01-30-2011, 11:46 AM
justalex Wrote:distazo Wrote:justalex Wrote:That's a good point Distazo... YAHUshauh was created first and you can find that also in Mishley 8 where He was "brought forth" by YHWH before the foundations of the world were made... (this is also shown in Yahuchanan 17:5)... However I cannot agree with your point that since He was created or firstborn that it makes Him ELOHIYM... as that is not proven in scripture... I was reading Luqa where it goes through the geneaologies and at the end it says that Adam was the "son of ELOHIYM" also... your assertion would have to include Adam as ELOHIYM since Adam was ELOHIYM's son as well wouldn't it??? (Scratching my head... lol)... ok guys this is a little deeper than I intended but hey, I love learning, LOL...
Thanks,
justalex
It's plainly said in the bible.
And it's quite logical as well.
John 1:1
Colossians 2:9
But if Yeshu is firstborn of God and ALL other things were created by him, we got a point.
It is no heresy or polytheism to claim that God, the almighty is a spirit, The God and his direct creating (agree?) a god as well.
God (Alaha, Elohim) is _just_ <!-- s--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="
You are human, and your children will be human.
God is a spirit, and wont his first spiritual creating, called the firstborn, not be a spirit like God?
And now a smashing <!-- s--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="
John 1:18. (Peshitta _only_!)
Murdock "No man hath ever seen God; the only begotten God, he who is in the bosom of his Father, he hath declared [him]."
So, we have at least TWO Gods here.
John 10:34 even speaks about -gods-.
At least TWO g-ds??? That my friend would put you in the realm of paganism and any Ibriy that had ANYTHING to do with the SEFER Ha ChAYIM would whole-heartedly disagree with that...
Actually it is neither plain nor logical in either as if you take Yahuchanan 1:1 to mean that The Son and The FATHER are the same (or even two g-ds)it is contradictory to Yahuchanan 17:5 where YAHUshuah says he was "with" YHWH before the creation of the world not that He "was" YHWH... along with other scriptures that I will post if necessary... Also, Yahuchanan 10:34 is speaking of man being "g-ds" and is taken from TEHILLUM 82:6 and NOT your errant "two" god theory...
Thanks...
ShEMA YISRAEL YHWH ELOHEYNU YHWH | EChAD
justalex
Shlama Akhi Alex:
I've been reading your posts and find error in your logic. It is the second law of Hillel (equivalence of expression) that can often cause error if English in some way stands between Hebrew and its English equivalence. To equate "man was created by Elohim" with "man was made by Elohim is a true equivalence of expression. They are written to remove ambiguity and make plain that Elohim is Creator of man and "made" and "created" are truly equivalent expressions. Nevertheless, it is not the same thing in Proverbs 8:24, 25 and 30, to say , "Jesus was not created by YHVH", he was "brought forth" not "created". Brought forth=as one calls upon. First, the Proverb is speaking about Wisdom, and it is an assumption that Wisdom is Jesus in this use. Rather Wisdom on this plane and of this calibre is the superior attribute of both Father and Son and is the realm of the Holy Spirit. If there was no creation yet, then only Elohim existed at this time. So Godly Wisdom, as a truly living attribute of Elohim is as it were, "nishmat ruakh khayim", as in Genesis 2:7. This Wisdom was, as it were, added to the nefesh ruakh khayim of Adam. So the WORD or Breath of Elohim dwelt in Adam and is confirmed by Jeremiah in the verse, "it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps". Also in the commandment, "man shall not live by bread alone but by everything which proceeds from the mouth of Elohim. Jesus is the incarnate WORD of Elohim and also in the Gospel of John it is written, "that was the true light which lighs every man which comes into the world. This is referring to "nishmat ruakh khayim", or "the Breath of Elohim".
Moreover, in Luke 3:38 the Aramaic reads, "Adam, who was from Elohim. It does not say that Adam was the son of Elohim, but that Adam was from Elohim. Specifically, Adam was created with the land animals on the sixth day. As a matter of fact, Adam without nishmat ruakh khayim is as the living creatures, all of which are called nefesh khayia, but never nefesh ruakh chayia. Now, it's important at this time to note the difference between the Aramaic and the Greek, from which we have the KJV, The KJV is compiled from several Greek manuscripts and the Hebrew is incorrectly translated as you can see for yourself.
Let's stop here and allow you and others to respond to what I have written, and then we can go on.
Shlama,
Stephen Silver,
Dukhrana Biblical Research,
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->
Quote:YAHUshauh was created first and you can find that also in Mishley 8 where He was "brought forth" by YHWH before the foundations of the world were made... (this is also shown in Yahuchanan 17:5)... However I cannot agree with your point that since He was created or firstborn that it makes Him ELOHIYM... as that is not proven in scripture... I was reading Luqa where it goes through the geneaologies and at the end it says that Adam was the "son of ELOHIYM" also... your assertion would have to include Adam as ELOHIYM since Adam was ELOHIYM's son as well wouldn't it??? (Scratching my head... lol)... ok guys this is a little deeper than I intended but hey, I love learning, LOL...