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The Sign of Jonah
#1
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I'll start with this....

In Matthew 12: 38-40 it reads. ???But He (Y???shua) answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah: For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale???s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth???

If anyone here can show how, the ONLY sign that Y'shua gave that evil and adulterous generation to show who he was, fits the year 33 A.D. and the Scriptures, I would like to see it.

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#2
shlomo Thirdwoe,

The Aramaic text of the Peshitta is more specific than the English translation. Here's what I mean:

Jonah => 3 days (???????? ??????????) and 3 nights (???????? ??????????)
Son of man => 3 days (???????? ????????????) and 3 nights (???????? ??????????)

Notice here that the spelling for the word ???days??? for Jonah is different than that of the word ???days??? for the Son of man:

"??????????"
<= 24 hour day (sunset to sunset)
??????????????????
<= during the daytime part of the day

So given the above definitions, and the fact that Yeshu??? had died on Friday in the afternoon; then once the artificial darkness (Matthew 27:45) went away and daytime came back, this we would be our first day (Friday - in daytime); and the day time for Saturday would be the second day; and finally the early hours of Sunday at first light would be the third day.

As for three nights => On Friday when the darkness had overwhelmed the land (an artificial night of around 3 hours during the daytime period of Friday): 1st night, Saturday Night (equivalent of the western Friday night): 2nd night, and Sunday Night (equivalent of the western Saturday night): 3rd night

P.S. This is a possible explanation!

psuh bashlomo,
keefa-morun
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#3
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Very good.... that is an A for effort on the 3 Days part and the breakdown of the Aramaic words. That is plausible if you are right about only parts of days being the true meaning.

But if the 3 hours of darkness during that Friday day is part of the "3 nights" that Yeshu was in the "heart of the Earth" he was not in the heart of the Earth, but hanging above it and still alive until 3 PM...It seems to me that this is too far of a stretch to be considered plausible.

Can we look at Matthew 28:1 in the Aramaic and see what it says please.
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#4
George Lamsa told me that in Eastern Aramaic and semitic cultures one part of a day is accounted as a whole day. A part of Friday is one day, a part of Saturday is one day, and a part of Sunday is one day, totaling three days.

Otto
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#5
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Really? Mr. Lamsa never told me that.

But if it were true and it is what Y'shua meant, then what about the "3 nights" part?

Using this method one can scrape together enough light from Friday late evening to Sunday early morning to get a partial "3 days", but certainly one can't find enough darkness to make "3 Nights" or parts of "3 Nights" where Y'shua was in the "Heart of the Earth" fulfilling the Sign of Jonah.

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#6
shlomo Thirdwoe,

Thirdwoe Wrote:But if the 3 hours of darkness during that Friday day is part of the "3 nights" that Yeshu was in the "heart of the Earth" he was not in the heart of the Earth, but hanging above it and still alive until 3 PM...It seems to me that this is too far of a stretch to be considered plausible.

The term "hearth of the earth" (???????? ??????????) is a reference to hell, so at the moment of His death he went there to liberate us from hell.

In Semitic culture (i.e. Jewish, Canaanite, Aramean, Assyrian, etc...) we don't bury our dead under the ground; we put them in catacombs above the ground. To this day each family in Lebanon has their own family catacomb. The only people in the middle-east who bury their dead under the ground are the Muslims.

Thirdwoe Wrote:Can we look at Matthew 28:1 in the Aramaic and see what it says please.

Here it says, that in the evening (i.e. Sunday - equivalent to the western Saturday evening) they came to see the catacomb (after the Sabbath). Here the word came (??????) just tells us that they came to the catacomb; but not length of the period before the angel appeared to them nor even how long it took them to reach the catacomb.
The abruptness between matay 28:1 and matay 28:2 in the Aramaic would seem to indicate that the author skipped right to the next important event (i.e. the angel appearing.)
In essence the gospel of matay gave us a short summary of the events that occurred.

Now marqos 16:2, and luqo 24:1 fill in the blanks and give us what happened at daybreak (i.e. the events with the angels) with additional details

And yuhanon 20:1 on the other hand gives an even shorter summary of the events than matay, but clearly states that they made it to the catacomb in the morning hours of Sunday.

Here if we combine the Aramaic text from the four gospels we're giving a detailed image of what happened:

All four gospels agree that they came on Sunday (?????????? ???????? ???? ????????) (Semitic time) and after the Sabbath (???? ???????? ????????); it seems that before they started their journey they bought some anointments (?????? ?????????? ???????????? ????????????????). After buying the anointments they must have walked for a while until they reached the catacomb; and it seems that they reached it while the day was just breaking (?????????? ???? ????????). While they were going there a great earthquake happened which opened the door of the catacomb -- caused by the angel (?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ???? ????????). When they reached the catacomb door, as the sun was coming up (???????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ????????) they saw that the door was already opened (?????? ?????????????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???????? ???? ???????? ???????? ??????????), and the body of yeshu' wasn't there (???? ?????????????? ?????????? ??????????). At that point they saw two men standing by them with shinning garments (???? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ??????????????) and with one situated near the rock (???????? ???????? ?????? ????????) on the right side (???????? ???? ??????????). It would seem that the one on the right side did the actual talking (as the other one is only mentioned by the gospel of luqo); and the one on the right hand side told them not to be afraid as yeshu' had risen ( ???? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????????? ???? ????) he that was crucified and then asked them what they wanted of the living among the dead (?????? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ???? ????????) and reminded them of the rising on the third day (?????????? ?????????? ????????). Although here they use the generic term for day, we remember the precision that yeshu' had made in matay 12:40

Here are the actual verses:
matay 28:1 => ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????? ???? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????? ?????????? ???????????? ????????
matay 28:2 => ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????? ????????

marqos 16:1 => ?????? ???????? ???????? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????? ???????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????????? ????????????????
marqos 16:2 => ?????????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ????????
marqos 16:3 => ?????????? ?????? ?????????????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???????? ???? ???????? ???????? ??????????
marqos 16:4 => ?????? ?????? ???????????? ???? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????
marqos 16:5 => ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ????????
marqos 16:6 => ???? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????????? ???????? ???????? ??????

luqo 24:1 => ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ??????????????
luqo 24:2 => ?????????? ???????? ???????????? ???? ?????? ??????????
luqo 24:3 => ?????????? ?????? ?????????????? ?????????? ??????????
luqo 24:4 => ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ??????????????
luqo 24:5 => ???????? ???????????? ???????? ???????????? ?????????? ???????????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ???? ????????
luqo 24:6 => ???????????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???? ????????????
luqo 24:7 => ???????? ?????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ?????????? ???????????? ?????????? ???????? ???????? ???????????? ???????????? ?????????? ????????

yuhanon 20:1 => ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ???????????? ???? ????????


So each one of the the gospels gives us varying level of details, which is a normal thing giving that all of the writers of the gospels weren't there and heard it from the women. (i.e. say a story to a group of people, and then wait a while, and then ask them to write it down, and you'll be able to simulate how the above accounts came to be.)

psuh bashlomo,
keefa-morun
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#7
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I agree with you about the "Heart of Earth" statement meaning that Y'Shua was in Hell for 3 days and 3 nights fulfilling the Sign of Jonah.

And if it is indeed true that this began on Friday at 3pm and ended on Sunday morning say 5 am and that those 3 parts of days make the 3 days fulfillment.... I must ask the obvious question.... What about the big pink elephant in the middle of the room?

We are still missing something are we not?

Where is the 3rd night in hell?

Based on this scenario, Y'shua spent Friday evening (1st Night in Hell) then Saturday evening (2nd Night in Hell) but if He arose that next Sunday morning before the sun was risen, there was no 3rd Night in Hell.

Where is the 3rd Night then?

Anyone?

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#8
shlomo Thirdwoe,

Thirdwoe Wrote:Where is the 3rd night in hell?

Based on this scenario, Y'shua spent Friday evening (1st Night in Hell) then Saturday evening (2nd Night in Hell) but if He arose that next Sunday morning before the sun was risen, there was no 3rd Night in Hell.

Where is the 3rd Night then?

In my opinion, as I said in my first response, the first night was that during the period of darkness, because the darkness period didn't go away until after his death, so technically there was no daylight when he died.
(The 6th hour is roughly noon (mid-daytime in Semitic time), and the 9th hour is roughly 3PM (in Semitic time)) <= This relation with the western time system isn't always one-to-one, and changes based on the time of the year.

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun
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#9
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Would you say then that since there was no chance of a fulfillment of the 3 days & 3 nights sign being able to take place from sundown Friday to Sunup Sunday, that God turned off the Light to make the prophecy work? Or do you think there was another reason for the darkness covering the Land that afternoon?

It's a large stretch you make for sure and needs a big "technically" interpretation to work while there is just the slightest amount of paint here to make a picture with, but is it indeed the real picture or just the artist???s imagination...?

I'm going to reveal another picture here and lets see if it looks closer to what the Scriptures depict than what you have painted.

Test all things, prove all things, and hold fast to that which is good....

And to be honest, I am not dogmatic about this and have a very open mind about it.

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#10
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Nowhere do the Scriptures tell us that Y???shua was crucified and died on a Friday!

Shocking I know.

What they do say though is that He was crucified on???."The day before the Sabbath", (Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14, 31, 42).

As the weekly Sabbath was Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday, people have assumed that Y???shua was crucified on a Friday.

But we know that the Scriptures bear abundant testimony that their were other Sabbaths beside the weekly Sabbath.

The first day of the Passover week for instance, no matter what day of the week it came, was always a Sabbath.

"And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein" (Leviticus 23:6, 7).

On the seventh day of this feast, the 21st of Nisan, was another Sabbath:

" . . . in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein" (Leviticus 23:8).
The day of Pentecost was a Sabbath Numbers 28:26. This is the reason we read about Sabbaths in the plural number in the Old Testament Leviticus 26:2, 34, 35, 43.

The Scriptures makes it plain; Y???shua was crucified and buried on:

" . . . the preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath" (Mark 15:42).

John tells us: "And it was the preparation of the Passover" (John 19:14).

It was the preparation for the Holy Day, the Night to Be Much Remembered, the 14th of Nisan John 13:1, 29; 18:28.

It was the preparation to keep the Passover Sabbath, the annual Sabbath, which always came on the 15th day of the first ecclesiastical month. John 19:31 adds: " . . . (for that Sabbath day was an high day) . . . ."

Its greatness was due to the fact that it was the annual Sabbath of the Passover Festival.

So, there were Two Sabbaths that Week...

Matthew makes it plain that two Sabbaths had passed since Y???shua was crucified.

The KJV has this rendering: "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre" (Matthew 28:1).

On this verse nearly all translators have allowed tradition to control their translation. It is not "Sabbath" but "Sabbaths" plural in the Greek text (the genitive case and the plural number).

The verse properly translated would read: "In the end of the sabbaths . . . ."

This allows for an annual Sabbath on Thursday and a regular Sabbath on Saturday.

Also, when Y???shua was buried near sundown on the day of the Passover, "Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary"
Watched the burial. Matthew 27:58-61.

Immediately after the burial, Luke says: "And that day was the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on" (Luke 3:54).

This Sabbath was an annual Sabbath on Thursday. The day after the annual Sabbath the women bought spices, Mark 16:1.

Luke tells us that the women, after preparing the spices on Friday, " . . . Rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment" (Luke 23:56).

The traditional interpretation makes Mark and Luke contradict each other.

In Mark 16:1 we are informed that the Sabbath was past when the spices were purchased. "Had" is inserted without any authority from the Greek text.

"No reason can be given for the variation--bought sweet spices. Not "had bought" (An American Commentary on the New Testament, Vol. 11, p. 251).

In Luke 23:56 we are told that the women prepared the spices and ointments, and rested the Sabbath day.

If Y???shua lay in the tomb on Sabbath only, Mark and Luke contradict each other. But if He lay there two Sabbaths having a workday between them, then Mark and Luke harmonize to perfection!

So, When does the Scriptures say that Y'shua rose from the dead?

The two Mary's came to the tomb: "In the end of the Sabbath" (Matthew 28:1).

The Sabbath always ended at sunset: "From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath" (Leviticus 23:32).

When they went to the tomb before sunrise on the first day of the week. Y???shua had already risen from the dead before their arrival. Matthew 28:1-8. Mark 16:2

According to the Scriptures then, Y???shua arose sometime after sunset on Saturday evening and before the Sun came up the next morning on the 1st day of the week (Sunday).

The two Mary???s saw Him, heard Him speak, and held His feet just when the Sabbath ended and the first day of the week was beginning.

"In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week . . ." (Matthew 28:1).

Mark 16:9 tells us Y???shua first appeared to Mary Magdalene early, the first day of the week, which was sometime between Saturday evening just after sundown when the 1st day of the week began and before the sun rose the next morning while it was still dark.

The nearer after sunset this happened, the earlier in the first of the week it was.

Mark does not say that she was alone at the time she first saw Jesus, and Matthew tells us that: "the other Mary was with her" (Matthew 28:1).

The Date of the Crucifixion

Having shown from Matthew 28:1 that Y'shua rose from the grave sometime between when the Sabbath ended at sunset and the first day of the week began, then this would put the crucifixion on Wednesday at sunset just as the preparation day ended and the annual Passover Sabbath commenced.

According to the Gospel writers, Y???shua died at the ninth hour (3:00 p.m. our time) and was buried about sunset that same day, Luke 23:44, 45, 50-54; Mark 15:33-38, 42-47.

If Y???shua were buried at sunset on Wednesday night and arose at sunset on Saturday, He fulfilled the Sign of Jonah.

He would have been in the tomb Wednesday night, Thursday night, and Friday night--a full "three days".

All together a full "three days and three nights." Thus we have a literal fulfillment of the words of Y???shua in Matthew 12:40.

Hence there is no need to follow a flawed tradition.

". . . He rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1Corinthians 15:4), Not the second day according tradition!


Some Scriptures speak of His resurrection "after three days" (Mark 8:31; 9:31 R. V.; 10:34 R. V.; Matthew 27:63).

Other verses say "three days" (Matthew 26:60, 61; 27:39, 40; Mark 14:58; 15:29, 30; John 2:19, 20).

Still others speak of "the third day" (Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 27:64; Luke 9:22; 18;33; 24:6, 7, 21, 46; Acts 10:40; 1 Corinthians 16:4).

Some make much over "the third day" in Luke 24:21, and they affirm that if the crucifixion took place on Wednesday, Sunday would be the fourth day since these things were done.

But the answer is simple.

These things were done just as Thursday was beginning at sunset on Wednesday.

They were therefore completed on Thursday, and the first day since Thursday would be Friday, the second day since Thursday would be Saturday, and "the third day since" Thursday would be Sunday, the first day of the week.

So the supposed objection in reality supports the Wednesday crucifixion.

But if the crucifixion took place on Friday, by no manner of reckoning could Sunday be made "the third day since" these things were done.

Unless we believe the Scriptures contain errors, we know that all passages must harmonize.

Therefore, "after three days" must mean the same as "the third day" Matthew 16:21.

There is nothing in the Scriptures to favor a Friday crucifixion of Y???shua.

The biblical record harmonizes with a Wednesday crucifixion and a Saturday evening Resurrection--a full 72 hours.

This view allows for a literal interpretation of "three days and three nights."

It also allows for the word "after three days" to mean just that.

It proves that Y???shua fulfilled the Sign of Jonah and thus proved His Messiahship to a wicked and adulterous generation.



This piece below makes it very concise: I found it on <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gotquestions.org">www.gotquestions.org</a><!-- w -->

Question: "On what day was Jesus crucified?"

Answer: The Bible does not specifically state which day of the week Jesus was crucified. The two most widely held views are Friday and Wednesday.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:40, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Those who argue for a Friday crucifixion say that there is still a valid way in which He could have been considered in the grave for three days. In the Jewish mind of the First Century, a part of day was considered as a full day. Since Jesus was in the grave for part of Friday, all of Saturday, and part of Sunday???He could be considered to have been in the grave for three days. One of the principal arguments for Friday is found in Mark 15:42 that notes that Jesus was crucified "the day before the Sabbath." If that was the weekly Sabbath, i.e. Saturday, then that fact leads to a Friday crucifixion. Another argument for Friday says that verses such as Matthew 16:21 and Luke 9:22 teach that Jesus would rise on the third day; therefore, He wouldn't need to be in the grave a full three days and nights. But while some translations use "on the third day" for these verses, not all do and not everyone agrees that that is the best way to translate these verses. Furthermore, Mark 8:31 says that Jesus will be raised "after" three days.


The Wednesday position states that there were two Sabbaths that week. After the first one (the one that occurred on the evening of the crucifixion, Mark 15:42; Luke 23:52-54), the women purchased spices--note that they made their purchase after the Sabbath (Mark 16:1). The Wednesday view holds that this "Sabbath" was the Passover (see Lev 16:29-31; 23:24-32, 39 where high holy days that are not necessarily the seventh day of the week are referred to as the Sabbath). The second Sabbath that week was the normal weekly Saturday. Note that in Luke 23:56, the women who had purchased spices after the first Sabbath, returned and prepared the spices then "rested on the Sabbath" (Luke 23:56). The argument states that they could not purchase the spices after the Sabbath, yet prepare those spices before the Sabbath???unless there were two Sabbaths. With the two-Sabbath view, if Christ were crucified on Thursday, then the high holy Sabbath (the Passover) would have begun Thursday at sundown and ended at Friday sundown???at the beginning of the weekly Sabbath or Saturday. Purchasing the spices after the first Sabbath (Passover) would have meant they purchased them on Saturday and were breaking the Sabbath.

Therefore, this view states, the only explanation that does not violate the biblical account of the women and the spices and holds to a literal understanding of Matthew 12:40, is that Christ was crucified on Wednesday. The Sabbath that was a high holy day (Passover) occurred on Thursday, the women purchased spices (after that) on Friday and returned and prepared the spices on the same day, they rested on Saturday, which was the weekly Sabbath, then brought the spices to the tomb early Sunday. He was buried near sundown on Wednesday, which began Thursday in the Jewish calendar. Using a Jewish calendar, you have Thursday night (night one), Thursday day (day one), Friday night (night two), Friday day (day two), Saturday night (night three), Saturday day (day three). We don't know exactly when He rose, but we do know that it was before sunrise on Sunday (John 20:1, Mary Magdalene came "while it was still dark" and the stone was rolled away and she found Peter and told him that "they have taken away the Lord out of the tomb"), so He could have risen as early as just after sunset Saturday evening, which began the first day of the week to the Jews.

A possible problem with the Wednesday view is that the disciples who walked with Jesus on the road to Emmaus did so on "the same day" of His resurrection (Luke 24:13). The disciples, who do not recognize Jesus, tell Him of Jesus' crucifixion (24:21) and say that "today is the third day since these things happened" (24:22). Wednesday to Sunday is four days. A possible explanation is that they may have been counting since Wednesday evening at Christ's burial, which begins the Jewish Thursday, and Thursday to Sunday could be counted as three days.

In the grand scheme of things, it is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day. What is important is that He did die, and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died???to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that believing, or putting your trust, in Him results in eternal life!


Also in doing some research I found this article that is interesting where a 3rd scenario is proposed... <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.direct.ca/trinity/crucified.html">http://www.direct.ca/trinity/crucified.html</a><!-- m -->

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Reply
#11
shlomo Thirdwoe,

List of the days of the week according to Aramaic:
Had bshabo (Sunday) => ???????? ????????????????
tren bshabo (Monday) => ?????????????? ????????????????
tlotho vshabo (Tuesday) => ???????????????? ??????????????
arb'o vshabo (Wednesday) => ???????????????? ????????????????
Hamsho vshabo (Thursday) => ???????????? ????????????????
'ruvto (Friday) => ????????????????????
shabtho (Saturday) => ????????????????

The plural for shabtho is => ?????????????? or ??????????

matay 27:62 => ?????????? ?????? ???????? ?????????????? ?????? ???????????? ???????????? ?????? ???????? ???????????? ?????? ????????????
Here it is saying that they met on the next day which is after Friday ('ruvto).

marqos 15:42 => ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????????????? ???????????? ?????? ????????
Here it says that before the beginning of the shabtho, when it became evening on Friday ('ruvto)

yuhanon 19:14 => ?????????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???????? ?????????????? ???? ????????????
Here the word 'ruvto (????????????) is used in mean "it was the eve of pesHo"

matay 28:1 => ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????? ???? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????? ?????????? ???????????? ????????
Here the word shabtho is in the singular.
And also we have a clear reference to Sunday.

yuhanon 19:31 => ???????????? ?????? ?????? ?????????????? ?????? ?????????? ???? ???????????? ???????? ???????? ???? ???????????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ???? ???????????? ?????????????? ???????????? ?????????? ?????????? ???????????? ????????
Lets analyse what was really written here:
Because it was on Friday => ?????? ??????????????
Because the day of shabtho was about to start => ?????? ?????????? ???????? ????????
For the day of the shabtho is great => ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??????????
-Again here the word shabtho is singular and makes no reference to the High Sabbath, but rather shows the reverence of the Jews for the Sabbath.

In yuhnanon 19:42 => here again the word shabtho is written in the singular (????????)

In relation to Leviticus 26:2:
-The Peshitta OT, doesn't mention Sabbaths, but rather commandments (??????????????)
-The tri-linear Targum on peshitta.org mentions Sabbaths, and spells it as ??????????

In relation to Leviticus 26:2:
-The Peshitta OT, mentions Sabbaths, as ??????????

So in both the above Leviticus examples the plural for Sabbath is spelled differently than the singular for Sabbath. Matay 28:1 wrote it in the singular.

And now lets take the events of luqo 24:21 which happened on the same day of the resurrection and where they say that it has been 3 days from the crucifixion (i.e Friday during the day, Saturday During the Day, and Now Sunday during the Day) (???? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ??????)

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun
Reply
#12
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So you don't see a plural "Sabbaths" in the Aramaic at Matthew 28:1, but it is in the Greek.... Interesting.

If your position is the correct one here, then can the below passages be harmonized if there were just one Sabbath during those three days?


When Y???shua was buried near sundown on the day of the Passover, "Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary" Watched the burial. Matthew 27:58-61.

Immediately after the burial, Luke says: "And that day was the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on" (Luke 3:54).

The day after this Sabbath the women bought spices, Mark 16:1.

Luke tells us that the women, after preparing the spices, " . . . Rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment" (Luke 23:56).

The traditional interpretation makes Mark and Luke contradict each other.

In Mark 16:1 we are informed that the Sabbath was past when the spices were purchased. the word "Had" is inserted in the English translation without any authority from the Greek text.

In Luke 23:56 we are told that the women prepared the spices and ointments, and rested the Sabbath day.

If Y???shua lay in the tomb on one Sabbath only, Mark and Luke contradict each other. But if He lay there two Sabbaths having a workday between them, then Mark and Luke harmonize to perfection.

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Reply
#13
shlomo Thirdwoe,

I don't see the contradiction that you're talking about between Mark and Luke:

A) Many women watched the burial at the catacomb
(marqos 15:40 => ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????? ?????? ???????????? ?????????? ???????????? ??????????)
(marqos 15:41 => ???????? ?????? ???? ???????????? ?????????? ?????? ???? ???????????? ???? ???????????????? ???????????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??????????????)
(luqo 23:49 => ???????????? ?????? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ????????)
(luqo 23:55 => ?????????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ???? ?????????? ?????????????? ?????????? ???????????? ???????????? ????????)
B) Once the Sabbath started approaching they returned home
(Here we don't know exactly who among the women went back and prepared the incenses and spices prior to the Sabbath)
(luqo 23:56 => ???????? ?????? ???????? ???????????? ???????????? ?????? ?????? ??????????)
C) Once the Sabbath had ended two of the women purchased spices and went to the catacomb
(Here it indicates that Mariam Magdalitha and Mariam, (the mother) of Jacub and Shaloom didn???t have any spices, and waited until the end of the Sabbath to buy spices, and then came to anoint him.)
(marqos 16:1 => ?????? ???????? ???????? ???????? ?????????????? ?????????? ???????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????????? ????????????????)
(Also notice here that these women only bought spices and not incenses)


(A) speaks about all the women that were there in general, (B) speaks in regards to what some were doing, and © specifically targets the above mentioned two women.

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun
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#14
I have booklets written about 50 years ago by Herbert W. Armstrong of the so-called Worldwide Church of God called "The Crucifixion Was Not on Friday" and "The Resurrection Was Not on Sunday" that cover this sign of Jonah issue exactly as it has been discussed in this thread. This is not a new idea. Armstrong concluded that the crucifixion was on Wednesday afternoon and the resurrection was 72 hours later on Saturday afternoon. When the women came to the tomb the body was long gone.

When I met with Lamsa (about 1970) I specifically asked him about Armstrong's theory, and he debunked it. As I wrote before, he said that in the eastern view of days and nights each portion of a day is counted as a whole day. Also he said that in first century Jewish speech the "preparation day" was exclusively used to describe Friday.

Otto
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#15
...

Otto, do you also accept that since a Friday evening to Sunday Morning period of time lacks a 3rd Night, that the darkness that came over the land from 12 noon to 3pm should be counted as one of the 3 Nights as has been proposed to make the Sign fulfilled?

Also, is the Aramaic word for our Friday and our Sunday mentioned in the Gospels, or is it always like the Greek, where it says "the 1st day of the week" and "the preparation day". Wondering if it gets any more specific than that in the Aramaic Language.

...
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