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The gospel of Jesus Christ: What is it?
#16
Hi Seeker.

You may be interested in the writings of Mar Isaac of Nineveh (St. Isaac of Nineveh), a seventh century theologian in the CoE. There are some resources online and some translated works on amazon.com. His writings contain some of the more spiritual inward-looking writings within the CoE patrimony, and this touches heavily on your questions and this topic

+Shamasha
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#17
Thanks again, Alan. Thanks to you, too, Thirdwoe.

This is exactly what I was looking for:

Arkady Wrote:It is the teaching of the Orthodox Church that the kingdom of God (the one we should strive for) is the reigning of the Holy Ghost within us.

Now I get how the resurrection played a role and how "near", according to the Assyrian church, does seem to equate to time rather than distance. If I'm not mistaken, it was only -after- His resurrection that Jesus breathed on the apostles and gave them His Spirit, not before, and thus was also included the "key" (which is the Spirit) to the kingdom of God. Your stance completely makes sense to me now.

Having said that, the idea seems to be quite different from what I've learned, but hopefully, over time (and by the grace of God), I can accept and understand His Truth, instead of depending on my own (or others') interpretation of what His truth really is.

Paul Younan Wrote:Hi Seeker.

You may be interested in the writings of Mar Isaac of Nineveh (St. Isaac of Nineveh), a seventh century theologian in the CoE. There are some resources online and some translated works on amazon.com. His writings contain some of the more spiritual inward-looking writings within the CoE patrimony, and this touches heavily on your questions and this topic

+Shamasha

Shamasha, I can't thank you enough for that recommendation and for your help. I'll have a look and see what I can come up with. Thank you also for this forum, which is a very valuable resource of information that you've provided to the public. Not sure how I stumbled upon it, but I'm really glad I did.
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#18
p.s. Arkady and Shamahsa, if it's not too much trouble, and if you don't mind, I'd like your thoughts on one last thing. Will PM you both in a few minutes.

Thanks.
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#19
Seeker Wrote:If I'm not mistaken, it was only -after- His resurrection that Jesus breathed on the apostles and gave them His Spirit, not before, and thus was also included the "key" (which is the Spirit) to the kingdom of God. Your stance completely makes sense to me now.
In the act of Jesus breathing on the Apostles The Holy Spirit comes down upon them not hypostatically but as The Spirit of Christ to impart to them the gift of the priesthood so that they receive power to forgive sins of men.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (John 20)

As in the beginning He animated Adam into a living soul

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2)

So now He does Apostles into His priests ('priest' not in the hierarchial sense of the word). From now on they are the special living personalities. 'Priest' is not an office, or commission, or work, or serivice. He's not merely a man but he is of human nature. It's an Angel in some sense but higher than them because they serve him. So every time when priests lay hands on the new priest-to-be, Christ stands in front of him and breathes on him in the like manner if the candidate for priest is found worthy of Him. Otherwise the laying on of hands is of no effect.

This gift is different from the ones they received on the day of Pentecost.

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. (Luke 24)

AND when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2)

On this day they were baptized in The Holy Spirit (Fire) and the Body of Church was knit together with its apostles, prophets and laymen.

Arkady. Russia.
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#20
Did receiving the Spirit have nothing to do with being given the keys to the kingdom? If so, then when exactly did Jesus give His disciples that key?

Also, what is the "key?" Is it not the Spirit?
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#21
Seeker Wrote:Did receiving the Spirit have nothing to do with being given the keys to the kingdom? If so, then when exactly did Jesus give His disciples that key?

Also, what is the "key?" Is it not the Spirit?

Yes. It is the Spirit.

Words of Symeon the New Theologian > Volume 1 > Chapter 3 Three Hypostases of The Godhead are equal in everything (from russian translation)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Symeon_the_New_Theologian">http://orthodoxwiki.org/Symeon_the_New_Theologian</a><!-- m -->

Quote:The door is the Son: "I am the door" (John 10:9). The keys to the door are the Holy Spirit: "Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." (John 20:22-23). The Father is the house: "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2).

Tractates on the Gospel of John (Augustine) > Tractate 124
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Quote:The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins.

Concerning Repentance (Ambrose) > Book I Chapter 7
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34061.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34061.htm</a><!-- m -->

Quote:32. And You indeed, O Lord, desirest that all should be healed, but all do not wish to be healed. Novatian wishes not, who thinks that he is whole. You, O Lord, sayest that You are sick, and feelest our infirmity in the least of us, saying: I was sick and you visited Me. Matthew 25:36 Novatian does not visit that least one in whom You desire to be visited. You said to Peter when he excused himself from having his feet washed by You: If I wash not your feet, you will have no part with Me. John 13:8 What fellowship, then, can they have with You, who receive not the keys of the kingdom of heaven, saying that they ought not to remit sins?

On the Holy Spirit (Ambrose) > Book III Chapter 17
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34023.htm">http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34023.htm</a><!-- m -->
Quote:123. The law of Your mouth, O Lord, is good unto me, I keep Your commandments. You have Yourself said that You are one with the Father. Because Peter believed this, he received the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and without anxiety for himself forgave sins. Judas, because he believed not this, strangled himself with the cord of his own wickedness.
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#22
Oh, I see. The acts were connected. By breathing the Spirit upon them, and allowing them to, "loose and bind sins", that was, as you quote, "the key of the kingdom of heaven." So he who has been relieved of all past sin dwells within this kingdom.

Now I take it that once the act of removing sin was performed by one of His apostles, that the individuals whose sins have been removed would then have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as well? The two things are not separate from one another, right? Sins can't be loosed all the while not receiving the Spirit?
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#23
Jesus Christ came preaching God-Conciousness. He is the Infinite Being of Light manifest in human form. If you look carefully through the World religions, you may find another such figure. When we meditate on the Passion of our Lord Jesus, what does it tell us?

Meditation is a HUGE PART of becoming God-Concious.
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#24
What I've been trying to figure out, TVB, is where the kingdom is. Meditation may very well bring forth God-consciousness, but Jesus instructs us to seek the kingdom first, which is exactly what I have been doing.

What you say, according to what Arkady has shown me, will not bring forth that kingdom. Meditation, day and night, without the loosing of sins by an apostle, as far as I have understood it, will not reveal His kingdom to us.

Having said that, I don't imply in the least that any form of meditation is useless, though let me ask you this: what exactly does meditation mean to you?

I personally know of three definitions - or at least three different outlooks:

1.) To "be still."

2.) To utter words to one's own self.

3.) To think.

Which method(s) is it that you're referring to?

Also, does anyone know which method(s) the Assyrian church adheres to?
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#25
Actually, thinking about it now, yea', some (non-Christians) do say that this "I" is the the Way to Life. They claim that "I" is consciousness - though they don't associate this "I-ness" with Jesus, so it seems a bit suspect to me.

Let me ask you guys this, though: Does the Holy Spirit have a name? When Jesus said, "I am the Way", seeing as how it's the, "Spirit who gives life" and that, "the flesh profits nothing", is it at -all- possible that when Jesus said "I", He wasn't referring to Himself, but rather it was the Spirit within Him that was speaking?

John 12:49-50::

For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

John 7:16-17:

16 Jesus answered, ?My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.

The Father's name is "I Am That I Am." Jesus never once called Himself "I Am That I Am", as that was a name the Father, and the Father only, which Jesus said was "greater than Him", held.

The Living Word has a name: Jesus

So what is the Spirit's name? Could it possibly be "I?" Not the false "I" (or ego) but the pathway into some (or all) form(s) of consciousness / Life / whatever you want to call it? I know this may sound ridiculous to some of you, so if you'd rather not touch on anything mentioned above, please just zero in on whether or not the Spirit has a name.

Thanks.
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#26
Seeker,

May I ask what your Christian and Church background is? And are you seeking to have a true relationship with God and His Son, by the power of their Holy Spirit? There are many man-made "paths" that seem to lead to God...But God says, through His Son, that there is only one way to God/The Father.

The Good News that God's Son proclamied is that by The Messiah's sacrifice, mankind is reconciled to God/The Father in a right relationship with Him. This forgivness is God's Gift and is recieved by Faith by God's Grace.

Blessings,
Chuck
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#27
Honestly, I have neither. Well, I suppose the former I do have, but I don't know the name. I haven't really ever been the type to harp on titles and what not - though I suppose it would make it much easier for others to know where I was coming from if I did. To answer your question, though...yes, I am most definitely seeking a relationship with God and His Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

At the same time, I just find it hard to completely dismiss other paths just because those who speak of such paths don't call themselves Christians, you know? I understand that it's a slippery slope I am taking, but I would hope that my earnest desire to find God and His kingdom would allow me to receive His Truth without veering too far off course. There is one bible and yet there are a million different interpretations - it's hard for me to conclude whole-hardheartedly that there isn't at least an ounce of Truth in these other "paths" that seem to be completely in-line with what Jesus was pointing to.
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#28
Thirdwoe Wrote:There are many man-made "paths" that seem to lead to God...But God says, through His Son, that there is only one way to God/The Father.

What I wonder is if that "One way" is limited to the Christian faith. For example, those who claim that "I" or "I Am" is the Way of Life without having mention of Jesus (though they do consistently quote Him) - can we conclude without error that what they say is untrue? Jesus said that "I am the way." Keyword: "I." So "I" is the "way" - which is what some of these so-called "enlightened" individuals claim. Whether or not there's any truth to it, I wouldn't know, but it's hard not to see the similarities and at least question the authenticity of what they say. Funny thing, too, is that the one guy I always listen to online, said that he received this "Life" by the laying-on of the hands - which, again, brings yet another similarity into the equation. Is it all there to cause confusion, or have they also tapped into the essence of what Jesus was truly trying to relay to us?

To me, at this point in my faith, it -seems- as if people are speaking about the same things, but I assume that the confusion comes into play when different names and titles and words are used. It's like if America called Sunday, Sunday and Europe called Sunday, Doorway, such a difference in names would cause a divide between groups, all the while no one realizing that they are all pointing to the same, exact Truth: the first day of the week. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but I'd be lying if I said that the similarities didn't intrigue me.
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#29
The Good News was proclaimed by Yeshua when he read from the Torah regarding prophecy of him. Yeshua came to free the fettered, to ignite a spark of grace and love within his Abba's Creation. Yeshua's Incarnation emptied hell. This is the Good News. Yeshua will reach you if you call out to him no matter how low you sink. Once we are on the Path though, we must not judge others faith/way of being. We grow in the kingdom by Works. Faith is only the beginning to a realization of the Christ within every human. We need to identify AS Christ. We are all part of his body.
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#30
Seeker,

I will show a few words here, from God, that tells us the Truth. If you have any questions on any or all of these, just ask.

"Yeshua (Jesus) said to him, ?I AM The Way and The Truth and The Life; no man comes to my Father but by me alone.? John 14:6

"All those who have come before are thieves and bandits, but the flock did not hear them" John 10:8

?Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by The Door, but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a bandit." John 10:1

"I AM The Door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

"And we know that The Son of God has come and He has given us understanding to know the True One and to be in The True One - in His Son, Yeshua The Messiah. This One is The True God and The Life Eternal." 1 John 5:20

"No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten of God who is in the bosom of The Father, He has declared Him.? John 1:18

?For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have Eternal Life." John 3:16

"Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John 3:18

"Whoever believes in the Son has Eternal Life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see Life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:36

"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him, shall have Eternal Life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40


Blessings,
Chuck
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