10-04-2011, 04:20 AM
Dave wrote:
Can we get that work done Dave...I would welcome it. I am not being disingeuous Dave...I really want to know if it can be proven...as far as I can tell, it hasent, and can't be, UNTIL EVERY Greek Manuscript has been checked for each of the readings.
I am basically calling you on your statement, because I know better, and don't want others to think that the case is closed.
Again you say "vast majority" as if most or more than 3/4 of the Greek Texts have been examined for the reading in Acts 20:28. That is simply not true Dave and I think you know it. But if you know something I don't know about it, then prove it, and I will say the same thing as you are.
Until I see it for myself, I wont just go on what you think might be the case.
Dave, Even though the Greek & Latin and other ancient language translations of various Greek source texts might show "the Church of God, which He purchased with His own blood" or the variants "the Church of the Lord & God" or "The Church of the Lord God" or simply "The Church of the Lord" ...whatever the scribes chose to copy in their copies of the texts they were copying....
We know that The Witness of Scripture ITSELF is clearly on the side of the Eastern Peshitta reading of Acts 20:28. "The Church of Christ, which He obtained by His own blood." As seen in these Aramaic Verses: Epesians 1:7-14, Hebrews 9:14, 1st Peter 1:18-19, 1st John 1:7 & Revelation 5:9 ALL of which show that it was THE MESSIAH, The LAMB of GOD, who shed His blood and made payment to GOD, for the sin debt we owed to God, His and our Father.
Yes, The Father paid dearly, by sending His Only Begotton Son into the world to save mankind, but it was not His personal blood that was shed, as The Father is not a human being, but His Son's personal human being blood which was shed, as The Messiah, The Lamb OF God, died for mankind, as a perfect Human Being, Spirit, Soul, and Body, who subjected Himself unto the death of the Cross, to redeem us to God, His and our Father...
Read all those verses there and see, from your own translation of the Western Peshitto Text...that it was The Christ/Messiah/Lamb of God, who shed His blood, and which is in perfect harmony with the Eatern Peshitta texts reading of Acts 20:28, which shows that it was the blood of Christ/Messiah, who shed His own blood.
Also, while were at it....the way in which you choose to translate both 1 Cor 8:6 and 1 Tim 2:5 shows your bias of interpretation based on your Theology and Christology, where the translation/interpretation is made to support it, rather than just be a straight translation of the Text with no interpretation...as seen in your Interlinear of the 1905 Text...where most of the time you give it straight, as is given in the Aramaic Text.
Here is how these two verse should have been translated, if we are going off just what is literally in the 1905 Aramaic Text.
1 Corinthians 8:6 Literal Translation: "But to us, ours is one Alaha, The Father, for all is from Him and we are in Him, and one Marya, Yeshua, the Messiah, for all is by Him and also we are in His hand."
But you have this interpretive translation: "To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand."
1 Timothy 2:5 Literal Translation: "For one is Alaha, and one is the mediator of Alaha and the sons of men, the Son of Man, Yeshua The Messiah,"
But you have this interpretive translation: "For God is One, and The Mediator of God and the sons of men is One: The Son of Man, Yeshua The Messiah."
Why do you do that Dave?
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Quote:This last statement is quite disingenuous, Chuck. You and I both rely on the Greek NT critical editions and their apparatuses to ascertain the majority readings and the relative numbers of Greek mss. for each reading. All Greek editions show that "Lord and God" or "Lord God" is in the vast majority of Greek mss. Both of those readings have "God" in them, so the majority of Greek mss. have "God" in them, in support of the Western Peshitta reading. Have you personally seen all the Peshitta mss. that contain the Eastern reading and all those that contain the Western reading at Acts 20:28? Of course not. So have you proved that the Eastern mss. all have the "Messiah" reading, by your own standard? No, of course not.
Can we get that work done Dave...I would welcome it. I am not being disingeuous Dave...I really want to know if it can be proven...as far as I can tell, it hasent, and can't be, UNTIL EVERY Greek Manuscript has been checked for each of the readings.
I am basically calling you on your statement, because I know better, and don't want others to think that the case is closed.
Again you say "vast majority" as if most or more than 3/4 of the Greek Texts have been examined for the reading in Acts 20:28. That is simply not true Dave and I think you know it. But if you know something I don't know about it, then prove it, and I will say the same thing as you are.
Until I see it for myself, I wont just go on what you think might be the case.
Dave, Even though the Greek & Latin and other ancient language translations of various Greek source texts might show "the Church of God, which He purchased with His own blood" or the variants "the Church of the Lord & God" or "The Church of the Lord God" or simply "The Church of the Lord" ...whatever the scribes chose to copy in their copies of the texts they were copying....
We know that The Witness of Scripture ITSELF is clearly on the side of the Eastern Peshitta reading of Acts 20:28. "The Church of Christ, which He obtained by His own blood." As seen in these Aramaic Verses: Epesians 1:7-14, Hebrews 9:14, 1st Peter 1:18-19, 1st John 1:7 & Revelation 5:9 ALL of which show that it was THE MESSIAH, The LAMB of GOD, who shed His blood and made payment to GOD, for the sin debt we owed to God, His and our Father.
Yes, The Father paid dearly, by sending His Only Begotton Son into the world to save mankind, but it was not His personal blood that was shed, as The Father is not a human being, but His Son's personal human being blood which was shed, as The Messiah, The Lamb OF God, died for mankind, as a perfect Human Being, Spirit, Soul, and Body, who subjected Himself unto the death of the Cross, to redeem us to God, His and our Father...
Read all those verses there and see, from your own translation of the Western Peshitto Text...that it was The Christ/Messiah/Lamb of God, who shed His blood, and which is in perfect harmony with the Eatern Peshitta texts reading of Acts 20:28, which shows that it was the blood of Christ/Messiah, who shed His own blood.
Also, while were at it....the way in which you choose to translate both 1 Cor 8:6 and 1 Tim 2:5 shows your bias of interpretation based on your Theology and Christology, where the translation/interpretation is made to support it, rather than just be a straight translation of the Text with no interpretation...as seen in your Interlinear of the 1905 Text...where most of the time you give it straight, as is given in the Aramaic Text.
Here is how these two verse should have been translated, if we are going off just what is literally in the 1905 Aramaic Text.
1 Corinthians 8:6 Literal Translation: "But to us, ours is one Alaha, The Father, for all is from Him and we are in Him, and one Marya, Yeshua, the Messiah, for all is by Him and also we are in His hand."
But you have this interpretive translation: "To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand."
1 Timothy 2:5 Literal Translation: "For one is Alaha, and one is the mediator of Alaha and the sons of men, the Son of Man, Yeshua The Messiah,"
But you have this interpretive translation: "For God is One, and The Mediator of God and the sons of men is One: The Son of Man, Yeshua The Messiah."
Why do you do that Dave?
..