Setting the record straight

[Christina]

...
If we are to agree with Dave's interpretation of "Plagiarism" then the KJV is no less a "Plagiarized" work.

Dave, are you prepared to level this same charge against the Translators of the 1611 Edition of the Bible & John Rogers, the Editor of the 1st English OT/NT called the ???Mathew???s Bible??? of 1537?

If not, then please explain why not?

...

That is a great question akhi Thirdwoe! Care to answer this one Dave?

Here are some quotes from the comments on amazon.com. Dave simply regurgitates his "essay rater" analysis so I won't re-post it here, instead I will quote the other 2:

Albion's comments have hands-down been the nastiest, he hasn't changed a bit, he's still obsessed with "Silver Crow" and is as self-centered as ever:

Dave,

As you probably saw, my review was hacked by Paul's stooge, David.

What strange bedfellows, Church of the East Deacons, wannabe Nazarenes and (so-called) "wiccan" computer hackers!

Albion Guppy

To Nick D.,

Dear Nick,

*I* was/am "the inquirer" that Ryan so courageously mentions here.

It was I who ANDREW CHOSE to release his first Book (Matthew's Gospel) of the AENT to the public through my review.

He (Andrew Gabriel Roth) sent me a PDF file of 'Matthew's Gospel' from MARI (P.E.A.C.E.)......this is what we ALL used to call the book that is now known as the AENT.

Anyway, Andrew chose me to release the PDF of Matthew's Gospel as a preview of his soon coming New Testament, to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- m -->, which I gladly DID.

Later, God actually showed me that the AENT was a forgery (Yes, it was really GOD who "exposed" Andrew, NOT I !), and I asked these questions that Ryan has now publically posted here.

I was treated to "a hate fest" from ALL of the Moderators (except Stephen Silver), and crucified in public to the point of extreme cruelty through the use of words there at peshitta.org.

Paul Younan, who is a (so-called) "Deacon" in the Church of the East, led this manslaughter (Ryan did NOT include this part here at Amazon.com) and attack of emotional brutality upon me, and then I was summarily and PERMANETLY BANNED from <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- m --> where I had been a member on and off since 2001!

ALL of this (in my opinion) was to "hide" this plagiarism which involved Paul Younan every bit as much as it did Andrew Gabriel Roth. THIS IS WHAT I WAS ASKING ABOUT PUBLICALLY as an "inquirer", under the name "The Truth Committee", at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- m -->.

IF I remember *correctly*, this all took place on November the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th of 2008.

If you'd like to hear how God showed me exactly what happened, I'll publish it here again. That story was here, but it was hacked intentionally.

Please let me know, and I'll be happy as I have time, to publish it again.

I applaud Ryan's fearlessness in the eye of the monster that both Andrew and Paul (very sadly) seem to have become!

Albion Guppy April 3rd, 2009

I would like to explain how God gave me 'a head's up' on Andrew's plagiarism.

And what I did with that information.

I was reading in Matthew's Gospel (of the AENT) trying for the umpteenth time to make sense out of the poor writing, and the typos and spelling mistakes...........All of a sudden God spoke to me and said: "I want to show you something".

I had NO IDEA that Andrew Gabriel Roth had plagiarized both Paul Younan's and James Murdock's work in his AENT.

I got down Paul Younan's Aramaic/English Gospels, and read and compared them to Andrew's AENT and lo and behold, THEY WERE THE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME WORDS!!!

I was completely and absolutely blown away! Mind boggled really.

And I felt God "impress" upon my mind that there was yet more, and He showed me where to look for the rest of the damning evidence of plagiarism by Andrew.

And I said something to the effect of: "OK, Lord, but WHAT do you want me to do about it??"

And then He showed me someone who I had ended my relationship with in a bad way from Peshitta.org.

I said: "Lord all he's gonna believe about me is that I'm angry, he's NOT gonna listen to me". This person had earlier referred to me as "the angry brother" at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- m -->.

And God said: "TRUST ME".

And my wife packaged and sealed up my copy of the AENT, and we mailed it to this person.

I would refer to him by name here, but I've not asked him if that's OK to do or not.

But God was completely TRUE to His Word(s).

My old enemy has now become a beloved friend to me. "God is good ALL OF THE TIME" (as the Christian musician Don Moen might sang).

I WAS angry at peshitta.org, I was angry about a (so-called) "wiccan" hacker being allowed to stalk me there as he had stalked me all over the rest of the internet.

I was also angry that Paul Younan KNEW all of this, and he (Paul) also knew that this man had hacked the PM message system at peshitta.org, and if you clicked on the hackers profile you automatically got 20 MEGABYTES downloaded to your computer.....along with a keylogger, spyware, and malware.

Yes, I WAS VERY ANGRY! I admit it.

When Paul Younan led the psychic/emotional assualt on me, and said that I needed to see a secular psychiatrist, and get on some psychiatric drug(s). I got even ANGRIER!

Does Paul Younan now have a degree in psychiatric medicine that I don't know about??

The "BOTTOM LINE" here is: GOD ACTUALLY EXPOSED ANDREW GABRIEL ROTH as a plagiarist, and God exposed his buddy, Paul Younan, as doing a fine CYA Program for Andrew Gabriel Roth.

YHWH EXPOSED BOTH OF THESE MEN, for exactly who, and what, THEY REALLY ARE!

I affirm that this story IS TRUE, and is told word-by-word, as I remember it.

Shlama, Albion Guppy April 8th, 2009

First, please check out this post:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2008-May/145072.html">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubunt ... 45072.html</a><!-- m -->

Let me just say, that I've been in a WAR, and it's going into it's SEVENTH (7th) YEAR now.

Clearly, I've got Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

Now, this ISN'T a license to mis-behave, or to 'act out' with one's anger, as I did, from time-to-time.

I honestly did NOT mean to do that, but I'm angry about what has happened to myself AND to my wife.

I'm very angry and very SAD that this has all happened to Sandy and myself, I truly AM.

But what Paul Younan did to me at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- m --> is completely an Anti-Messiah thing to do, it clearly was NOT in the spirit of Yeshua (Jesus).

In fact, it was, and still IS, in the spirit of the father of lies, the devil.

Paul Younan has NEVER said "I'm sorry", nor do I feel that an apology will ever be forthcoming from him.

Paul thought that to nail me to the cross was FUNNY, and he literally made fun of me, in front of the whole forum.

He said things to me in public, that should only have been said IN PRIVATE.

Now my PTSD is not Paul Younan's fault, but him falling to you know who's negative magic, WAS Paul's fault. He defended this man's darkness right there on the forum, in public.

In fact, this man has bragged elsewhere on the net, how Paul Younan DEFENDED HIM IN PUBLIC, there on the forum.

Now, Paul Younan defended this hacker who actually hacked Peshitta.org back in October of 2007, and literally took it off the net for almost a MONTH!

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE??

I want to apologize to ANYONE that my PTSD affected, and HURT. I'M TRULY SORRY! I really AM.

But what Paul has done in standing by Andrew Gabriel Roth in his darkness (plagiarism), is just as wrong as anything that I've ever done out of having PTSD.

You know, I used to be embarrassed by what Paul Younan said about me. But he's just as guilty in all of this plagiarism stuff as Andrew is. And clearly, Paul Younan is the one who should be embarassed by all of this!

I'm SORRY for what I did, or failed to do, but in the end, Paul and Andrew are the guilty ones here.

The Messianic/Nazarene movement AND the Assyrian Church of the East should both be mortified by all of this.

In my OPINION, the CoE should take Paul Younan's Deaconate away from him, LITERALLY.

But will this ever actually HAPPEN?? I seriously doubt it!

I just needed to say all of this, thank YOU for listening.

Shlama, Albion

P.S. Please check out this:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.com/Aramaic-Peshitta-New-Testament-Translation/dp/096796136X/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I63OI2CXYMK38&colid=DJM90LP653YO">http://www.amazon.com/Aramaic-Peshitta- ... M90LP653YO</a><!-- m -->

You need to remove the underscore as David has hacked the Amazon.com servers to where one CANNOT use the "Peshitta" word here anymore at all.

Gee's Butch, I hate to disappoint you, but James Trimm did NOT "translate" the HRV "New Testament",he merely plagiarized 'The Way International's' Aramaic-English Interlinear New Testament, and neither did Andrew Gabriel Roth "translate" the Aramaic English New Testament.

What is it with these (so-called) "Nazarene" New Covenant "translators"?
They cannot "translate", but they instead, merely plagiarize other REAL translators New Testaments??

I'm not sure, but I do know that it's shameful!

Instead of REALLY translating, Andrew Gabriel Roth used Paul Younan's Aramaic-English New Testament for ALL of his Gospels, and a large part of his Book of Acts.
According to another Aramaicist Primacy translator, upwards towards 98% of Andrew's AENT actually use's Paul Younan's Aramaic-English Interlinear New Testament, for it's "base text", in the Gospel's, and in Acts.

And the rest of the Andrew Gabriel Roth's New Testament is even WORSE. It slavishly follows James Murdock's Syriac to English New Testament. Yes, it DOES change the Names to "Master" YHWH, and Y'shua, and the Disciples names have all been 'Aramicized', as have place names, but that's it.

Andrew's AENT follows James Murdock's Syriac to English New Testament almost word-per-word, otherwise.

This is known as "plagiarism" in the printing world (where I personally spent some time, long ago).

The appendice's are also (in places) taken from other author's work (such as E.W. Bullinger's work), WITHOUT giving credit to the original author.

Andrew Gabriel Roth's AENT cost $65.00, and is not really worth $15.00, as it's a completely unreadable MESS, especially in the Gospel's.

But be my guest, if you want to buy yet ANOTHER plagiarized "Nazarene New Testament", and waste your hard earned $65.00, please, go ahead.

However, if it was ME, I'd contact Andrew Gabriel Roth, and ask HIM just how much of Paul Younan's Aramaic-English Interlinear New Testament did you actually use in your (supposed) "translation"?

And how much of James Murdock's Syriac to English New Testament did you use (read: "PLAGIARIZE") in your AENT?
Hold Andrew's feet to the fire, and remind him just how many times that he criticized James Trimm for plagiarizing his HRV New Testament.

It's funny, Andrew used to refer to James Trimm's HRV New Testament as "the Horribly Ruined Version" of the New Testament, but I can tell you personally, that the HRV is a far better plagiarized New Testament, because 'The Way International's' New Testament, was a great base text to work from (read: "plagiarize" from).

In the end, both Andrew Gabriel Roth, and James Trimm may escape Justice here on earth, but at The Great White Throne Judgement, their sins WILL be remembered, UNLESS THEY BOTH CHOOSE TO REPENT, and withdraw these hideous attempts at plagiarized "New Testament's", from the market, and refund the literally thousands of dollars that they BOTH have ripped off from innocent reader's, otherwise, their fate is in YHWH's hand's.

Andrew, who I once called my "friend", you KNOW BETTER then doing this! SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on you!

P.S. You the reader would be far better served if you buy this translation by Dave Bauscher, that has absolutely GREAT study notes in it, along with an easy to read text, it is really a very well done translation:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.com/Original-Aramaic-Testament-Plain-English/dp/1435712897/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235336467&sr=8-1">http://www.amazon.com/Original-Aramaic- ... 467&sr=8-1</a><!-- m -->

Shlama, Albion Guppy

Ryan's Dooley has not only smeared Andrew and Paul, but also the rest of the forum members and moderators:

You know, I've been biting my tongue on saying this, but at this point I think it is just too obvious to pass over. I'm reminded of something which Albion had said one time in that Comments section which no longer exists on this bible's webpage. That would be his mention of the "deafening silence" coming from the author towards the claim of plagiarism being alleged here. Perhaps it was at its time stated prematurely, but at least absolutely truthfully and knowledgably. Because here now is evidence in abundance, and no peep is yet to be heard from the author, nor his publisher in person .......

No, not even from all of this bible's and its author's FANFARE. The silence is indeed deafening!!! I mean, come on! I periodically stop in at Pesh_tta.org and it's as though they're all just going on about life as though this product was never posted here for sale. Andrew's bible is still praised, no one's attitudes have changed .... there is no discussion made about those "weirdos" or "slanderers" over at Amazon.com - as though this whole issue is just a vacuum of non-existence.

I find it impossible to believe that Mr. Roth never stops by his own product page to see what is being said about it, or how its ratings are coming along. And maybe Mr. Younan is too busy of a guy, who knows. But there are many, many fans of Andrew Roth's that I know cannot ALL possibly be NOT checking out his beloved bible's mainstream public selling page (here) .... all at the same time!

I know for a fact just how perceptible most of them are in digging up obscure websites to contribute to their scholarly forum in discussions. Yet, here they ALL turn a synchronized blind eye to THIS .... Andrew's worldwide-outreach bible-selling webpage on the net .... which was a dream they'd all been desperately and impatiently waiting for and longing to see ???

Come on!

This has just got to be an INTENTIONAL silent treatment. NOT A SINGLE SOUL has come to Andrew's defense here, with any defense at all, whether small or large. Not the smallest scrap of evidence to counter what we've provided. And certainly no large masterpiece to put any of us in our places. No detractors accusing us of misinterpreting Mr. Roth's Introductory comments about "consulting/comparing" his work to Younan's/Murdock's. I would like to be proven wrong. But this issue is looking so galvanized that it could be enameled in bronze.

I used to feel bad for Mr. Roth when this issue first came to my attention via Albion. Surely it must've been ME who had misinterpreted Andrew's Introduction. Or surely the underlying translations couldn't be THAT close to Younan's or Murdock's. After all, I hadn't thought to compare it with anyone else's translations before (thank you Dave B. for pointing me to the L.L. Sheets webpage). I just took Andrew's word for what he had been saying all along about his upcoming `masterpiece'.

Masterpiece alright! More like master-pieces, all glued together. All he had to do, if this WAS his original intent, was state that this WAS what he was going to do. Then there would be no fuss! That is, as long as he didn't forget to include due credit to the authors' translations which he borrowed, in the Introduction. Yet, he has failed on BOTH these accounts, and now apparently is *unaware* of all these Comments being posted here and discussed .... ON HIS OWN PRODUCT'S WEBPAGE ??? !!!

So much so that he cannot even post a SINGLE COMMENT defending himself ??? Or perhaps apologize? Ridiculous! And not a single representative on his behalf, either. Where ARE all those friends and supporters of his? I mean, here I am. Yes I admit that I used to be a lavish fawner over Andrew's scholarship and thus his `seeming ability' to translate. But I guess one could say that I've now seen the light. I seriously doubt Andrew's ability to be rendered, truly, a "scholar" at all.

This AENT was supposed to be Andrew's own translation. Done by his own hand, taken from independent translations that he'd done for various people over various years, all smooshed into one, cohesive, study bible. Instead, we got L.L. Sheets' edited version of Paul Younan's work .... VERY ROUGH editing as should be noted .... plus James Murdock's work for the rest where Mr. Younan's left off .......

Plus, a horrendous translation of Galatians DEMONSTRATING Mr. Roth's *true ability* as a "Syriac scholar". I am sincerely led to believe now, based on his stab at Galatians, that the true reason why Mr. Roth ended up exclusively using others' translations, rather than translating for himself, is that because he CANNOT. And yet, so many people were led to believe that he could translate par excellence, that they egged him on to do so. And finally, under such tremendous pressure, he finally gave in.

I am very saddened. I don't want to appear to merely slight him though .... no, I want him to see what he's done, and repent, so that he can be restored. But it's not happening so long as he continues to prill his "scholarly" aura through his previously published works, now this one, and still as primary Moderator at Paul Younan's forum.

Mr. Roth, if I have personally contributed to your downfall, I beg your forgiveness. If I have tested you, and you have failed this test by my words of lavish praise to your abilities, then I repent. I am sorry. Please acknowledge my sins committed in ignorance, as I could not see their denigrating effect on your ego at the time. Truly, a man is tested by the praise of his friends. Yet I'll never know for sure if I WAS part of the problem, unless YOU come here and open up about YOUR bible, and about all aforementioned Comments posted thus far.

Prove us wrong and BRING US to repentance; otherwise, prove us right with an honest display of humility by repentance on your own behalf. And in your awaited and speedy forgiveness, reveal at least to me whether or not you feel I contributed to your downfall. Please do not keep it back. This is the most I can think of to do as your former brother in the Faith, aside from praying for you. Let there come redemption out of this whole disgrace, please. And stop the madness of having everyone think that you're someone that you're not.

-Brother Ryan