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Second coming of Yeshua Meshikha


Facts are one "decides" them...they just ARE.

And the Fact is...Christ has not yet returned to judge the World and to raise the bodies of the Saints. That did not happen in 70 A.D., but one day...on The Last Day, as He said, it will happen?Hopefully sooner than later.

Folks can try to make the Bible say all kinds of strange things...and even make it sound right. On some levels.

The Peshitta does not teach that Christ Returned in 70 A.D., nor does the Greek version, the Latin version, the Coptic version...or even the English versions.

The Holy Church of God has NEVER taught this to be the have to go outside of it and find a heretic or two who is teaching it somewhere. And it serves no good purpose at all like I said, but only to stir up some more strife and cause some more divisions.

Ask yourself the questions...what will it change and how will it affect our lives, if we believe that the Return of Christ happened almost 2,000 years ago? And what is to become of this World that continues on? Does it continue as it is, on into more and more moral wickedness and spiritual confusion? To what end?

No need to respond, just think about it for a while.

If everything was wrapped up in 70 A.D., as you have been hearing some teach... then why is all the food still on the table?

No hard feelings from my side Konway...I've heard all this stuff before, but not from you, and I'm telling you, it's only imagination and speculation, which serves no good purpose.

Thirdwoe Wrote::

And the raising of the Saints at the time of Christ's Resurrection in 30 A.D. could not be the Resurrection spoken of by Christ, that is to take place on The Last Day, when He Returns to judge the entire world and put down ALL dominion and rule and free the entire creation of its bondage to death, which it was subjected to, unwillingly.

That former resurrection was indeed also prophesied to take place at the physical resurrection of Christ, when He "lead captivity captive", and is not the same physical resurrection that is prophesied to take place at the end of time, on The Last Day, when all the dead in Christ since that time, receive their glorified physical bodies at the Return of Christ.

And so...If the former Saints who rose from the dead at the time of Christ's resurrection was on The Last Day...then how is it that this was 40 years before 70 A.D. when you say the Return of Christ took place, which is when the later Resurrection of the dead in Christ is to take place, when He comes to establish His Kingdom, on this restored planet on The Last Day...the Day of the Lord, as Prophesied by the Prophets and Christ Himself?

Small point....the actual resurrection of some of the saints occurred at the time of Christ's death, not His resurrection according to Matthew 27:52.
hmm, heretical ideas always come and go, the Orthodox church stands tall. The gates of hell will not prevail against the church....

Quote:Small point....the actual resurrection of some of the saints occurred at the time of Christ's death, not His resurrection according to Matthew 27:52.

Yea, it seems to say they rose before His Resurrection took place, when the graves were opened at the time of the earthquake at the time of His physical death, but perhaps were not seen until after He rose from the dead on the 3rd day.

Thanks for the clarification, I've editied my post above.

Quote:Yea, it seems to say they rose before His Resurrection took place, when the graves were opened at the time of the earthquake at the time of His physical death, but perhaps were not seen until after He rose from the dead on the 3rd day.

We'll, maybe not though...

Aramaic Acts 26:23 ?that M?Shikha should suffer and that he should be the first to rise from the dead, and that he should preach light to the people and to the Gentiles.?

Greek Acts 26:23 ??that the Christ must suffer and that by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.?

Aramaic Matthew 27:53 ?...and came forth and after His resurrection entered the holy City and were seen by many.?

Greek Matthew 27:53 ??and having gone forth out of the tombs after the resurrection of Him they entered into the holy City and appeared unto many.

So, it could have been that even though the tombs were indeed opened at the time of the earthquake when M'Shikha's physical body had died, the Saints may not have actually risen until after M'Shikha rose first...

I'll have to study this more.

Chuck: Lazarus was also raised from the grave. Obviously his resurrection predated that of Yeshua by some considerable time. But here is the difference. Lazarus was brought back to life, but no indication that his body was transformed/glorified. Any more than the various miraculous risings during the prophets (eg Elisha) or Yeshua's ministry. I think the saints that were raised at the time of Yeshua's death inhabited restored but not glorified bodies. Hence I suspect they probably later died again, just like Lazarus did. It is interesting that such an incredible event did not get any coverage from Mark, Luke or John. I am very interested to hear what your study reveals. HSB
This is a message for Moderator Paul Younan since he wanted me to contact him about this subject.

Paul, Did you receive my PM?


What are your thoughts on Psalm 68:18 and Ephesians 4:8, in relation to those who were released from the grave?

And these two verses as well...

Acts 1:9 "And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight."

Heb 12:1 "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,..."

Thirdwoe Wrote:So, it could have been that even though the tombs were indeed opened at the time of the earthquake when M'Shikha's physical body had died, the Saints may not have actually risen until after M'Shikha rose first...

I'll have to study this more.


I have translated it with these texts you citate, in harmony. THey cannot have been resurrected indeed. Because, Yeshu was the first.
I know that many would shiver with the idea of a non-standard translation like this, but I suspect that this verse, somewhere, has been damaged. It also has given food for cult teaching like in 2 Timothy 2:18.

52 de tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones who slept got up,
53 and were thrown out. After his resurrection they were seen by many who entered the holy city.

Explanation: The earthquake caused the bones/skeletons to be thrown out. This is a possibility.
They were not resurrected, but after the sabbath, which was probably at sunday for travelers TO Jerusalem the first moment to be seen.
During the sabbath, nobody would dare to travel to Jerusalem because that was a forbidden act. This is why Matthew wrote that the 'bones of the holy ones' were seen. Not that teh bones themselves went into the city!
Another strange thing, why would the holy ones WAIT 3 days until they moved into Jerusalem?
Why did not any other apostle or writer discuss the issue? It certainly would have caused upheaval and plots to kill them again because it would prove that Jesus was the messiah (sort of).
Chuck: Thanks for the response and questions. Here are a few of my thoughts. I am not a theologian or Bible scholar. I bow to superior wisdom and insight.
Regarding Psalms 68 I believe it is a ?psalm of procession? recounting the history of God?s workings with Israel from Sinai through to His enthronement in Jerusalem. Part of this psalm focuses on Mount Zion and the ascension specifically in verse 18. It was normal in ancient times for kings who staged elaborate victory processions to parade their conquered foes in chains as part of that process to exalt over/humiliate the opposition etc.
I happen to believe that Israel as a nation plays out a role that parallels a heavenly theme. Mashiach is identified so often with them, intertwined so to speak. Thus in Hosea chapter eleven, for example, the call out of Egypt clearly applies to Israel my son. We know from Matthew 2:15 that this verse applies to Yeshua as well. There are lots of other examples with which you are no doubt very familiar.
The parallel to the procession ascending to Mount Zion in Psalms 68 is Yeshua ascending to heaven. According to Paul in Ephesians 4:8 this represents both the triumph of the Resurrection but also the utter humiliation of His foes who are figuratively ?bound in chains? as part of the procession. I suppose the foes are death, sin etc. The divine king in Psalms 68 goes on to give gifts among men. These Paul connects with God?s providence to the Church. It is noteworthy that Paul only quotes half of the verse in Psalms 68:18. The last portion indicates ? ?that the LORD (YHWH) God may dwell there?. Then keep reading into verse 19? ?The God who is our Yeshuah (salvation)? Wow. Sounds a lot like Revelation 21 and 22, those majestic chapters concluding the last book of the Bible, and yet to come. Maranatha!
I don?t see how ?captivity? necessarily involves setting the dead free in Psalms 68:18 nor in Ephesians 4. The processional brings ?foes in chains? as the captives, not dead saints in my opinion. Others may disagree.
On to Acts 1:9. Not sure what specific viewpoint you have in mind. I think the verse simply says at face value that Yeshua was taken up into the clouds. Help me with richer insights.
For Hebrews 12:1 many Christians use this verse with its reference to ?witnesses? to support a theology that at death believers? souls go directly to heaven, where they enjoy the benefits of fellowship with other departed ones, worship God, walk the streets of gold etc. They also claim that these individuals are also aware of events and developments on earth and can ?cheer on? believers down here. The Roman Catholic church has a well developed ?understanding? of how this all occurs, with saints interceding for us, etc. To me the word witness would be better translated as ?testifier?. We have just concluded an entire chapter eleven in Hebrews reviewing the faith of these earlier martyrs. They serve as role models and examples, not personal coaches.
These are my own thoughts. I have no idea if the Churches of the East subscribe to the doctrine of the conscious existence of departed believers. I must say that the last two Christian funerals I attended had numerous references to the freedom and enjoyment that the recently departed now possessed?that they were encouraging (not simply that their lives were an encouragement). Yet Paul in 1 Thessalonians specifically and repeatedly refers to the departed as ?asleep? and that we look forward to the physical resurrection yet in the future. He even says we are expected to encourage one another with these words?.of certain HOPE. I ask why anyone would want to be resurrected with a body on earth when they are already enjoying heaven so much!! The Hebrew understanding (and I believe Paul?s) is that the resurrection is still future. Otherwise it's all Greek to me!
Try not to read to much thelogy into your opinions.

It would have been no biggy if every dead person came back to life, like Lazareth, the little girl, and the widows son, because none of them had ascended to Heaven. They all stayed here and died again. Yehoshuah is the First Born of the Resurrection in that only he had entered into the Kingdom of YHWH(Elohim/Heaven). Well unless we consider Khawnoke[Enoch]? Or even Aylee-YaHu[Elijah](?), was he not transformed when he road a chariot to Heaven? So we have Khawnoke and Aylee-YaHu in Heaven long before the 1st Century. But then again neither Khawnoke or Aylee-YaHu were resurrected from the dead either, as they both were transformed from this life unto the next. So actually the only One, so far, that was Resurrected and take- up was Yehoshuah.

There problem solved.

As to whether the texts say that the bones lied on the ground or that the people got up and walked around I do not know, but either way there need be no theological panic. As stated Yehoshuah is the First-Born from the DEAD, as He was the only One that Died and was resurrected and then literally entered The Kingdom of YHWH(Elohim/Heaven). No one else has died was resurrection and then entered in to The Kingdom of YHWH(Elohim/Heaven) as of yet. Correct me if I am wrong.

YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.

Your Brother in Yehoshuah The Anointed One.
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