09-11-2009, 12:24 PM
Shlama Akhi Dawid,
"There are so many more possibilities." ?
How many possibilities are there? Chinese, Hindi, Latin, Parsi, Arabic, Ethiopic, Sanscrit, Egyptian, Ugaritic?
Seriously, David, if there were an original Hebrew NT, it has not been known to exist for as long as we have any historical record or manuscripts.
The only possible viable candidates for the original are Greek and Aramaic, as they both exist. I know you believe the NT is Divine scripture.
It makes no sense that the Tanak would be preserved and the NT entirely destroyed; it makes no sense religiously, historically or theologically.
A medieval and corrupt Hebrew Matthew cannot be a stand-in for the original NT.
The Peshitta distinguishes the southern Judean Aramaic from the northern and Syrian Aramaic with the word, "Hebrayth" -"Hebrew". The written scripts differed as well as the pronunciations, as the Ashuri of Daniel's Aramaic of chapters 2-7 differs from the Estrangela of the oldest Peshitta mss. extant. Acts 1:19 establishes that the language (one language, not two or more) of Jerusalem was Aramaic. "Khaqeldama" is Aramaic; the Greek text transliterates it "Akeldama". Hebrew does not have a word, "Khaqel"; Modern Hebrew does have noun variations, including "khaqelayoth"- "farming???, but that is apparently an Aramaicized form; Biblical Hebrew has no such word. "Field" in Hebrew is "Sadeh" or "Shedamah"; "dma" is the Aramaic for "blood". Acts 1:19 in the Greek tells us that "Akeldama" represents the language
of Jerusalem and the region- clearly an Aramaic compound word.
But let's suppose for the sake of argument that Hebrew proper was the language to which Luke referred. That would mean the Jews spoke Hebrew and only Hebrew, as only one language is predicated of the residents of the region of Judea in Acts 1:19. Aramaic would not have been commonly spoken in that case.
But history tells a different story. The Jews had Hebrew scrolls read in their synagogues on the Sabbath; then after the reading of the Hebrew, a Targum was read, because the people did not understand Hebrew. This practice started at Babylon after the Jewish captivity. The Targums are evidence that in Babylon and in Palestine, the common language of the Jews was not Hebrew and was in fact, Aramaic.More powerful historical evidence is provided by Josephus, who wrote that "he composed" his Jewish Wars "in the language of his country and sent them also to the upper Barbarians."
Whiston???s note on the ???upper Barbarians???: Who these Upper Barbarians, remote from the sea, were, Josephus himself will inform us, sect.
2, viz. the Parthians and Babylonians, and remotest Arabians [of the Jews among them]; besides the Jews beyond Euphrates, and the Adiabeni, or Assyrians.
Whence we also learn that these Parthians, Babylonians, the remotest Arabians, [or at least the Jews among them,] as also the Jews beyond Euphrates, and the
Adiabeni, or Assyrians, understood Josephus's Hebrew, or rather Chaldaic, books of The Jewish War, before they were put into the Greek language.
"Chaldaic" is an old term for Aramaic, though often referred to as "Hebrew", as here by Whiston, the translator of Josephus' works in Greek. Josephus composed his works in Aramaic. The Assyrians and Parthians and Babylonians would have been able to read Aramaic, but not Hebrew. He also says he translated his works into Greek for the Romans.
Internal Biblical and historical evidence confirms the position that the Jews of the 2nd Temple period, and certainly of the 1st century AD, spoke, read and wrote Aramaic as their national language.
Alfred Edersheim wrote that ???the language spoken by the Hebrews was no longer Hebrew, but Aramaean, both in Palestine and in Babylonia; in the former the Western, in the latter the Eastern dialect. In fact, the common people were ignorant of pure Hebrew, which henceforth became the language of the student and of the Synagogue.??? -p. 10, The Life and Times of Jesus The Messiah
Hebrew would have been reserved for Rabbinical school exercizes and for the scribes who copied the Hebrew scrolls for the synagogues. Students might learn Hebrew in a classroom setting, but that would be a far cry from making it their native language, even as a Seminary student learning Greek, Hebrew or Latin will hardly ever make those his or her spoken language. How many Jewish kids who go to Hebrew school in the U.S. speak Hebrew in everyday conversation at home? Most likely, they speak English at home.
As for the Hebrew letters found from the post AD 70 period, I would say that the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple changed everything for the generations following. The former traditions and the national spirit were radically altered and compromised, and understandably so. Even the prospect of the Temple???s destruction was seen by Peter, James and John as ???the end of the world???, as per Matthew 24:1-3; imagine the effect the actual destruction had upon the people of Israel at the time and upon their children. Perhaps they attempted to revive their pre-Babylonian Hebrew as a spoken tongue, to counter the effect of Gentile oppression and tyranny. It would be a major error to cite post Temple practices and documents as evidence to establish customs and traditions for pre AD 70 Israel. They were two different worlds entirely!
I have said nothing of the hundreds of internal Greek readings which are demonstrably translated from Peshitta readings, from Matthew to Revelation, and the fact that the Greek NT declares itself to be a translation of Aramaic in six places of the Gospels and Acts. I have shown this in notes for John 1:38-42 & elsewhere.
"But lies have winged feet; truth plods alongside the snail."
Therefore we must brush away the fast and furious locust-like cloud of lies to see and think clearly as we search for the truth. Perhaps it is already before us,at our feet; if not, we must be patient.
If the NT was written in Hebrew, where's the beef? Show us the manuscripts.Show us Hebrew mss. of 4 Gospels, or of any NT epistles.
Nrben al ylmw Nwrben aeraw ayms Lu 21:33
"Heaven and earth will pass away; my words will never pass away."
Blessings,
Dave Bauscher
"There are so many more possibilities." ?
How many possibilities are there? Chinese, Hindi, Latin, Parsi, Arabic, Ethiopic, Sanscrit, Egyptian, Ugaritic?
Seriously, David, if there were an original Hebrew NT, it has not been known to exist for as long as we have any historical record or manuscripts.
The only possible viable candidates for the original are Greek and Aramaic, as they both exist. I know you believe the NT is Divine scripture.
It makes no sense that the Tanak would be preserved and the NT entirely destroyed; it makes no sense religiously, historically or theologically.
A medieval and corrupt Hebrew Matthew cannot be a stand-in for the original NT.
The Peshitta distinguishes the southern Judean Aramaic from the northern and Syrian Aramaic with the word, "Hebrayth" -"Hebrew". The written scripts differed as well as the pronunciations, as the Ashuri of Daniel's Aramaic of chapters 2-7 differs from the Estrangela of the oldest Peshitta mss. extant. Acts 1:19 establishes that the language (one language, not two or more) of Jerusalem was Aramaic. "Khaqeldama" is Aramaic; the Greek text transliterates it "Akeldama". Hebrew does not have a word, "Khaqel"; Modern Hebrew does have noun variations, including "khaqelayoth"- "farming???, but that is apparently an Aramaicized form; Biblical Hebrew has no such word. "Field" in Hebrew is "Sadeh" or "Shedamah"; "dma" is the Aramaic for "blood". Acts 1:19 in the Greek tells us that "Akeldama" represents the language
of Jerusalem and the region- clearly an Aramaic compound word.
But let's suppose for the sake of argument that Hebrew proper was the language to which Luke referred. That would mean the Jews spoke Hebrew and only Hebrew, as only one language is predicated of the residents of the region of Judea in Acts 1:19. Aramaic would not have been commonly spoken in that case.
But history tells a different story. The Jews had Hebrew scrolls read in their synagogues on the Sabbath; then after the reading of the Hebrew, a Targum was read, because the people did not understand Hebrew. This practice started at Babylon after the Jewish captivity. The Targums are evidence that in Babylon and in Palestine, the common language of the Jews was not Hebrew and was in fact, Aramaic.More powerful historical evidence is provided by Josephus, who wrote that "he composed" his Jewish Wars "in the language of his country and sent them also to the upper Barbarians."
Whiston???s note on the ???upper Barbarians???: Who these Upper Barbarians, remote from the sea, were, Josephus himself will inform us, sect.
2, viz. the Parthians and Babylonians, and remotest Arabians [of the Jews among them]; besides the Jews beyond Euphrates, and the Adiabeni, or Assyrians.
Whence we also learn that these Parthians, Babylonians, the remotest Arabians, [or at least the Jews among them,] as also the Jews beyond Euphrates, and the
Adiabeni, or Assyrians, understood Josephus's Hebrew, or rather Chaldaic, books of The Jewish War, before they were put into the Greek language.
"Chaldaic" is an old term for Aramaic, though often referred to as "Hebrew", as here by Whiston, the translator of Josephus' works in Greek. Josephus composed his works in Aramaic. The Assyrians and Parthians and Babylonians would have been able to read Aramaic, but not Hebrew. He also says he translated his works into Greek for the Romans.
Internal Biblical and historical evidence confirms the position that the Jews of the 2nd Temple period, and certainly of the 1st century AD, spoke, read and wrote Aramaic as their national language.
Alfred Edersheim wrote that ???the language spoken by the Hebrews was no longer Hebrew, but Aramaean, both in Palestine and in Babylonia; in the former the Western, in the latter the Eastern dialect. In fact, the common people were ignorant of pure Hebrew, which henceforth became the language of the student and of the Synagogue.??? -p. 10, The Life and Times of Jesus The Messiah
Hebrew would have been reserved for Rabbinical school exercizes and for the scribes who copied the Hebrew scrolls for the synagogues. Students might learn Hebrew in a classroom setting, but that would be a far cry from making it their native language, even as a Seminary student learning Greek, Hebrew or Latin will hardly ever make those his or her spoken language. How many Jewish kids who go to Hebrew school in the U.S. speak Hebrew in everyday conversation at home? Most likely, they speak English at home.
As for the Hebrew letters found from the post AD 70 period, I would say that the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple changed everything for the generations following. The former traditions and the national spirit were radically altered and compromised, and understandably so. Even the prospect of the Temple???s destruction was seen by Peter, James and John as ???the end of the world???, as per Matthew 24:1-3; imagine the effect the actual destruction had upon the people of Israel at the time and upon their children. Perhaps they attempted to revive their pre-Babylonian Hebrew as a spoken tongue, to counter the effect of Gentile oppression and tyranny. It would be a major error to cite post Temple practices and documents as evidence to establish customs and traditions for pre AD 70 Israel. They were two different worlds entirely!
I have said nothing of the hundreds of internal Greek readings which are demonstrably translated from Peshitta readings, from Matthew to Revelation, and the fact that the Greek NT declares itself to be a translation of Aramaic in six places of the Gospels and Acts. I have shown this in notes for John 1:38-42 & elsewhere.
"But lies have winged feet; truth plods alongside the snail."
Therefore we must brush away the fast and furious locust-like cloud of lies to see and think clearly as we search for the truth. Perhaps it is already before us,at our feet; if not, we must be patient.
If the NT was written in Hebrew, where's the beef? Show us the manuscripts.Show us Hebrew mss. of 4 Gospels, or of any NT epistles.
Nrben al ylmw Nwrben aeraw ayms Lu 21:33
"Heaven and earth will pass away; my words will never pass away."
Blessings,
Dave Bauscher
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com