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Yukhanan 21:15-17
#1
Shlama Brethren,

In Yukhanan 21:15-17, Maran Eshoa asks Keepa whether or not he loves Him - 3 times. After each "yes" answer, Maran asks Shimon to "tend" his lambs, sheep, sheep - if one happens to be reading the Greek translations.

Please reference the Greek Interlinear NT found on the following URL:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/">http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/</a><!-- m -->

...it's very important to see the Greek for yourselves.

In the Aramaic Peshitta, we have a much clearer teaching, and while reading from the Aramaic the reason for the Greek mistranslation of these verses becomes clear.

In the Peshitta, the words Maran uses to denote "sheep" are 3 distinct words, as opposed to the Greek, which only uses 2 ('Arnion', Lamb, and 'Probaton', Adult Sheep.)

The original Aramaic words used are as follows:

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rm0 [/font](Amrea) - Young Sheep (Lamb, word# 1330)

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0br9 [/font](Aerba) - Adult Sheep (Masculine, word# 16205)

And, finally, the one that stumped the Greek translator(s):

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0wqn [/font](Niqwa) - "Ewe", Adult Sheep (Feminine, word# 13542 - which, by the way, the Lexicon has coded to an erroneous Lexeme and Root - this word even stumped the creators of the Lexicon!)

The last word is a very rare word, used only once in the OT Peshitta (as NQWA), and found only once in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The root NQWA simply means, "female", but it is very rarely used because there are other words which mean "female" that were more popularly spoken.

When the Greek translator(s) of Yukhanan ran across this word, they simply substituted "Probaton" again in verse 17, the same word used in verse 16 - they had no idea how to translate it.

In the process, the teaching of the Messiah was diluted - Maran Eshoa was asking Shimon to "tend" all of his "sheep" - men, women and children.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#2
Shlama, Akhi Paul

<<(Niqwa) - "Ewe", Adult Sheep (Feminine, word# 13542)....
In the process, the teaching of the Messiah was diluted - Maran Eshoa was asking Shimon to "tend" all of his "sheep" - men, women and children. >>

The point you seem to make is not quite categorical: Are you saying that by using a 'figure of speech' or a rhetorical device, Jesus intends to tell his apostles to tend to every sheep, 'to the last' (using a cultural status symbol) in a non-feminist culture?

Could it be that in popular pastoral language of that time, the "Ewes" had for the shepherd households special connotations, strong enough to overcome the implication of 'femenine' individuals as the members of his Church?

Regarding a closely related idiom:

What exactly did the expression "This is the Lamb of God"... mean to every aramaic listener, which was immediately recognized without needing any explanation in the Gospels (other than "who takes away the sins of the world")? Was the sacrifice for atonement something as familiar and constant as the Eucharist or Communion is today, for example?

Thanks again for you insight,

Shlama w'burkhate

Jaza
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#3
Shlama!
Wonderful, Akhi Paul! I love that interpretation of yours.
I???ll dare to add something else I have noticed --in my novice???s astonishmen-- in these verses, leading me to a deep thought (BTW, a detail Zorba forgot): It???s the (redundant?) DOUBLE 1st person suffix
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Yrm0 Yl Y9r
Ybr9 Yl Y9r
Ytwqn Yl Y9r[/font]
Maran Eshoa ask Keepa (your interlinear translation has it very clear): ???Tend MY lambs... sheep... ewes FOR ME??? (Or: Tend-ME MY ...), That is, NOT FOR YOU! (=Don???t appropriate yourself MY lambs...!) That???s something (we) Church Pastors should remember always! (occasionally we forget that) :-)

A little doubt however: Concerning the word [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Ytwqn[/font], according the dictionaries I have (J. Ferrer/ M.A. Nogueras, Breve Diccionario Siriaco, Barcelona 1999; J. Brun sj, Dictionarium Syriaco-Latinum, Beyrut 1895), it is the plural (+ suffix) of [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yqn [/font]: sheep (latin, ovis), feminine noun. The other word meaning ???female??? in these dicts. is [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Fbqn [/font] (NEQBAT, abs [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0bqn[/font]; pl [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Fb^qn [/font]NEQBATA). I don???t know if in modern Aramaic, due to the softening of the Qusaya, as both words are pronounced equally (the WAW = BET), NEQBA became > NEQWA, as you put it. Is that right? Or it???s a different word, rare as you say, which doesn???t appear in ???normal??? lexicons?

Shlama,
Ab. Valentin
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#4
Shlama Ab. Valentin,

Thank you for sharing that little 'nugget'. Wonderful! I also love that this is an imperative! Do this FOR me!

I too have wondered at the similarity between the words [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yqn [/font]and hbqn / [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0bqn [/font].

It seems to me however that these roots are unrelated. A glance at the definitions for the root bqn will reveal that this root is related to certain traits that are considered 'female' or 'feminine', while yqn is associated with innocence or cleanliness.

I'd like to hear what Akhan Paul thinks, though.

Shlama,
Rob
<font face="Estrangelo (V1.1)" size="4">
hnm Lqt4n hl ty0d wh P0 hl tyld Nmw hl Bhytn ryg hl ty0d Nm
(w4y</font>
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#5
Rob Vanhoff Wrote:Shlama Ab. Valentin,

Thank you for sharing that little 'nugget'. Wonderful! I also love that this is an imperative! Do this FOR me!

I too have wondered at the similarity between the words [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yqn [/font]and hbqn / [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0bqn [/font].

It seems to me however that these roots are unrelated. A glance at the definitions for the root bqn will reveal that this root is related to certain traits that are considered 'female' or 'feminine', while yqn is associated with innocence or cleanliness.

I'd like to hear what Akhan Paul thinks, though.

Shlama,
Rob

Shlama Akhay Valentin w'Rob w'Javier,

You are correct Rob - the words are unrelated. The normal word for "Sheep", [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0br9[/font] - is masculine. The word for "Lamb", [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rm0[/font] is also masculine.

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yqn[/font] means "Sheep" also, like "Erba" above, but it is feminine.

So you can see the imagery that Meshikha is creating here by using these different words and genders. <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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