01-30-2011, 05:20 PM
Thank you Stephen for your reply... I don't think I have used "my" logic here but followed what the scriptures say...
I did not say that Mishley 8 was about YAHUshuah being "brought forth without first finding the equivalent scriptures to back it up...
In Yahuchanan you find that YAHUshuah says...
Yahuchanan 17
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Here you have YAHUshuah {with} The CREATOR before the world were formed...
Compare to Mishley 8
22YHWH possessed Me in the beginning of HIS way, before HIS works of old. 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26While as yet HE had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27When HE prepared the heavens, I was there: when HE set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28When HE established the clouds above: when HE strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29When HE gave to the sea HIS decree, that the waters should not pass HIS commandment: when HE appointed the foundations of the earth: 30Then I was by HIM, as one brought up with HIM: and I was daily HIS delight, rejoicing always before HIM;
Here in the above you have the same as in Yahuchanan 17:5 but in greater detail...
I also understand your statement that Mishley is speaking merely of "wisdom" however, in the Beriyth Chadashah you find this...
Corintyah Aleph
30But of HIM are you in YAHUshuah ha MASHIACh, who of ELOHIYM is made unto us {WISDOM}, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (emphasis on wisdom mine)...
In Luqa 11 you find the "wisdom" of ELOHIYM again...
49Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
So YAHushauh is indeed the "wisdom", the righteousness, the sanctification and the redemption... that YHWH "made" Him to be for us and it is told of first in Mishley 8
Of course we can argue the validity of made, created and brought forth and never really agree that they mean the same thing and that is quite ok with me as I understand that each of us looks at words and their usages differently...
My question as it were is not about any of those things however, but merely how YAHUshuah could gain "favour" (or whatever word is placed here as some have argued that another word could be used) with YHWH if He was YHWH... The rest was added to the question without ever actually answering the question...
That is really the only question I have...
Thanks...
justalex
I did not say that Mishley 8 was about YAHUshuah being "brought forth without first finding the equivalent scriptures to back it up...
In Yahuchanan you find that YAHUshuah says...
Yahuchanan 17
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Here you have YAHUshuah {with} The CREATOR before the world were formed...
Compare to Mishley 8
22YHWH possessed Me in the beginning of HIS way, before HIS works of old. 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26While as yet HE had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27When HE prepared the heavens, I was there: when HE set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28When HE established the clouds above: when HE strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29When HE gave to the sea HIS decree, that the waters should not pass HIS commandment: when HE appointed the foundations of the earth: 30Then I was by HIM, as one brought up with HIM: and I was daily HIS delight, rejoicing always before HIM;
Here in the above you have the same as in Yahuchanan 17:5 but in greater detail...
I also understand your statement that Mishley is speaking merely of "wisdom" however, in the Beriyth Chadashah you find this...
Corintyah Aleph
30But of HIM are you in YAHUshuah ha MASHIACh, who of ELOHIYM is made unto us {WISDOM}, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (emphasis on wisdom mine)...
In Luqa 11 you find the "wisdom" of ELOHIYM again...
49Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
So YAHushauh is indeed the "wisdom", the righteousness, the sanctification and the redemption... that YHWH "made" Him to be for us and it is told of first in Mishley 8
Of course we can argue the validity of made, created and brought forth and never really agree that they mean the same thing and that is quite ok with me as I understand that each of us looks at words and their usages differently...
My question as it were is not about any of those things however, but merely how YAHUshuah could gain "favour" (or whatever word is placed here as some have argued that another word could be used) with YHWH if He was YHWH... The rest was added to the question without ever actually answering the question...
That is really the only question I have...
Thanks...
justalex