 01:50 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 09-19-2003, 02:11 PM
. - by drmlanc - 09-19-2003, 09:10 PM
Re: . - by abudar2000 - 09-20-2003, 09:36 AM
Re: . - by abudar2000 - 09-20-2003, 09:36 AM
. - by drmlanc - 09-20-2003, 09:43 AM
Re: . - by abudar2000 - 09-20-2003, 09:53 AM
. - by drmlanc - 09-20-2003, 01:04 PM
Re: . - by abudar2000 - 09-20-2003, 01:24 PM
. - by drmlanc - 09-20-2003, 10:34 PM
Re: . - by abudar2000 - 09-20-2003, 10:47 PM
. - by drmlanc - 09-20-2003, 10:53 PM
Re: . - by Guest - 09-20-2003, 11:42 PM
. - by drmlanc - 09-21-2003, 12:47 AM
Re: . - by Guest - 09-21-2003, 02:31 AM
. - by drmlanc - 09-21-2003, 02:49 AM
Re: . - by Guest - 09-21-2003, 03:04 AM
. - by drmlanc - 09-21-2003, 08:41 AM
Re: . - by abudar2000 - 09-21-2003, 11:03 AM
. - by drmlanc - 09-21-2003, 02:57 PM
[No subject] - by Gentile - 09-22-2003, 10:48 AM
. - by drmlanc - 09-22-2003, 12:25 PM
. - by drmlanc - 09-22-2003, 12:31 PM
. - by drmlanc - 09-23-2003, 03:39 AM
[No subject] - by Gentile - 09-23-2003, 07:11 AM
Re: . - by Rob Vanhoff - 09-23-2003, 11:37 AM
. - by drmlanc - 09-23-2003, 08:35 PM
[No subject] - by Rob Vanhoff - 09-24-2003, 12:29 AM
. - by drmlanc - 09-24-2003, 03:18 AM
[No subject] - by Gentile - 09-29-2003, 11:28 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Sarah - 02-12-2013, 02:48 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-12-2013, 04:36 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by ScorpioSniper2 - 02-13-2013, 04:11 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 02-13-2013, 06:44 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-13-2013, 07:41 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 02-14-2013, 08:38 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Sarah - 02-24-2013, 04:43 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by ScorpioSniper2 - 02-24-2013, 07:14 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by SteveCaruso - 02-24-2013, 09:01 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-24-2013, 11:20 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by SteveCaruso - 02-25-2013, 03:43 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 02-25-2013, 07:36 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-25-2013, 10:02 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 02-25-2013, 11:43 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-25-2013, 05:01 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by SteveCaruso - 02-25-2013, 06:49 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by SteveCaruso - 02-25-2013, 07:05 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-25-2013, 07:35 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 02-26-2013, 07:33 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-26-2013, 09:00 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 02-27-2013, 04:26 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-27-2013, 07:35 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 02-28-2013, 06:22 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by distazo - 02-28-2013, 07:06 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-28-2013, 08:01 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 02-28-2013, 09:22 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-28-2013, 09:52 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by distazo - 02-28-2013, 10:21 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by distazo - 02-28-2013, 10:23 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-28-2013, 10:57 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 02-28-2013, 07:44 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by ScorpioSniper2 - 02-28-2013, 09:20 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 03-01-2013, 12:25 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 03-01-2013, 07:35 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 03-01-2013, 08:08 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 03-01-2013, 04:44 PM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Sarah - 03-02-2013, 02:37 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 03-02-2013, 05:16 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 03-02-2013, 06:02 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 03-02-2013, 06:47 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 03-02-2013, 08:37 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by The Texas RAT - 03-02-2013, 09:27 AM
Re: The Messiah's Name - by Thirdwoe - 03-02-2013, 12:14 PM

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