Poll: The need for a free, public domain, and non-copyright English version of the Eastern Peshitta
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Yes, get a group of volunteers who know Aramaic and will try to do this from scratch using the Aramaic manuscripts available. <Except the Khabouris - which is copyrighted>
7.69%
1 7.69%
Yes, get a group to instead revise the existing translations (Etheridge or Murdock) using the Eastern / ACoE manuscripts and also consulting Etheridge, Murdock, and Norton texts. <Not using the Khabouris though, because it is copyrighted. >
0%
0 0%
Yes, but rather assemble a group of volunteers to help update and complete the Paul Younan Interlinear.
23.08%
3 23.08%
Or...translate the Khabouris manuscript, if provided permission from the copyright holder(s).
23.08%
3 23.08%
No, rather request that the upcoming CoE translation fulfil the role of "free", "non-copyright" and "public domain" version of the Bible.
23.08%
3 23.08%
NO! There is NO need for another translation of the Bible to be out there!
7.69%
1 7.69%
No! Do it yourself! I won't partake in this.
7.69%
1 7.69%
I don't care.
7.69%
1 7.69%
Total 13 vote(s) 100%
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What's your opinion on this?
#31
distazo Wrote:even if you're 100% unbiased and start making a perfect translation, and you got another faithful person doing the same, your two translations will differ because of the nature of Aramaic (e.g. the root word for live/salvation is the same).
Hence a good Interlinear with Strong's like Numbers and a good dictionary would make good tools to add in studies, plus the more translation (I know it sounds greedy when other languages have only one or non) help out in this manner. Only two could leave people wondering but with more it should smooth out things. I also know that the Western PeshittO is almost identical to the Eastern PeshittA, as its base text is the Eastern PeshittA to start with, so by knowing when and where the Western strayed the English translations thereof can be useful as well but still I wish for pure Eastern Aramaic PeshittA translations. Yes I am BIAS in this way, but I can not seem to help myself as the evidence leans toward it being the BEST and OLDEST TEXT of THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA we have to this day. Plus I too was one of them that was getting frustrated trying to make sense out of the Greek mess and then I find the Eastern PeshittA cleared up all of the mess. And yes there are somethings that will take the Ruakh's help still to understand but at least it is the WORD that I am trying to discern instead of whether or not the Text is the WORD or not. Finding the Eastern PeshittA got me past all the messes and into the WORD, awmayn. And in that I just can not see wanting to suppress translations from it.
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#32
distazo Wrote:
Burning one Wrote:Shlama,


i'm a believer who has read from and been blessed by many English translations of Scripture. i've also been blessed by Hebrew translations, Greek translations, and for a blessed number of years now, from the true Aramaic text itself.

Alaha has used the fallible translations of men's earnest attempts at conveying HIS Word to build up my faith and comfort and empower me, and to remind me of my sins - and every translation i've ever read has been an aide in some way, even if i didn't realize it at the time.

[snip snip]

Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Nicely said.

I am just worried about the public confusion. Those 'variants' do not convince someone who does not believe, it is even misused by those who want to sow doubts.
It's a little like Paul said, that languages do not convince those who are outside and weak christians (I mean, not having a good fundament) are not helped by more translations.


Shlama akhi,


i think to be fair the dynamics of public misunderstanding are always going to be an issue, which is why brother Paul (in Scripture) admonishes that we know the Word, to be thorough with it and ready to teach and admonish -- to uphold it against those who would tear it down. people like you, like Paul Younan, David Bauscher, Victor Alexander, Andrew Roth, Janet Mageira, Murdock, Etheridge -- you are those who have added in different ways to uphold the truth, to let the light shine in the facet of your own translation, and aide in the upbuilding of other's faiths. this is a blessing, ultimately. there is always room for improvement, for better appreciation of the actual language. believe me, as one who is in the process of translating, i know that the best translation, no matter how many are involved, can only be a facet of the revelation found when reading the real deal.

it shouldn't surprise us, really, if we stop and think about it. the Word is described as a "double-edged sword." it is advantageous to translate, yet it also can have drawbacks. this is where the translator must act in devotion and fear when translating. to render as comprehensible and as correct as possible. to pursue the mind of the Infinite One who truly penned the original words. it is scary, i'm sure you recall, to be holding the pen, or typing the keys, knowing that you are part of the flow and sharing of HIS MIND to mankind, to communicate the message of salvation in His Son ALONE. it is sobering and yet a blessing beyond our most sincere of appreciations. let us applaud the work of those who have gone before us, and not hinder the work of those who will yet provide another offering to the testimony of truth.


personally, i know all too well about the misuse of the variants and mistranslations of the Greek manuscripts. i know what they do to people of both strong and weak faith. in my own walk, many years ago i entered the arena of textual criticism, wanting only to know the true Word, the valid inspired text, and came out doubting and confused over WHAT was inspired even more than when i entered. my faith in HIM was not shaken - but my faith in the inspiration of the Word was severely troubled. it was in the aftermath of that event that i started looking seriously at the claims being made by those in the Peshitta-Primacy community, and in doing so, my faith in the inspiration of the Word was thoroughly restored and validated. pouring over Greek manuscripts and textual apparatus details, with a copy of the East Peshitta Aramaic text at hand brought solace never found elsewhere. i want others who might be troubled in similar ways to have the same restoration of faith in His Word. HE is trustworthy, and because He is, we can ultimately trust that His Word will be, as well.

blessings!

Jeremy
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#33
distazo Wrote:So, if the CoE will create an official translation, what will a public domain version help here?
Regards

A public domain version may be used freely! It would be non-profit, generous, free, and available. For example, Gideon's International freely distributes bibles to people and it puts Bibles into hotels across the USA. They now print NKJV, and probably pay a royalty...

Imagine them finding a most accurate version of New Testament online for free, and being able to distribute it (with no royalties)! (Imagine a good Peshitta translation in every hotel across the USA also!)

Also, people could share the text -- a "select few" would NOT be controlling / restricting the text. Also a public domain version would not so focus on the financial profit, but rather helping people out. In the realm of copyright-dominated Bibles, a public domain Peshitta could be like July 4, 1776!!!!
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#34
DrawCloser Wrote:
distazo Wrote:So, if the CoE will create an official translation, what will a public domain version help here?
Regards

A public domain version may be used freely! It would be non-profit, generous, free, and available. For example, Gideon's International freely distributes bibles to people and it puts Bibles into hotels across the USA. They now print NKJV, and probably pay a royalty...

Imagine them finding a most accurate version of New Testament online for free, and being able to distribute it (with no royalties)! (Imagine a good Peshitta translation in every hotel across the USA also!)

Also, people could share the text -- a "select few" would NOT be controlling / restricting the text. Also a public domain version would not so focus on the financial profit, but rather helping people out. In the realm of copyright-dominated Bibles, a public domain Peshitta could be like July 4, 1776!!!!


Shlama akhi,

this is how it should be. freely we've received, freely we should give! Alaha willing, it will happen!


Jeremy
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#35
Burning one Wrote:[snip]

personally, i know all too well about the misuse of the variants and mistranslations of the Greek manuscripts. i know what they do to people of both strong and weak faith. in my own walk, many years ago i entered the arena of textual criticism, wanting only to know the true Word, the valid inspired text, and came out doubting and confused over WHAT was inspired even more than when i entered. my faith in HIM was not shaken - but my faith in the inspiration of the Word was severely troubled. it was in the aftermath of that event that i started looking seriously at the claims being made by those in the Peshitta-Primacy community, and in doing so, my faith in the inspiration of the Word was thoroughly restored and validated. pouring over Greek manuscripts and textual apparatus details, with a copy of the East Peshitta Aramaic text at hand brought solace never found elsewhere. i want others who might be troubled in similar ways to have the same restoration of faith in His Word. HE is trustworthy, and because He is, we can ultimately trust that His Word will be, as well.

blessings!

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,
Exactly. I also went into that arena. But as Daniel B. Wallace, a Greek primacist said, and I agree with that, we should avoid the extreme positions. The first to be avoided position is that we have the infallable text. The other is that nothing in the text can be trusted.

In the Peshitta, we find also find 'harmonisations' or a few distortions, (however for the sensitive among us, the Peshitta grammar is flawles, compared with the Greek).
For instance, the prayer, 'our father in heaven' has a long ending, which is probably 'smoothed' and has an addition of out of the OT (Matthew 6:13) because the ancients found it strange to let a prayer end with the word 'evil', like in Luke 11:4.

However, a lot of the inspired Word, like in the OT, has some redundancy correction built in. To me, this all is a great inspiring work to do. To many others, who have heard too much propaganda against the Bible, not really helping. <!-- sSad --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="Sad" title="Sad" /><!-- sSad -->
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#36
I'm not as passionate of a Greek primacist as a lot of other people are. The Peshitta is a valuable resource that Christians should take advantage of! Syriac is a beautiful language.
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#37
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:I'm not as passionate of a Greek primacist as a lot of other people are. The Peshitta is a valuable resource that Christians should take advantage of! Syriac is a beautiful language.

Hi Scorpio,
I am a free thinker who is an Aramaic primacist, but we never can 'beat' the Greek primacists without listening to what they say.
This thing, he said is very true.
Extreme positions about the source texts that we have, do not assist us neither help others to gain faith in God.

I've been in that position, in the past, when I was a 'Watchtower slave', I found that absolute positions (in textcriticism) do not really convince and neither can be supported by the available facts.
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#38
Very eloquently put. If you know my theological beliefs, you'll know I don't really give much of a crap for tradition. The final authority for all things is the Word of God, and the Word of God is pretty silent about what language it was written in. Aramaic primacy is not a ridiculous position by any means.
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