08-30-2012, 05:57 AM
Apparently, this has been up for debate from the time of the cross. The people at the foot of the torture-stake were not sure as to just what Yehoshuah The Anointed One had said, and even the Greek translators had no clue as to which language He had spoken.
As mentioned by someone else here in another thread, in Scrivener's Greek texts of Mattith-YaHu we see "G2241 ELI, G2241 ELI, G2982 LAMA G4518 SABACHTHANI?" which according to the Strong's dictionary G2241 ELI and G2982 LAMA are of Hebrew origin while G4518 SABACHTHANI is of Chaldee(i.e.-Aramaic). While in Markos 15:34 we see " G1682 ELOI, G2982 LAMA G4518 SABACHTHANI?" in which " G1682 ELOI and G4518 SABACHTHANI are according to the Strong's dictionary from Chaldee, while G2982 LAMA is from Hebrew. Now it is well known that the Scriviner's Greek text was nothing more than a greek translation of the English Version of the KIV(king Iames Version), so while it is not anceint by any means it does atest some what as to the texts that the king Iames Version translators used. Apparently both Books have Yehoshuah mixing up His speak in to different languages.
Now in the Westcott and Hort Greek Text which still is only a newer Greek text (critical Greek version of sort) made-up by reviewing many Greek texts and picking and choicing just what was said, have in both instances Yehoshuah The Anointed One speaking in both the Hebrew and Chaldee.Yet both times He says "My Alah" in Aramaic.
{Matti-YaHu 27:46 (Westcott and Hort)}
G1682 G1682 G2982 G4518
{Markos 15:34 (Westcott and Hort)}
G1682 G1682 G2982 G4518
The Tischindorf Greek version is exactly the same as Westcott and Hort's Greek version.
The Byzantine texts has the same thing that Scriviner's text has.
{Matti-YaHu 27:46 (Byzantine)}
G2241 G2241 G2982 G4518
{Markos 15:34 (Byzantine)}
G1682 G1682 G2982 G4518
Stepen's Greek version of older Greek Texts also has Yehoshuah the Anointed One speaking both languages in this one sentence. Also it has Him Saying "My Ayl" in Hebrew and "My Alah" in Aramaic between the two accountrs.
{Matti-YaHu 27:46 (Stepen's 1550)}
G2241 G2241 G2982 G4518
{Markos 15:34 (Stepen's 1550)}
G1682 G1682 G2982 G4518
Between all the Greek texts Yehoshuah in both Books changes the language back and forth from Aramaic and Hebrew. Mattith-YaHu always has Him saying "My Ayl" in Hebrew and Markos always has Him saying "My Alah" in Aramaic. Both have Him saying Lama in Hebrew and both have him saying sabachthani in Aramaic. So you can see that unless the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA is as accurate as many claim we will not really know until the actual 1st century texts are found.
Remember that Yehoshuah was laboring for breath and in great pain when He spoke these words and it would have been hard for any of the witnesses to know for sure which language He had spoken in, considering accents and such to boot. So as to whether Yehoshuah The Anointed One spoke Hebrew or Aramaic argument, according to the Greek texts, is mute at this point, as they have Hi speaking both languages in this one sentence.
So now, just what does the Eastern PeshittA have in these 2 verses? Does it swap back and forth in this one sentence like Murdock and Etheridge show. This is where a Hebrew and Aramaic expert needs step in.[I am sure Lamsa just followed the kIV so I really do not think there needs be any investigation unto what he rendered in his rendition of Scripture.]
Some one here not long ago addressed this issue of which of these languages would have made the most sense as to how each greek translators could have gone either way. I can not remember exactly what they said but I am pretty sure they said the Aramaic made the most sense. If you are the one whom wrote that piece please chime in here.
As mentioned by someone else here in another thread, in Scrivener's Greek texts of Mattith-YaHu we see "G2241 ELI, G2241 ELI, G2982 LAMA G4518 SABACHTHANI?" which according to the Strong's dictionary G2241 ELI and G2982 LAMA are of Hebrew origin while G4518 SABACHTHANI is of Chaldee(i.e.-Aramaic). While in Markos 15:34 we see " G1682 ELOI, G2982 LAMA G4518 SABACHTHANI?" in which " G1682 ELOI and G4518 SABACHTHANI are according to the Strong's dictionary from Chaldee, while G2982 LAMA is from Hebrew. Now it is well known that the Scriviner's Greek text was nothing more than a greek translation of the English Version of the KIV(king Iames Version), so while it is not anceint by any means it does atest some what as to the texts that the king Iames Version translators used. Apparently both Books have Yehoshuah mixing up His speak in to different languages.
Now in the Westcott and Hort Greek Text which still is only a newer Greek text (critical Greek version of sort) made-up by reviewing many Greek texts and picking and choicing just what was said, have in both instances Yehoshuah The Anointed One speaking in both the Hebrew and Chaldee.Yet both times He says "My Alah" in Aramaic.
{Matti-YaHu 27:46 (Westcott and Hort)}
G1682 G1682 G2982 G4518
{Markos 15:34 (Westcott and Hort)}
G1682 G1682 G2982 G4518
The Tischindorf Greek version is exactly the same as Westcott and Hort's Greek version.
The Byzantine texts has the same thing that Scriviner's text has.
{Matti-YaHu 27:46 (Byzantine)}
G2241 G2241 G2982 G4518
{Markos 15:34 (Byzantine)}
G1682 G1682 G2982 G4518
Stepen's Greek version of older Greek Texts also has Yehoshuah the Anointed One speaking both languages in this one sentence. Also it has Him Saying "My Ayl" in Hebrew and "My Alah" in Aramaic between the two accountrs.
{Matti-YaHu 27:46 (Stepen's 1550)}
G2241 G2241 G2982 G4518
{Markos 15:34 (Stepen's 1550)}
G1682 G1682 G2982 G4518
Between all the Greek texts Yehoshuah in both Books changes the language back and forth from Aramaic and Hebrew. Mattith-YaHu always has Him saying "My Ayl" in Hebrew and Markos always has Him saying "My Alah" in Aramaic. Both have Him saying Lama in Hebrew and both have him saying sabachthani in Aramaic. So you can see that unless the Eastern Aramaic PeshittA is as accurate as many claim we will not really know until the actual 1st century texts are found.
Remember that Yehoshuah was laboring for breath and in great pain when He spoke these words and it would have been hard for any of the witnesses to know for sure which language He had spoken in, considering accents and such to boot. So as to whether Yehoshuah The Anointed One spoke Hebrew or Aramaic argument, according to the Greek texts, is mute at this point, as they have Hi speaking both languages in this one sentence.
So now, just what does the Eastern PeshittA have in these 2 verses? Does it swap back and forth in this one sentence like Murdock and Etheridge show. This is where a Hebrew and Aramaic expert needs step in.[I am sure Lamsa just followed the kIV so I really do not think there needs be any investigation unto what he rendered in his rendition of Scripture.]
Some one here not long ago addressed this issue of which of these languages would have made the most sense as to how each greek translators could have gone either way. I can not remember exactly what they said but I am pretty sure they said the Aramaic made the most sense. If you are the one whom wrote that piece please chime in here.