INTRODUCTION AND QUESTION

[The Texas RAT]

What did these ones say were heretical that the Netzari teach? Do you have a list of all the Netzari doctrines? If so, I'd like to look them over.

I will get back later with the information, as of right now I am in the process of swapping out computers(plural) and have moved all my files out of three computers into one external hard drive (and things are in an order of disarray). I should be getting at least one(of 3) of the new computers hopefully some time next week. And then I will put the file back in and be able to shift through them to find the stuff. So please be patient with me here.

I consider Mr. Andrew Roth to be my brother in Messiah, though we might not agree on everything or interpret everything the same way. He and I do agree though, that The Church of the East is a good place to be Baptized in, and he has preceded me in that activity...not sure if you knew that.

No I did not know either Roth or yourself had been baptized in the COE. I personally was Immersed in a horse trough in a field and raise to live a new life. I think almost anywhere is as good as any to get started on a new life, awmayn[Strong's # H543].

But, if I should read or hear something I feel like commenting on, I usually do, unless I sense the Holy Spirit specifically telling me not to. I'll say this...I'm real tired of all the divisions among us. Some say The Christians aren't doing it or believing it all right, and that The Messianics aren't doing it or believing it right, or that The Netzaris aren't doing it or believing it right.... I say, we all have some Wood, Hay, and Stubble to be burned up...both individually and corporately, and we all have some Gold, Silver, and Precious Gems which will be purified in the fire to come.

Actually the Apostles (especially Shaul) went around telling all kinds of groups/sects of believers that they where not doing it right either and that they should repent. Also that if another came along and taught differently than they did not to listen to them. So yes while it is not good to condone what is not right about others you are right in that we should try and find common ground as did Shaul:
Act 17:16 Now while Shaul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Act 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Yehudim, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Shaul seemed to take the time to depute every one he came in contact with over any and all Idolatrous practices as it did not set well with the Spirit that lead him.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but Elohim is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1Co 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Now having just missed what Shaul said about fleeing from Idolatry, here is one of Shaul's teachings that many of whom practice Idolatry on a regular basis have twisted time and time again to suite their form of worship:
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith The Anointed One hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Shaul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, The Anointed One shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole Torah.
Gal 5:4 The Anointed One is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Torah; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by trust.
Gal 5:6 For in Yehoshua The Anointed One neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but trust which worketh by love.

OK if we take this portion out of context one might think that the Idolatry mention in Torah is no longer off limits to believers as they are no longer under or abligated to follow Torah, but what what does Shaul say next in conjunction to the first portion of this teaching:
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Gal 5:10 I have confidence in you through the Adon, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

Shaul is exhorting the believers to stay on track and stop following teachers that would lead them astray.

Gal 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
Gal 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the Torah is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Torah.

"Yep" they would say see here we that walk in the Spirit are not under/obligated to the Torah. But wait just what is walking in the Spirit or even more so important to point out here is what is what Shaul calls, walking in the flesh which he explains is totally contrary to walking in the Spirit.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of Elohim. (see also: Revelation 22: 14-15)

Hold your horses did he just say that not only is Idolatry in the same boat/ship/realm as many other unattested wicked deeds? I would have to think so! So is it really no longer a sin to practice Idolatry just because those who walk in the Spirit are no longer under Torah? How any one could teach that those of whom practice pagan rituals will be in the Kingdom of Elohim from this chapter is beyond me? And just what then does walking in the Spirit entail (as we just saw what it does not).

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, trust,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no Torah.

And what a surprise that the Torah is not against such as the a fore mentioned as it was all along trying to teach us just such, was it not. So no Torah is not against such as such is the Torah's teachings. But Walking in the Spirit does not and can not entail Idolatry as that is contrary to the Spirit's very nature. So -

Gal 5:24 And they that are The Anointed One's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

i.e. - not in the flesh of Idolatry!

Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

And here is where those of whom that prefer to practice Idolatry try and use this last verse as a brow- beater to tell people that it is a sin to teach against their Idolatrous ways. As I mentioned about the Two Houses as long as they are split apart there will be dissension between brethren (i.e. - the 12 tribes and there grafted-in gentile converts), and only when they become one in Torah will there be unity. So I to am not only weary at times of the lack of unity among believers, but I long for the day that The Anointed One will bring us back together in one accord. And hopefully this is what we are doing here, trying to iron out our differences by riding ourselves of sin until we all walk no longer in any flesh that divides, yet in the Spirit of which we will have no differences to be had. See one can not rid the world of difference simply by accepting the others way but every one must repent of their sins and walk in the Spirit which brings unity - which by the way will never lead anyone to commit the sins of pagan Idolatresses.

I don't love my Brothers and Sisters in Messiah, because they might see everything the same way as I might see it, I love them because I have the love of Messiah in me, period...and am compelled to love them, even if they might despise or reject me for not believing and practicing all of their particular group's tenants. I'm not thinking you do...and I hope you don't.

Your right in that I do not love only those that love me because I think as they do, but that I love every one, including my enemies as The Anointed One first loved me (that is to say He loved me when I was not on His side). I love every person upon this earth as lead by the Spirit and I condemn no one as that is not in my job description, but I do hate sin as my Father in Heaven hates sin, and as a follower of The Anointed One I when appropriate in a loving manner point it out if and when lead. Here is not particularly one of those times nor places so I have yet to point anything in particular out calling it a sin such as Idolatry nor have I said this group or the other is the ones doing it as mention I do not feel lead here to do so. But I did feel lead to share information pertaining to the differences between the Messianic movement and the Netzari for clarity sake and clarity sake along. And I also seemed to feel a need to point out again for the sake of clarity that brotherly love can not by any means walk in much less condone Idolatry, coming in nor going out, as the only Spirit which can lead one to love would never lead anyone to do so. And yes there are a lot of trivial things that we should over look among the brethren for Unity sake, but Idolatrous practices are not one of such to be over looked

Here is a passage in Mark and Luke, which I always think of regarding these things.

Mark 9: 38-40
"Yohannan said to him, "Rabbi, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him because he did not go out with us." Yeshua said to them, "Do not forbid him, for there is no man who does a powerful work in my name and can soon speak badly about me. Whoever therefore is not against you is for you."

Luke 9:49-50
"And Yohannan answered and said, "Our Master, we saw a man who cast out a demon in your name and we forbade him, for he does not come after you with us." Yeshua said to them, "You shall not forbid, for whoever is not against you is for you."

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


Shlama,
will