The Missing Passover

[Dawid]

Fascinating thought, but it is not true that no one would ever celebrate on a different date. Essenes had their own calendar and determined Pesach at an entirely different time. Unless, of course, the Dead Sea Scrolls are a hoax like the Hazon Gavriel

[Dawid]

Fascinating thought, but it is not true that no one would ever celebrate on a different date. Essenes had their own calendar and determined Pesach at an entirely different time. Unless, of course, the Dead Sea Scrolls are a hoax like the Hazon Gavriel

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It does not occur to me that the Essenes would celebrate Pesach on a different day from the 14th of Nisan. I can grant that they might have had a different calendar, but not to overrule the festivals. Perhaps for other purposes of internal government. And even if they had Pesach in an entirely different time, it must have been some time after the 14th of Nisan,
which anyone was authorized by Torah legislation. (Num. 9:10-12)

I didn't say they didn't celebrate it on the 14th of Nisan. I said they had their own calendar. They celebrated Passover on the 14th of Nisan, but they had a different 14th of Nisan.

[Dawid]

Actually, if you read the calendrical documents from among the Dead Sea Scrolls you will see for yourself that not all Jews used the same calendar. I'm afraid you are incorrect in saying that the calendar is the calendar. That is simply not true.

[Dawid]

Actually, if you read the calendrical documents from among the Dead Sea Scrolls you will see for yourself that not all Jews used the same calendar. I'm afraid you are incorrect in saying that the calendar is the calendar. That is simply not true.

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You have all the right in the world to think whatever you want, but you cannot teach Judaism to the Jew. The Essenes were Jewish, and even if they used a different calendar, they would never celebrate Passover before the 14th of Nisan, which would fall on the same day for all Jews.

You crack me up, Ben.

[Dawid]

Keep telling yourself that. ;-)

[Dawid]

Oh, and by the way, it would be entirely possible for the Qumranic Passover to come before the Passover celebrated by the rest of Judaism, since the 4Q325 and 4Q321 indicate that they were using a 364 day solar calendar, not a lunar calendar.
We can see even more calendrical diversity in second temple period Judaism if we look at the thoughts of Philo and the books of Enoch.

[Dawid]

Oh, and by the way, it would be entirely possible for the Qumranic Passover to come before the Passover celebrated by the rest of Judaism, since the 4Q325 and 4Q321 indicate that they were using a 364 day solar calendar, not a lunar calendar.
We can see even more calendrical diversity in second temple period Judaism if we look at the thoughts of Philo and the books of Enoch.

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The Essenes were Jewish and respectfully acknowledged as such during the second temple period Judaism. You are getting too hypothetical here with "it could be possible."

Wow. Seriously? This is ridiculous. I can tell you that it must have happened more than once in history that the Essene Passover came before the one of the rest of Judaism. It's mathematically impossible for it to have always come afterwards. You're really reaching now.

[Dawid]

The Essenes were celebrating it on the 14th and 15th like everyone else, but they calculated the beginning of Nisan differently. They used the equinox to determine the beginning of the year, rather than agricultural indicators.

[Dawid]

The Essenes were celebrating it on the 14th and 15th like everyone else, but they calculated the beginning of Nisan differently. They used the equinox to determine the beginning of the year, rather than agricultural indicators.

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Josephus would have mentioned this about the Essenes, whom he was very particular about. There is nothing in the Talmud about this either as the Essenes were concerned.

They don't, but the Dead Sea Scrolls do tell us about it. Philo also refers to this system.

[Dawid]

They celebrated it on the 14th. However, they calculated the 14th differently than the Sages did.

[jborean]

Based on my findings and the work of many others I am currious to know what year the preparation day (the 14th of Nissan) occured on Wednesday... I have yet to really have anyone state absolutley the accuracy of matching up the calendar without at least a days uncertainty.

I believe that the Passover was not on the weekly Sabbath but on the Wednesday prior. Which would allow for the following chronology:

Jesus' Death Wed at the appointed hour of the slaughter of the Passover Lamb.
Jesus' Burial Wed Night (1 Day and Night)
Thur Day till Friday Day (2nd Day and Night)
Weekly Sabbath Friday Night till Saturday Day (3rd Day and Night... as required by the Law to complete the law and be considered actually dead and to of course also fullfill the prophecy in comparison to Jonah)
Jesus' ressurection after Saturday sundown and before Sunday sunrise

[Dawid]

The Essenes were celebrating it on the 14th and 15th like everyone else, but they calculated the beginning of Nisan differently. They used the equinox to determine the beginning of the year, rather than agricultural indicators.

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You have lost track of your discussions. You are arguing without common sense.
Ben

That isn't an argument, and it doesn't even make sense.

[Dawid]

You're a funny man.