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Let's talk... sex? [18+]
#1
OK. 1 question. <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->

Can we masturbate? <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: -->

Some reports claim 95% males and 89% females masturbate.

I always wonder:

The ancient people were so conservative that modern sex education was not possible in Judaism.

So how do Jewish couples know to make love? I mean... they really know the process and pick the right place?

Am I right? Or... did I miss something from the Bible?


(I know your question. OK. I'm sorry. I do.)
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#2
The Tanach and the NT are quite modern and open compared to ancient tradition.

There is only one religion with roots in India, that spends whole explicit chapters on how to love your woman.

My favorite text <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
1 Corintians 7:5

b.t.w. I always wonder why some christians do expect to have some laws for anything? Is our sound mind given by God not enough for us to judge whether or not to 'modern' free speach standards if something is 'allowed' or not?
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#3
Good.

But I'm single. And I'm still 18....

Or I should ask: What's wrong with masturbation?
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#4
Havah Wrote:Good.

But I'm single. And I'm still 18....

Or I should ask: What's wrong with masturbation?
Lusting is the problem. If you could do it without lusting, i guess it'd be fine. Remember, you can commit fornication with your thoughts. Also, don't believe statistics just like that. My guess would be that most believing people feel bad masturbating, but do it anyways. If you ask me, one should either not do it, or not feel bad. If it is a habit and one cannot stop doing it, it is certainly bad, Christians should not have any kind of addiction.

About the how-to of sex: No one needs a manual for that, i'd say it's heavily instinct based (Plus, assuming an ancient environment, even here one would hear ppl talk about it, at least the nasty kids, right? Plus, there was less privacy (no locked doors in a regular house), and if all else fails, people took care of animals that had similar forms of intercourse all the time. They had to know at least something about that to properly take care of the animals, right?). There are enough people, even today, that never saw sex until their wedding night, or their first time of extramarital intercourse.

On a biblical perspective: Paul has written about the downsides of marriage a bit, yet after trying to say it is better to remain single, he said:
1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1Co 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
If we understand "burning" to be a reference to sexual desire, Paul, in my opinion, would have made sure to mention other ways of taking care of that, if there were such ways. After all, he recommended to stay single. If masturbating would be fine, he should have said "you can always take care of yourself, you don't need fornication and devouring desire". But he didn't.

In my opinion, as long as one doesn't start masturbating, one will not feel the drive to do so as strong as one that was compelled to do so. If one could draw an analogy with drugs, heroine can be addictive from the first usage on. Withdrawal will result in many physical symptoms that seem to be destructive. After a very short period of time, one will be so addicted that normal daily life requires aconstant dosage of the drug. A doctor that does not know how destructive the grug is will recommend his patient to take a dose daily to keep his body's chemistry balanced. Yet, that does not make it good.
Same with masturbation.

i guess i will be criticised by this statement, but in my opinion, if one has addictive problems with masturbation, but would like to stop, the first thing to do is realize that God understands the situation of addicts of anything. This is covered by the blood and grace will take care of it (as long as the addiction is the driving element, and not free will). That means, one should stop feeling bad as to not give the devil room to grow. Still, most serious repentance should be ones lifestyle.
The second thing is to attempt to seperate masturbation from lust (only possible to a certain degree) as to attempt to untune the complementary elements of masturbation and lust. There are two fights to be fought here, and one has to figue out which one can be fought first (lust i guess).
Third, one should continuoulsy strenghten his own will through faith in Christ until one can overcome the addiction. Being aware of the past and present is necessary so one can keep track of the development.
All this is best done with a person that had a similar problem, but has it no more.

Just some thoughts.
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#5
Havah Wrote:The ancient people were so conservative

How do you know?
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#6
the bible saids we should keep ourselves pure, our bodies pure ' that everyone one of you should know how to keep his body in sanctification and honour' 1 thes 4-3.
There was a man in the old testament that let his seed spill onto the ground and god got upset with him, I think it was obed. Man's seed is sacred to God,like his blood and body. God has not changed He is holy, and He wants us ot be holy 'be holy as I am holy ' 1 peter 1-16.
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#7
The man was Onan (B'reishith 38). And though I agree with your conclusion, I don't agree with this interpretation of the text. The reason apparent from the text is that Onan's deed was accounted as evil because he wouldn't raise up seed to his brother; a command later given in Torah.
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#8
hi Aaron, thanks for the correction, about the name Onan.
what I am trying to say is, if God got upset with Onan for spilling his seed on the ground when he was sleeping with a woman, his brothers wife, then God will get upset with men who spill their seed on purpose. Who do it alone, and not when they are with their wives !
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#9
I have to agree with Sean on this one. Common sense and the Holy Spirit would make it clear to most people what God designed the body for and that going contrary to His design would be a sin. This includes oral and anal sex as well as fornication, masturbation, pornography, fantasising about people who are not your partner and contraception. I once had an argument on a Christian message board about oral sex; all the other members used references from Song of Songs to back up their theory that it is perfectly moral and okay, while calling me every other name permitted by the moderators. I gave up trying to reason with them. Then just recently, medical science discovered that oral sex can lead to throat cancer in women (and gay men) because of a microbe that lives on the genitalia that should not be present in the mouth. This is a confirmation of God's disapproval of the practice, just like AIDS was a confirmation of His disapproval of sodomy. You see couples engaging in oral sex, women on the Pill for years and later down the track you hear of them suffering miscarriages and developing breast cancer. Of course those practising these activities will never acknowledge the causal relationship.
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#10
Alita Wrote:Then just recently, medical science discovered that oral sex can lead to throat cancer in women (and gay men) because of a microbe that lives on the genitalia that should not be present in the mouth. This is a confirmation of God's disapproval of the practice, just like AIDS was a confirmation of His disapproval of sodomy. You see couples engaging in oral sex, women on the Pill for years and later down the track you hear of them suffering miscarriages and developing breast cancer.
So the common cold is God's sign of disapproval for public transport, right? And am i to assume that God does not disapprove of eating pork anymore, as scientists are now able to tell which pig has sicknesses that are fatal for humans? Or did humans outsmart God? Maybe God hates all that stuff, but he doesn't give "confirmations" (other than by his Word and through his people). Either he lets nature, selection and enthropy take their ways, of he brings judgement, which is swift and final, as it was with Noah's contemporaries, Sodom, Gomorrah, Korah and many others (maybe even some of the fornicators). There is a judgement day coming, but sinners should wish they just had AIDS when that time comes around.

i am highly and genuinely interested, thouh, why you regard oral intercourse (i mean within a marriage) and using the pill (or all contraceptives?, again within a marriage) as immorality/abomination/...? Is there any biblical basis for this?
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#11
I also had the same questions long ago. I still don't have all of the answers though. I think that the Scriptures are silent on the matter because it is relative to the intentions and conscience of the individual.

To keep the debate going however, I'd like to ask, how does man lie with mankind as with a woman? (Lev 20)
That is physically impossible in the proper sense unless there is more than one way to lie with a woman.
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#12
noordos Wrote:That is physically impossible in the proper sense unless there is more than one way to lie with a woman.
Good point. Excellent thinking. i'll store this under the "bible->sexuality->marital intercourse->other forms of intercourse" section of my memory.

Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
i always thought this tells me whatever they do in their bed it alright.

i gues the actual question is if alternative forms of intercourse within a marriage are considered fornication. i believe it is a cultural/social/personal issue.
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#13
It is scary not really knowing what is right and wrong in relation to this issue, I mean there is nothing in scriptures that remotely considers it.
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#14
I've learnt in Biology lesson that HPV virus commonly found in male genitals is the major cause of cervical cancer. Female genitals can defend this only when they've reached 18, when the defense mechanism inside female sexual organs can act against HPV.
As we know, anal sex is abominable according to the Bible. Although I couldn't find female performing oral sex to their husband abominable, this practice should not be frequent.

But wet-dreaming is tolerated in the Torah.

Some people told me "adultery" in Hebrew means having another relationship outside the marriage. So... <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh -->
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