Poll: The need for a free, public domain, and non-copyright English version of the Eastern Peshitta
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes, get a group of volunteers who know Aramaic and will try to do this from scratch using the Aramaic manuscripts available. <Except the Khabouris - which is copyrighted>
7.69%
1 7.69%
Yes, get a group to instead revise the existing translations (Etheridge or Murdock) using the Eastern / ACoE manuscripts and also consulting Etheridge, Murdock, and Norton texts. <Not using the Khabouris though, because it is copyrighted. >
0%
0 0%
Yes, but rather assemble a group of volunteers to help update and complete the Paul Younan Interlinear.
23.08%
3 23.08%
Or...translate the Khabouris manuscript, if provided permission from the copyright holder(s).
23.08%
3 23.08%
No, rather request that the upcoming CoE translation fulfil the role of "free", "non-copyright" and "public domain" version of the Bible.
23.08%
3 23.08%
NO! There is NO need for another translation of the Bible to be out there!
7.69%
1 7.69%
No! Do it yourself! I won't partake in this.
7.69%
1 7.69%
I don't care.
7.69%
1 7.69%
Total 13 vote(s) 100%
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What's your opinion on this?
#16
Luc Lefebvre Wrote:Other cultures do just fine with ONE translation, let alone the many to be distracted by. And so did we with all the great revivals and holiness movements using nothing but a KJV.
I have no doubt that many such as you and I, as well as millions of others, came to know or Heavenly Father through His Only Begotten Son by His Word translated into English of the KJV, yet at the same time it would really be nice to have one real good one so that I as well as millions of other would not be mislead into believing the wrong things here and there. And to cut down on any/all distractions brought about by thee mirid of other translations then (as I have said before and will say again) - "BURN 'EM".
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#17
I don't think you should burn any Bible, whether it be a reliable translation or not. Every translation is only the Word of God as long as it agrees with the original text (whether you believe the best text to be the Peshitta, Peshitto, Byzantine, or Alexandrian). The vast majority of the translations we have are fantastic, so why would we not want to make use of these valuable resources? Each translation serves a certain purpose, some to be simply read, some to be studied. The New International Version or The Message would be more useful for reading than the New American Standard or the Amplified Bible, while the latter two translations would be better for study because of their being literal translations.Even though I prefer a literal translation, just because it is a literal translation does not make it more accurate.

I am familiar with The Testimony of Yeshua but I haven't used it yet. He seems to use the Tetragrammaton in places in which it doesn't appear, but I suppose that isn't really theological bias... <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh -->
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#18
I noticed he some-times renders MarYah as "Alaha" when it is referring to YHWH, and always as "the Master" or "Master" when it refers to The Anointed One.
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#19
That's a disappointment I had with Herb Jahn's Aramaic New Covenant. It is strange that he replaces MarYah with Alaha, and is simply inaccurate translation. Based on what Brother Chuck said, Lee Martin did more of a paraphrase of the Etheridge and Murdock translations than another translation.
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#20
:

Here is what Lonnie says about his version.

"It is not a translation. It is a version based on the Murdock and the Etheridge translations?from the original Aramaic, but with extremely updated English."

Also, I notice that when Lonnie feels that a Greek NT reading should be in his version, he puts it in there, and says in his notes, that "The Aramaic is missing" this or that verse or part of the verse...so he picks and chooses which verse should say what.

Also, he decides how often to insert YHVH into the text, where The Aramaic Text has Marya, or Alaha...which he believes were substitutes for the Tetragramaton both in the 1st Aramaic Manuscripts, and in the 1st Greek Manuscripts. So, he chooses which places this should be reversed.

So, really this is another NT, created in the image of the one who is doing the editing work...But not really what The Text actually says.

I can't recommend this revision of Etheridge's and Murdoch's translation. Too much Lonnie at work here and not enough of The Aramaic Scriptures speaking what they really say.

If you are looking for The Eastern Aramaic Peshitta, or even The Western Aramaic Peshitto NT...it's not here Brothers and Sisters. But, if you desire a GreekaHebraShitta...this is it, looks like.

Here is another statement by Lonnie...

"On average, 20 hours of research and editing went into each chapter. Should anyone want to sponsor any particular book of the Testimony of Yeshua, and receive a simple honorable mention at the end of the book (i.e. Matthew), the cost would be 20 hours times the Federal minimum wage of $7.25, times the number of chapters in the book. Funds would be directed toward hiring very qualified help to do a substantial first editing of the Gabriel Version of the Tanak (Old Testament), at considerably more per hour."

Hmmmm, so, Lonnie...if I wanted a "simple honorable mention" at the end of your version of The Gospel of Matthew...it would cost me $145.00 per Chapter... $145.00 x 28 Chapters = $4,060.00


Shlama,
Chuck

.
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#21
Thirdwoe Wrote:Also, I notice that when Lonnie feels that a Greek NT reading should be in his version, he puts it in there, and says in his notes, that "The Aramaic is missing" this or that verse or part of the verse...so he picks and chooses which verse should say what.
It seems Lonnie is one whom believes that the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA is nothing more than a revision of the Western PeshittO and that even it was a translation of the Greek texts.

Thirdwoe Wrote:Also, he decides how often to insert YHVH into the text, where The Aramaic Text has Marya, or Alaha...which he believes were substitutes for the Tetragramaton both in the 1st Aramaic Manuscripts, and in the 1st Greek Manuscripts. So, he chooses which places this should be reversed.
Again if the Greek texts where superior to the Aramaic then this could be a justified Hebraic Roots restoration of the text. But all evidence is to the contrary.

Thirdwoe Wrote:I can't recommend this revision of Etheridge's and Murdoch's translation. Too much Lonnie at work here and not enough of The Aramaic Scriptures speaking what they really say.

Anther so-called Aramaic version muddying the waters. Oh for the day unto a pure English translation of the Eastern Aramaic Peshitta.

Thirdwoe Wrote:if you desire a GreekaHebraShitta...this is it, looks like.
HEBEGEBEES,
GIBBERISH GOBBLEDYGOOK you say? OY VEY!!!
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#22
Noooo

Arent English readers, confused enough with those many translations? For hundreds of years, the KJV did very well and it had its pros.

Creating another flaky translations will do no good, even if it was public domain.

(because no translation will directly be good and straight)
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#23
Shlama,


i'm a believer who has read from and been blessed by many English translations of Scripture. i've also been blessed by Hebrew translations, Greek translations, and for a blessed number of years now, from the true Aramaic text itself.

Alaha has used the fallible translations of men's earnest attempts at conveying HIS Word to build up my faith and comfort and empower me, and to remind me of my sins - and every translation i've ever read has been an aide in some way, even if i didn't realize it at the time.

so i would NEVER sanction a limit on translations of His Word - how dare we? who do we think we are to limit the reach of the Spirit in conveying eternal Words? just THINK for a moment: the Law will go fort from Zion one day, so EshaYa tells us. i'm thinking that's Messiah explaining His Father's Word in a flawless translation and application for our ears and hearts. so apparently, explanation / clarification is still required.

nobody knows what might reach one person in need of claiming Messiah's sure-saving blood - the ESV, KJV, Geneva, Murdock.... leave that to HIS working, and be THANKFUL we have translations. because ultimately, there's only one WORD - MESSIAH - who is vital to us all (which version did our father Abraham read from? exactly.). He is the Living, Breathing, Word who bled for us, and the Written Word is Messiah in a "Love Letter format" for us all.

my own bride can tell me she loves me in many ways, and each way is still her speaking. in the same manner, each translation by man has its degrees and nuances of meaning that another translation might not convey. use them as you see fit in a living, spiritual manner - and remember the best one is the one you will read.

Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#24
:

I too have had and still do have many (maybe 50) English translations of The Aramaic, The Greek, and The Latin...and even The Coptic New Testament...but I can't recommend a lot of them for serious study. I think most of us, desire to have a translation that sticks as close to the actual words of the text that is being translated, and if that?s not possible in translation and it be understandable, then it may be said in other words which conveys the same meaning.

Shlama,
Chuck
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#25
Burning one Wrote:Shlama,


i'm a believer who has read from and been blessed by many English translations of Scripture. i've also been blessed by Hebrew translations, Greek translations, and for a blessed number of years now, from the true Aramaic text itself.

Alaha has used the fallible translations of men's earnest attempts at conveying HIS Word to build up my faith and comfort and empower me, and to remind me of my sins - and every translation i've ever read has been an aide in some way, even if i didn't realize it at the time.

[snip snip]

Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Nicely said.

I am just worried about the public confusion. Those 'variants' do not convince someone who does not believe, it is even misused by those who want to sow doubts.
It's a little like Paul said, that languages do not convince those who are outside and weak christians (I mean, not having a good fundament) are not helped by more translations.
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#26
distazo Wrote:I am just worried about the public confusion. Those 'variants' do not convince someone who does not believe, it is even misused by those who want to sow doubts.
It is not the righteousness of the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA that they use to sow doubt but the variances thereof within the Greek translations that are being used to sow doubt upon THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA.


distazo Wrote:It's a little like Paul said, that languages do not convince those who are outside and weak christians (I mean, not having a good fundament) are not helped by more translations.
Where are you going with this circular thought? Such people are not going to be helped with flawed translations either. You seem to be saying that the correct readings could not be understood by the worldly people, so just keep the flawed translations as it is good enough to win them over to the truth. If they are not going to understand the purest form of The Word then what does it matter as the flawed form will do them no better. Yet The Purer form would help those whom are seeking truths, while the flawed translation only serve to hinder them. If you think to many translations are a problem, then after purer translations are made, burn off the excess from the faulty side, not by standing in the way of better translation being made.

Yes many have come to know YHWH and His only begotten Son through a mirid of perverted translations but how much more through the purest Word of YHWH?

And trying to use such excuses as there are already enough Eastern Aramaic translations out there is based upon a lie, as most of them are truly Western PeshittO translation, in which were renderings of the Eastern PeshittA to conform it unto the mistakes and perversions within the Greek translations of the Eastern PeshittA (or possibly from the Mother Text in which the Eastern PeshittA was copied) to start with. Why hold onto many confusing translations while limiting ones of a PURER Nature???

But for those whom would prefer to study and preach/teach from either the Greek families or even from the Western Aramaic PeshittO families by all means they should do as they wish. But let them be cursed (of themselves) if they think they can stop the Eastern PeshittA from coming into the full light of day.

Who are they to say that just because they are satisfied with a translation that has half truths and pure perversions within them gives them the right to speak out again the PUREST FORM OF THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA (a.k.a. - The Eastern Aramaic PeshittA)!!!

If people prefer a faithful translation of the Eastern PeshittA they have a right to pursue this means to no end. Ask yourselves just what spirit would want to perpetuate the perversion over the purest form possible? Would it not be that of HaSawtawn (the adversarial spirit against the WORD Of YHWH)?

So I say again (not because I think we should, but rather to those whom want to put a limit upon The TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA), as if making truer translations of THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA could add any confusion brought on by the mirid of faulty and perversed translations out there already, then simply burn of the chaff (i.e. - the worst of the translations out there today) until there is room enough in their minds eye for the most faithful translations, instead of trying to burn other's hopes and dreams of a Purer translation from the PUREST TEXTs (a.k.a. - The Eastern Aramaic PeshittA) of The TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA!!!

I could tell you of more than one tragic story rout from the believes based upon faulty translation and how faithful translations from the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA would squash such ignorance, but most are long and it should be suffice to say there are more said stories based on trusting faulty translations than there are faulty translation.

LONG LIVE THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA THROUGH ITS FAITHFUL EASTERN ARAMAIC PESHITTA and as many truthful translations thereof, PERIOD!!! !!!

{Psalm 1:1}
Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. [Nor tries to stop those seeking the pure WORDS of truth within the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA]
(New International Version)

Again stick with what ever translation(s) you wish just do not stand between the PUREST FORM OF THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA coming forth unto a dying world, lest yeah find yourself on the side of The Adversary to YHWH's WORD.

From one Eastern Aramaic PeshittA onliest:
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.

Your brother in Yehoshuah The Anointed One.

will
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#27
Oh, and, I forgot that many are leaving the Trust because of the faulty translation built upon the Greek translation, but many are finding solace again within the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA as it clears up the confusion. So based upon the testimony of many that said the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA saved their Trust in THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA I would say do not try and stop it as it is what is turning back the tide of confusion not causing it. Again it is the translations built upon the Greek families of translations that have caused this problem in the first place, and they themselves are unable to do otherwise.

THE PUREST IS ALWAYS THE BEST FORM, SO LONG LIVE THE EASTERN ARAMAIC PESHITTA, and ALL FAITHFUL TRANSLATIONS THEREOF!!! AND MAY THERE BE MANY FAITHFUL TRANSLATIONS OF THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA via THE EASTERN ARAMAIC PESHITTA!!! AWMAYN.

PLEASE READ FROM THE FOLLOWING THREAD:
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#28
Hi Texas,

Why do you waste so much words on condemning me? I made a translation myself.
The CoE will create a official translation and I trust this one will be good.

I just point to a fact, that people get confused by the variations while THOSE variations, that exist, are not against the basic faith of Yeshu. So, if the CoE will create an official translation, what will a public domain version help here?
I stop arguing because I get the idea that my opinion is being misinterpreted.

Regards
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#29
distazo Wrote:Hi Texas,

Why do you waste so much words on condemning me?
I wasted no words nor did I condemn anyone. I stated facts and condemned actions (not people), so that perhaps others will not buy into your misleading opinion to stop the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA from coming full circle.

distazo Wrote:I made a translation myself.
The CoE will create an official translation and I trust this one will be good.
I too hope and trust that the COE translation will be a good one true to the Texts of the Eastern PeshittA, yet I see no need to stand against other independent translations from being made to help substantiate their translation by the conformity in which they will share by accurately translating the Eastern PeshittA Text. If a hundred translations are made from the Eastern PeshittA they should all say the same thing as there is no variations within its Text. And it seems funny that some one whom saw a need for a new translation is now condemning others from doing so. And again I am not for burning the Greek, Latin or any English translations, I was simply trying to convey that if we see a need to limit how many translations we are allowed then the older less accurate ones steaming from the flawed Greek translations should be what goes, not any future accurate ones of the purest form of THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA that we have to date. So just as some have stood up for the translations of the past I vehemently stand for the translations of the future from the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA Text (only).

distazo Wrote:I just point to a fact, that people get confused by the variations while THOSE variations, that exist, are not against the basic faith of Yeshu. So, if the CoE will create an official translation, what will a public domain version help here?
It would help to substantiate the COE's translation by showing unity of the Text. Yeah imagine translations one after another that agree instead of disagreeing as those from the Greek families do. Such translations would help bring down confusions, and help people to find that THE TESTIMONY OF YEHOSHUA is stable and unwavering. Something that the Greek translations are having a hard time doing. According to the concerns you claimed here it would make more sense for you to be against making translations from the Greek as there are thousands already out there in which the confusion is coming from. It makes no sense at all for some one wanting to cut down on confusion to take such a stand against translations being made from the Eastern PeshittA.


distazo Wrote:I stop arguing because I get the idea that my opinion is being misinterpreted.
If your opinion is not to stop accurate translations from being made from the Eastern PeshittA then yes I have misunderstood you. But if your opinion is to stop or set a limit upon accurate translations of the Eastern PeshittA so that the people of this world are left basically with the Greek texts mess then I would say you have not been misunderstood. Perhaps you should take the time to state clearly what your motive is to be so stanch against the Eastern PeshittA coming to the full light of day through translations. After all there are no variations within the Eastern PeshittA Text(singular) to confuse anyone over. There are only variations from within the Greek families(plural) and the Western PeshittO families(plural) that are causing confusion, and for good cause as these variants are flaws.

But what is confusing to me (and here is the ticker) is why one would think to use the confusion created by the Greek and Western PeshittO translations to stop or limit translations from a Text that has no variants and clears-up the confusion these flawed translations created? Again, what spirit would want better translations steaming from the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA to never see the light of day claiming that the mess we have is good enough? Why keep the mess while refusing better translations? Why not get with the better Text to translate and just simply walk away from the rest? I spent years trying to make sense of the translations you prefer I settle with, and then once I finally come to the conclusion that the Eastern PeshittA clears-up the mess there are those that want me to settle with the Greeks texts mess. Well excuse me if I prefer not to see things your way and hope and pray for English translations of the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA only. And yes I think more than one would be nice, as well as a permissible goal. The only future translations you have swayed me to become stanch against is there should never be another translation made from any of the Greek families ever again due to the fact that they are flawed. Why not just drink from the pure water flowing from the eastern PeshittA as opposed to trying to filter the muddy waters steaming from the Greek translations?

P.S.- distazo, what Ancient Text/translation did you use to make your translation? And what language did you make it into?
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#30
Hi Texas, ok good, no issues here.

Just this; even if you're 100% unbiased and start making a perfect translation, and you got another faithful person doing the same, your two translations will differ because of the nature of Aramaic (e.g. the root word for live/salvation is the same).

I used Dukhrana to translate into a Dutch peshitta translation at <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.nl">www.peshitta.nl</a><!-- w -->

(Often I see google translate on this site, but Google Translate to 'english' makes the translation a sloppy job)
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