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Yeshu, Yehoshua, or Yeshua
#16
:

My 1st thought is...we have yet another form in spelling! "Eashoa" But he pronounced it as if it were spelled "Esho" so the "a" "ain" seems to be silent at the end and he adds another "a" after the 1st letter "Yod", but it is not present in the four letter name and is not heard in the pronunciation, so why add it in there?

Peace,
Chuck
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#17
Shlama akhay,

Pronunciation varies with dialect, as well as if one is even a native speaker of the language. The ayin itself is difficult to truly pronounce correctly, anyway

So Messiah could have likely heard all manner of pronunciation during His time on earth, and been fine with it, just as He hears all manner of pronunciation now, while in Heaven.

Yeshua
Yeshu
Eshua
Eshu
Esho
Etc

I have a hard time believing it was even remotely pronounced correctly by the Roman populace, yet He spoke with all and never is recorded as correcting their pronunciation.

I think even Paul Younan once said on here that he would go with Yeshua since Eshu is more Eastern, anyway.
(Paul, if you're reading this and recall exactly what you said feel free to clarify) <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
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#18
The majority of Peshitta translations seem to use Yeshua. Murdock and Lamsa translated the Aramaic name as Jesus. Younan, Bauscher and Roth use Yeshua. Etheridge used Jeshu in his translation. Alexander uses Eashoa. So we have five different pronunciations of translations of the Peshitta. I know the Orthodox Jewish Bible uses Yehoshua for the Messiah's name but David Stern's Complete Jewish Bible translation uses Yeshua like most Messianic translations. I know Lamsa uses the "Eshoo" version in his introduction (on the table containing English Biblical names with their corresponding Aramaic names).
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#19
Shlama Akhay,

In the eastern pronunciation, when you have a Yodh followed by the vowel E, the Yodh becomes silent (or more correctly, it takes on the long EE sound).

This is the case with all names, not just Yeshua>Eshua....YeshaYahu/Eshaya(Isaiah)...Yetzkhaq/Eskhaq(Isaac). Etc.

The "ye" sound, over time, melded into "ee"...you can easily pronounce both and can see the natural transition over time.

+Shamasha
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#20
:

Hi Brother Paul, How about the letter "a" at the end? is this for the "ain"? I see it left off many times. Like Eshu or Esho or Yeshu.
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#21
Thirdwoe Wrote::

Hi Brother Paul, How about the letter "a" at the end? is this for the "ain"? I see it left off many times. Like Eshu or Esho or Yeshu.

Hi Chuck

The final "a" sound is there in the pronunciation if you listen carefully. It's more of a guttural stop, than a full letter sound like other consonants.

It's hard to explain, but Aleph an Ayin aren't vowels. They are consonants.

The Ayin, especially, is a difficult sound to make and recognize. In modern Hebrew, it's indistinguishable from the vowel "a". But that's from the influence of european languages on Jews.

The original pronunciation can be found with languages like Arabic and Aramaic.

You can make the Ayin sound by touching the back of your tongue to your tonsils. Sorry, that's the best way I can explain it. Like I said, it's more of a guttural stop than an actual sound.

+Shamasha
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#22
I can't seem to find a video of anyone able to pronounce Ayin. I'd like to know how but it is a hard one lol
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#23
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:I can't seem to find a video of anyone able to pronounce Ayin. I'd like to know how but it is a hard one lol

How to pronounce it properly at the beginning, in the middle and at the end of a word. (more than you wanted to know, but slightly entertaining)

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ro6b50-Lk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ro6b50-Lk</a><!-- m -->

+Shamasha
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#24
Good gollie, Paulie! That's a challenge! I'm trying to learn how to read Aramaic and Hebrew. I'd like to be able to pronounce accurately. I have slight OCD, so it kills me to not be able to pronounce the ayn. I know a lot of non-native speakers don't pronounce the ayn, or the pronounce it with a "ai" sound.
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#25
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:Good gollie, Paulie! That's a challenge! I'm trying to learn how to read Aramaic and Hebrew. I'd like to be able to pronounce accurately. I have slight OCD, so it kills me to not be able to pronounce the ayn.

Here's a simple exercise. You probably have pronounced it before and not associated the sound with a Semitic letter.

Say "Saudi Arabia" out loud. It's right here: Saw(**right here is a brief guttural stop**)-dee Ar-ray-bee-aa"

It's that brief stop before the D.
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#26
:

Thanks for the link Paul...it was informative and very funny too...now I need to make a YouTube video for her, so she can pronounce the word "Choke" properly...lol

She says it like "Chawk" when explaining that you need to "Chawk yourself" to help pronounce the "Ayin" sound. We had a good laugh with all that, but it was a great lesson and she did a fine job and got "Choke yourself" closer the 2nd time around...

So, when I see "Esho" or "Eshu" in the printed Liturgy books, it is spelled phonetically there, and not as it is gramatically, correct?

Shlama,
Chuck
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#27
Thirdwoe Wrote::

Thanks for the link Paul...it was informative and very funny too...now I need to make a YouTube video for her, so she can pronounce the word "Choke" properly...lol

She says it like "Chawk" when explaining that you need to "Chawk yourself" to help pronounce the "Ayin" sound. We had a good laugh with all that, but it was a great lesson and she did a fine job.

So, when I see "Esho" or "Eshu" in the printed Liturgy books, it is spelled phonetically there, and not as it is gramatically, correct?

Shlama,
Chuck

Hey Chuck,

Yes, I was laughing out loud during that one. Can't wait to watch her Kheth video. Talk about chawking. But at least with Kheth, there are cognate sounds in Indo-European languages like German.

Ayin is truly a shibboleth to Arabic, Aramaic and certain pockets of Hebrew speakers who preserved it (those in Yemen and Iraq who were in close proximity to other Semites never lost the original pronuncition.)

We are limited by he Latin characters when writing in English, so there is no way to write names like Yeshua or Eshu and hope to convey how to pronounce it.

It's not an a, though. So maybe it's a bit deceiving to spell it with an a. I've seen people use the ' character.

Maybe Eshu' ? Yeshu' ?

At the end of a word, you would not hear it unless you're really listening for it. How do you hear a stop?

+Shamasha
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#28
I am still struggling with this. It's a frustrating letter! How much does not pronouncing ayn effected the sounds of words?
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#29
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:I am still struggling with this. It's a frustrating letter! How much does not pronouncing ayn effected the sounds of words?

Quite a bit. It's one of those things that makes Modern Hebrew stand out as a resurrected language, as opposed to one that's been continually spoken throughout the ages.

Unfortunately these little things are lost and the language doesn't sound the same today as it did two thousand years ago.

+Shamasha
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#30
Here's another video showing the pronunciation of the ayin, this time from the perspective of ancient Hebrew. The ayin is about 6 minutes and 50 seconds in,

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7RIAPosxEI&feature=plcp">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7RIAPosxEI&feature=plcp</a><!-- m -->
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