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Prophet Muhammad, the "Paraclete"
#1
Muslims claim that their 'prophet' is the paraclete. Now, when we read the Gospel of John it is clear that he was not speaking of a prophet who would come after him. Jesus came and did what he did - job done!

According to Muslim 'scholars', parakletos was originally perikytos, meaning 'the praised one', which is the meaning of Ahmad - a variant of Muhammad. They claim that Christians "changed and corrupted the gospels" and the person who had the original version was a monk named Bahira who also 'foretold' Muhammad's prophethood according to Islamic tradition.

Now I am interested to find out what Paraclete / paracytia really means in Aramaic. I read on this site that it means the 'ending the curse' according to our friend, Mr. Younan.

Also, what would be the Aramaic equivalent of Ahmad / Periklytos? (Please provide transliteration and the word in Aramaic/Syriac script if possible.)

Thanks!!

Peace.
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#2
anthea26 Wrote:According to Muslim 'scholars', parakletos was originally perikytos, meaning 'the praised one',

What is the basis for saying this?
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#3
judge Wrote:What is the basis for saying this?
anthea26 Wrote:They claim that Christians "changed and corrupted the gospels" and the person who had the original version was a monk named Bahira who also 'foretold' Muhammad's prophethood according to Islamic tradition.

Sounds like a case of the "lost original." It's an easy way to support a corruption of the text: by claiming a hypothetical ancestor document with a certain reading. Who needs textual evidence when we have hearsay?

Didn't the scribes of Hebrew Matthew also claim that they were copying old texts... ones that are now "lost?"
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#4
Quote:Sounds like a case of the "lost original." It's an easy way to support a corruption of the text: by claiming a hypothetical ancestor document with a certain reading. Who needs textual evidence when we have hearsay?

Didn't the scribes of Hebrew Matthew also claim that they were copying old texts... ones that are now "lost?"

I think so [Hebrew Matthew].

Quote:What is the basis for saying this?

They grasp at straws. There are other supposed prophecies of Muhammad in he Bible, but often they do not fit in the context. And anyway, f Muhammad is the last prophet who is 'greater than Jesus' then surely there would be as many and as detailed prophecies about him.

Unfortunately, many ignorant Christians fall for this deception and become proselytes to Islam.
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#5
anthea26 Wrote:Muslims claim that their 'prophet' is the paraclete. Now, when we read the Gospel of John it is clear that he was not speaking of a prophet who would come after him. Jesus came and did what he did - job done!

(Please provide transliteration and the word in Aramaic/Syriac script if possible.)

Thanks!!

Peace.


The oldest Peshitta, written long before the first book called quran, has this; Paraq+Qlayta
This means deliverer of the curse, according to Bauscher.
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#6
A good book, is 'the torn veil' the story of sister Gulshan Ester, a muslim lady who become a christian.
I have read that muhammad was a catholic to begin with, how did he become sidetracked?
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#7
sean Wrote:A good book, is 'the torn veil' the story of sister Gulshan Ester, a muslim lady who become a christian.
I have read that muhammad was a catholic to begin with, how did he become sidetracked?
He was not catholic, but was influenced by catholics, as they supposedly saw islam as a useful tool to conquer israel (they didn't know he'd turn on them), and i think it was his uncle who was catholic.
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#8
distazo Wrote:The oldest Peshitta, written long before the first book called quran, has this; Paraq+Qlayta
This means deliverer of the curse, according to Bauscher.
Is Bauscher saying it is of aramaic origin, and not greek? Seems really off to me. Is he saying the Holy Spirit is delivering a curse to us?
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#9
The term 'deliver' here means less 'deliver unto' than 'deliver from.'
paraq is given as this in SEDRA: depart, deliver, save, rescue, pursue, go away, abstain
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#10
What moslems do with the Bible.

If something sounds like muhammed, they say it IS muhammed.
Song of Songs 5:16. This is my beloved, and this is my friends oh daughters of Jerusalem.

'My beloved' sounds like muhammed. (machmadim) and especially in the Aramaic Peshitta, which I don't have ready here.

Well, if that IS the case, then HABIB must be a prophet too! <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
Luke 9:35.
This is my beloved son... 'my beloved' = habiba.

So this is they way they try to read INTO a text what simply is wishfull thinking into Arabic <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

And yes, some words are not really Greek origin but Aramaic, e.g. Barbarian, is ARamaic (Bar-Baria) 'Son of the outside'
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#11
The word you're referencing is translated 'lovely' right before 'This is my beloved.' And I find it closer to Mahmud in the Hebrew text... I don't see what you see in the Aramaic text. Rather than saying "he is altogether lovely" it says "his garments are lovely," which is manauhi r'gigin.
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#12
Aaron S Wrote:The word you're referencing is translated 'lovely' right before 'This is my beloved.' And I find it closer to Mahmud in the Hebrew text... I don't see what you see in the Aramaic text. Rather than saying "he is altogether lovely" it says "his garments are lovely," which is manauhi r'gigin.
Ma©hmud is mohammad. So what? Who cares.
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#13
distazo Wrote:
anthea26 Wrote:Muslims claim that their 'prophet' is the paraclete. Now, when we read the Gospel of John it is clear that he was not speaking of a prophet who would come after him. Jesus came and did what he did - job done!

(Please provide transliteration and the word in Aramaic/Syriac script if possible.)

Thanks!!

Peace.


The oldest Peshitta, written long before the first book called quran, has this; Paraq+Qlayta
This means deliverer of the curse, according to Bauscher.


Shlama,


while i'm all for the Peshitta bringing clarity to the Greek understanding, the Greek idea of PARAKLETOS was well-known to the Hebrew mind. you can find it in the Talmud, even, and the targum to Job, etc.. the sin offerings that were offered daily are even called PARACLETES. i can share the actual references if you'd be interested.

so i am inclined to believe that what the Peshitta preserved was a wonderful instance of a bilingual wordplay, where a term that sounded almost exactly the same in two languages, but with two very different meanings, fit the text perfectly. i really don't think advocating (no pun intended, seriously) for one term or the other is of any benefit to anyone, because if you take the stance that the Peshitta is involved in a bilingual wordplay, than THAT is FAR more significant to the case of establishing primacy than to say that the Greek term was actually a mistranslation of the Aramaic. i say this because the HEBREW TN"K has instances of bilingual wordplays (i could share these, as well), and nobody is contesting the primacy of the Hebrew in those instances. so if the same were to be pushed on the Peshitta Primacy side of things, then it is all the more in favor of the validity of our arguments.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#14
Burning one Wrote:so i am inclined to believe that what the Peshitta preserved was a wonderful instance of a bilingual wordplay, where a term that sounded almost exactly the same in two languages, but with two very different meanings, fit the text perfectly. Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Good point. I think that Acts 9:34 has a bilingual (Eneas, Anyas) wordplay as well, so this does not surprise me at all. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
Yes, share them please!
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#15
So what would be the Aramaic equivalent of Ahmad?
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