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The Age of the Peshitta
#70
Shlama Akhi Memradya,

memradya Wrote:
Quote:If you're an Aramaic speaker of any modern dialect of Aramaic, and you cannot understand my transcription above from 6AD, then it is a shame.

I'm not. I don't think that there's anybody who couldn't understand it. But the Israeli who speak modern Hebrew could say the same thing about the tongue of the Bible.

Totally different, your analogy does not hold water. A modern Israeli who speaks modern Hebrew is speaking a reconstructed language, largely resurrected by Theodore Hertzl and other Zionists during the 19th-20th centuries. They did not speak this language for nearly 2,000 years before it was resurrected as a native tongue. It is very different from Biblical Hebrew, especially in pronunciation.

That is *not* the case with Aramaic, which has been continually spoken for at least 3,000 years. Up until today - an unbroken line.

memradya Wrote:That make me think : I can't hardly understand what someone coming from Quebec says, and he speaks French like me, but with an accent very different from mine. It's a matter of habbit...

Again, your analogy doesn't correlate. A French Speaker from Quebec or even the West Indies has a large distance and cultural difference from the mainland. Same thing with modern Spanish and it's various children dialects in Latin America. There is no cultural tie, a descendant of an African slave in the West Indies can be speaking a totally unrecognizable language to you, even if based somewhat on French. I'm assuming you're not by heritage, an African ?

memradya Wrote:I have no doubt that a 4 Century Aramaic speaker could understands what the 1st Century one says ^^. It doesn't mean that there is not difference between first and four Century Syriac.

Of course there were differences. There still are today. A language that is stuck in time is a dead language, like Latin. Aramaic is not dead, yet.

memradya Wrote:Orthography : old syriac is rather litteral. By contrast classical Syriac is rather historical. We see it with the linea occultans, where the orthography doens't represent the pronunciation.

The linea occultans came much later in the written manuscripts of Classical Syriac, based on the interpretation of the scribe, which at times showed differences in geography. The oldest manuscripts do not contain any markings.

memradya Wrote:Phonology : The use of shin instead of samkath to indicate a voiceless palatal fricative which will be pronunced in classical syriac exactly as the samkath.

I don't know who you've been talking to, maybe a "Syriac Orthodox" speaker, but under no circumstance do eastern speakers EVER pronounce the Shin as a Semkath. Ever.

memradya Wrote:Some features which differenciate old Syriac from classical Syriac.
It would be like " Peshitto is a 1st Century book "!!! . No, it doesn't because it is written in western Syriac, and in the first Century the division in two diallects didn't occur. It's not a matter of content, but of form...

Those two you listed aren't anything that differentiate the "Old" Syriac from the "Classical" Syriac. You find one inscription from 6AD that was from another city, at another time, that has a slight variation on how the 3rd-person imperfect is formed, and you've created a mountain from a mole hill.

There are far more variances between modern dialects from two villages in Iraq that are right next to each other, within walking distance, than there are from these mole hills you keep trying to paint as mountains.

Being more literal than another manuscript can be the result of the preference of the scribe/translator. Again, as I've told Steve Caruso before .... absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence.

Your pool of primacy sources is small to begin with, and coupled with loose criteria like "literalism" or "markings" - makes for some wild assumptions on your part. Yes, there are valid differences from 1st-century Aramaic dialects and those from later centuries. Are they significant enough to warrant a change in the name of the dialect? No. They aren't.

We don't call Corinthian Greek, "Doric" - simply because it different slightly from the Attic base of Koine Greek. Neither do we call the language in the United States - "Americaic", simply because it differs slightly from the English spoken in Great Britian (including the large variances there.)

Your classification of the Aramaic dialect of Edessa as "Syriac", an intentional differentiation in order to draw distance from it and the language of Christ, is simply unwarranted and (perhaps unintentionally) deceitful.

+Shamasha
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Messages In This Thread
The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-20-2013, 10:21 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-21-2013, 01:09 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-21-2013, 02:31 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-21-2013, 04:33 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-21-2013, 04:45 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-21-2013, 05:06 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-21-2013, 05:29 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-21-2013, 05:38 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-21-2013, 06:20 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-21-2013, 06:44 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-21-2013, 02:05 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by distazo - 11-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-21-2013, 07:15 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by memradya - 11-23-2013, 11:49 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-23-2013, 08:31 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-23-2013, 09:27 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by distazo - 11-24-2013, 11:34 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-24-2013, 04:19 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by memradya - 11-24-2013, 08:06 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Charles Wilson - 11-24-2013, 08:11 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-24-2013, 09:07 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-24-2013, 09:18 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-24-2013, 09:19 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-25-2013, 01:03 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-25-2013, 01:17 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-25-2013, 01:55 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-25-2013, 02:03 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-25-2013, 02:14 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-25-2013, 02:18 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-25-2013, 02:32 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-25-2013, 02:39 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-25-2013, 03:37 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-25-2013, 03:58 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-25-2013, 05:39 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-25-2013, 06:10 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-25-2013, 06:18 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-25-2013, 08:30 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by distazo - 11-25-2013, 09:55 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-25-2013, 04:39 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-25-2013, 04:58 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-25-2013, 05:07 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-25-2013, 05:19 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by memradya - 11-25-2013, 07:59 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-25-2013, 10:49 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-25-2013, 11:09 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-25-2013, 11:11 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-25-2013, 11:24 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-26-2013, 03:54 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-26-2013, 04:32 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-26-2013, 06:24 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-26-2013, 06:39 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-26-2013, 06:55 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by distazo - 11-26-2013, 08:30 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-26-2013, 01:39 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by memradya - 11-26-2013, 07:20 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-26-2013, 07:37 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-26-2013, 07:56 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Stephen Silver - 11-26-2013, 08:31 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-26-2013, 08:37 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-26-2013, 09:03 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-26-2013, 09:04 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-26-2013, 09:05 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-26-2013, 09:17 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Stephen Silver - 11-26-2013, 09:27 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-26-2013, 09:31 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-27-2013, 06:20 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-27-2013, 08:42 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-27-2013, 02:12 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by memradya - 11-27-2013, 07:54 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-27-2013, 09:05 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-27-2013, 10:05 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-27-2013, 10:58 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 12:07 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 12:16 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-28-2013, 12:25 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 12:45 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-28-2013, 01:03 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 01:08 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 01:20 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 01:21 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 01:30 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 01:34 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 01:43 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-28-2013, 01:44 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 01:52 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 02:18 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-28-2013, 02:27 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 02:41 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 02:47 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 02:49 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-28-2013, 02:59 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 03:02 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 03:03 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 03:12 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-28-2013, 03:25 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-28-2013, 03:28 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 03:34 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-28-2013, 03:47 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 03:53 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-28-2013, 03:56 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-28-2013, 03:58 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 04:01 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 04:02 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 04:05 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 04:59 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by konway87 - 11-28-2013, 05:28 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by SteveCaruso - 11-28-2013, 05:57 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Thirdwoe - 11-28-2013, 06:59 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by distazo - 11-28-2013, 07:36 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Stephen Silver - 11-28-2013, 07:47 AM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-28-2013, 03:31 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Charles Wilson - 11-28-2013, 06:19 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by memradya - 11-28-2013, 06:58 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-28-2013, 07:38 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-28-2013, 08:12 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-28-2013, 11:34 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by distazo - 11-29-2013, 12:18 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-29-2013, 03:19 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by ScorpioSniper2 - 11-29-2013, 05:00 PM
Re: The Age of the Peshitta - by memradya - 11-29-2013, 07:19 PM

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