Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Here's Some Greek Primacy Proofs To Tear Apart
#1
Hello there akhi!

I have recently come in contact with a Bible dictionary called ???The Temple Dictionary of the Bible???. There is a section within it called ???The language of Palestine during the time of our Lord.??? In it there are many so called proofs that Greek was the main language during the time of Christ. Some of their arguments have been successfully refuted on these forums, but others however, I have not seen dealt with.

I myself am an Aramaic primacist, but would like answers to these so called scholarly proofs. There are quite a few of them and I will number them for you all. Have fun tearing them apart. Indeed, some of the very evidences of Peshitta Primacy are being refuted in these statements.

BTW, if you want to read the complete section in the Temple Bible Dictionary or would like to browse or download it free, go here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://books.google.com/books?id=V31tAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+temple+bible+dictionary">http://books.google.com/books?id=V31tAA ... dictionary</a><!-- m --> or you can do a Google search for it.

Also, when you respond to some of these statements, please include the number of the question. It makes it easier for me.

External Evidences

1. ???Most [scholars] admit that the country was essentially bi-lingual, using both Greek and Aramaic. Hence the question becomes narrowed down, and, as it is admitted that Greek was known by practically all the inhabitants, it really resolves itself into the question of the relative predominance of the two tongues???which was the most generally used? One method of approaching this question is to endeavor to discover what was the condition of things in neighboring countries. The country in the nearer East of whose history and habits we know most at his period is Egypt. In that country Coptic had been almost entirely dispossessed by Greek. It is true [that] sacred proclamations were engraved in ancient Egyptian, both in hieroglyphic and cursive characters, but these in the days of the Ptolemies and the Caesars were always accompanied by a Greek translation???which is a thing that would have been needless had it not been that the majority of the inhabitants had ceased to understand easily the ancient tongue of the country. This is confirmed by the fact that the great mass of the papyri found recently dating from the reigns of the later Ptolemies are in Greek. These are not merely literary remains, copies of the works of Greek and classic writers, but private letters???letters even of schoolboys.??? So in essence, they use this to describe what happened in Israel under Roman dominance and culture.

2. ???Regarding Cilicia: ???Formerly, in the days of the Assyrian ascendancy, whatever may have been the primitive language of Cilicia, Aramaic had become that of common use, as we learn from the Sinjirli inscriptions. This, however, had been totally dispossessed by Greek centuries before the days of our Lord???s earthly life. In the third pre-Christian century the great lights of the Stoic schools were from Cilician, and they all wrote in Greek, and a Greek university was set up in Tarsus. In the neighboring island of Cyprus all the inscriptions except the very earliest are in Greek. Again, inland in Lycaonia, Greek was the language in common use; in this the apostles addressed the inhabitants, and in Greek they professed their faith in Christ [Acts 14:11-12].???

3. ???Although the evidence is yet scantier of countries to the east of Palestine, yet even here, where Aramaic had a much stronger hold, there is evidence of the prevalence of Greek. From the banks of the Euphrates philosophers came to teach in Athens. More of evidence than avowed and serious philosophers is Lucian, the Voltaire, the most marked and influential writer of Greek, yet a native of Samosata in the center of the Aramaic-speaking district. Earlier, in the end of the first Christian century, is the Assyrian sophist Isacus, whose eloquence in Greek is commended in the highest terms by Pliny. Juvenal refers to him: he must have early been in the habit of speaking Greek to have become so copious and accurate in its use.???

4. ???In Palmyra, although laws were proclaimed and engraved in Aramaic, as we know from inscriptions, even in regard to municipal dues on carts and carriages a Greek translation had to be appended, as if the ancient tongue was not understood by the common people.???

5. ???Nearer to the land of Israel was Phoenicia, and we find the Syrophoenician woman called a ???Greek??? [Mark 7:26]. These things being so, the a priori probability is very great that it was in Palestine as in the neighboring nations. Indeed, had this not been the case, classic authorities would have adduced this peculiarity as one of the many in which the Jews were ???contrary to all men???.??? I have heard this argument answered before, but I don???t quite remember the outcome.

6. ???All over Palestine were Greek cities, cities that prided themselves on their Hellenic culture and Hellenic civic rights. There was Decapolis???Of these [cities] the majority were either in Palestine proper or on its immediate borders. Besides these, there were cities in the Shephelah that claimed also to be Greek, as Raphia, Anthedon, Jamnia, Joppa, Apollinia, Caesarea, Stratonis, Dora, and Ptolemais. There were other cities, such as Samaria, Gaba and Sepphoris that were Hellenised. Justin Martyr belonged to the first of these, and he was essentially Greek; he seems to have known neither Hebrew nor Aramaic.???

7 ???All of these [cities] (mentioned in Question 6) had mints, and were allowed to coin copper and silver money. On these coins the inscriptions, even far on in the Roman period, are in Greek. As to the cities of the Decapolis, the present writer, int eh course of a couple of days stay in one of them, Gerasa (Jerash), turned up scores of Greek inscriptions but never saw one in Aramaic. This was the case, although not a few of the names occurring had Semitic elements. The inhabitants of these cities spoke Greek and prided themselves on this. These cities were the markets of the surrounding country. This would constrain even the country people to master Greek also.???

8. ???The territory of Tyre and Sidon, and that of the Syrian kingdoms or governments, all predominantly spoke Greek, and with these there was a constant unrestricted intercourse on the part of the Jews. This would necessitate and imply a very general knowledge of Greek among the Jews.???

9. ???A slight contributory evidence of the prevalence of Greek may be found in the number of Greek words in the Mishna, and the nature of them. Matters connected with war and civil government are designated by Greek terms; thus the provincial governor was called begemon and his province begemonia. An army was estrafia, war polemos, pay opsonia. The rulers of a town were called arche collectively. Even the most essentially Jewish council, the Sanhedrin, derived its name from sunedrion. Even the reserved right to recall a loan without reference to the Sabbath???even this specially Jewish arrangement???was known by the Greek name prozebul. Further examples include trande and commerce, dress, account books. These examples???a selection from a multitude???are drawn, of course, from the Mishna, which was not committed to writing for nearly a century and a half after our Lord???s crucifixion, yet the number of them occurring in a work devoted to purely Jewish questions, written by those who boasted themselves on their Hebrew purism, exhibits the extent to which in the last quarter of the second century, Hellenism had permeated Jewish conversational language. This implies that the process was not recent; the writers of the Mishna would have avoided everything recent that related them to the Greeks. It really meant that these rabbins were obliged to use these words if they would be understood.???

10. ???Connected with [other proofs] is the number of purely Greek names we find in Josephus. Although the sons of Mattathias and his grandsons all bear Hebrew or Aramaic names, his great-grandsons, the sons of John Hyrcanus I., all bear Greek names???Aristobulus, Antigonus, Alexander. With the exception of John Hyrcanus II. and his grand-daughter all the later Asmonaens bore Greek names. Although the Herodians were anxious to commend themselves to the Jews, their subjects, they all bore Greek names except Pasael, the brother of Herod the Great.??? This is an interesting point, if the Jews had any animosity towards the Romans, why would they name their children after them?

11. Further, we know that the process of Hellenisation had not only begun but had been carried a considerable way before the time of the Maccabees. The younger Jews, to the horror of their fathers, became addicted to the games of the Palestra: and the drama too was introduced; for this Philo is our evidence. In their eagerness for the games the younger Jews were even ready to obliterate the covenant sign of their Judaism. Of course there was a reaction when Epiphanes attempted to hasten the process and Hellenise their religion???then the Jews resisted. Still in everything else the process of Hellenisation may be supposed to have gone on, as proved by the general use of Greek names and the eagerness with which Judas Maccabeus strove to find allies among the Greek republics even while fighting with the Grecian forces of Ephphanes.

Internal Evidences

12. ???[Acts 2:8-12] Prof. Roberts has dwelt on the phenomena of Pentecost. While they all heard in their own tongue ???in which they were born??? the wonderful works of God, they must have had a common tongue to express their wonder, and this must have been Greek. One point he does not note, that Greece is the one country the language of which is not represented. No Greek says that he hears in his own tongue the wonderful works of God???because he was being addressed in Greek, as every one expected to be: that was regarded as a marvel. Peter, then a fisherman, declared unlettered, yet spoke Greek.???

13. ???But from the Gospels our principal proofs must be drawn. We find only three instances in which our Lord used Aramaic. When He addressed Jairus??? daughter and recalled her to life He said, ???Talitha qumi??? [Mark 5:41]. Why is that instance singled out? If our Lord was in the custom of speaking Aramaic there was no reason in mentioning this fact. If, however, He was not so accustomed to do, then we have a revelation of tender consideration; the little girl is awakened from the sleep of death in the very same words in which she had been often awaked by her mother or her nurse. The next is Mark 7:34???Ephphatha, ???be opened.??? Here there was a suitability in causing the man who had been till now deaf to hear first in the home language of Palestine. The last instance is the most sacred of all, the cry upon the cross, Eli, Eli, lama sbachthani. This is natural; many instances there are of men returning to the language of childhood in the article of death.???

14. ???We have mentioned the numerous Greek names to be found in Josephus, and that the seven deacons had all Greek names. We find further that two of the apostles had Greek names, Andrew and Philip. Another has a name that is at all events half Greek???Bartholomew???Bar Tolmai, the son of Ptolemy. Of those with whom our Lord came in contact was the blind beggar at Jericho, Bar Timaeus: that too is a Greek name. Simon of Cyrene, whom the soldiers compelled to bear the cross, certainly has a Jewish name, but his two sons have foreign names, the one Greek and the other Latin, ???Alexander and Rufus.??? The ruler of the Jews, the second vice-president of the Sanhedrin???if we may rigidly render the title our Lord gives him, ???the Master of Israel??????had the Greek name of Nicodemus. We see that all classes, rulers in the Sanhedrin, beggars by the wayside, oridinary tradespeople, had Greek names; this proves the great prevalence of them.

15. ???When the Greeks desire to be introduced to Him (Jesus), He continues His discourse about their coming???there is no evidence that there was any change [in the language spoken] [John 12:20-21].???

16. ???Jesus quoted from the Septuagint, therefore for He must have understood and spoke Greek to His audiences when He quoted the OT.???

17. ???There are, however, other arguments: the most important is the fact that though Josephus wrote his history first in Aramaic he translated it into Greek, and when he did so he got the assistance of friends. From this it has been argued that his knowledge of Greek was rudimentary. But a little thought will remove that idea. In regard to our own language there is a very considerable difference between literary English and the colloquial English which we speak and which we use in our ordinary correspondence. Still greater was the difference between the Greek which was spoken and familiarly written in Egypt and probably in Palestine, and the literary style of those who made Thucydides and Xenophone their models. Ex: When Dr. Livingstone returned from his first discoveries in Africa, he got a literary friend to put his journals into literary form.???

18. ???One incident that tells most strongly against the view I am inclined to adopt is the interview of Claudius Lysias with Paul [Act. 21:37-38], especially its opening sentence, ???Canst thou speak Greek???? If it stood alone, it would have great weight; it, however, is part of a considerable narrative. Immediately before he put his question to Paul, Lysias had demanded of the multitude who he was and what he had done, ???and some cried one thing and some another among the multitude; and when he could not know the certainty for the tumult, he commanded him to be carried into the castle.??? Here it is clear the multitude understood the chiliarch???s question and he understood the language of their answers, but the tumult hindered him from uniting all the conflicting statements into a comprehensible whole. Everything proves the captain of the garrison spoke Greek. It follows thus that his question applied merely to the individual in question???the Egyptian???who was known to be ignorant of Greek. It proves nothing as to the spread of the knowledge of Greek among the Jews.???

19. One question for myself is: ???Did Pilate speak Greek or Aramaic to Jesus in John 18:33-34?

Thank you all for your contributions and your help! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

I eagerly await your responses! <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: -->
Blessings,
John
Reply
#2
Hi.
Why can't I open the replys to this file? I am very interested in the issue.
Yours,
Bob hartley
Reply
#3
no one answered yet. I guess the original post was too long for anyones' attention span. I am, unfortunately, unable to answer questions like these.
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
Reply
#4
Hi, I have a book called ' Christ in history' it has letters from pilate and his wife. 'The writer and translator discovered ( translated by D.Niclici) documents in england and from Italy from the archives of Rome. There is a letter also ' the death sentence of Christ' found in the town of amalfi in italy in 1509, written in hebrew by pontius pilate.
For those that know history at the beginning it says ' In the seventeenth year of the government of the invincible monarch, the caesar and Roman Emperor Tiberius, 201 years after the Olympiads: in the beginning of the five thousandth year after the creation, in the 4147th year according to the Hebrew calendar, and the 4037th year , according to the English reckoning, and 784 years since the foundation of Rome, 580 years since the liberation from Egyptian slavery....'
In the letter from pilate's wife ' ..with bound hands and clothes torn by blows He had suffered, and with a blood-covered forehead, Jesus of Nazareth, calm and undisturbed, stood before him (pilate). No sign of bitterness or fear were noticeable on His face. He was quiet like an innocent, and peaceful like a lamb. ............the uproar increased every minute. I have never heard such a noice in the Circus, nor have the rows in the forum ever given me such an expression. Nowhere was a single trace of calmness to be seen save in the face of one man only-that of the victim. ....Beating, jeering , the general scorn, and the imminent death as martyr -nothing could darken His divine and radiant face. These eyes, which gave Jairus's daughter life again, looked at His tormentors with an indescibable expression of peace and love ..'
Reply
#5
also from Pilate's wife Claudia Procula to her friend, Fulvia Romelia '....the time came to retire:but when I laid my head on the pillow to find sleep, a mysterious force suddenly took possession of my mind. I saw Jesus, appearing as she (Salome) had described their God. His face shone in majesty like the sun. He flew on cherub wings and a fiery flame executed His Orders...It appeared that He was ready to judge the people assembled before Him. With One gesturee He separated the righteous from the wicked. The first, the righteous were raised by Him to the great eternity of divine salvation, but the second were thrown in a fiery sea; in comparison with which the fires of Erebus and Phlegethon are nothing.When this heavenly judgement took place and attracted the attention of the people, He showed them His wounds with which His body was covered, and said with a terrible voice: ' Give me back my blood which I spilt for you!' Then those unhappy men asked the rocks and the mountains of the earth swallow and to cover them (revealtion 6-16,17). In vain had they formerly felt secure from sufferings, and in vain they protected themselves with the eternal and insurmountable illusion. They perished. What a dream, or better, what a revelation !....'
Reply
#6
sean Wrote:in the beginning of the five thousandth year after the creation, in the 4147th year according to the Hebrew calendar, and the 4037th year , according to the English reckoning,
no such thing as english reckoning at the time of pilate. Where did you find this text?
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)