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a question, possibly for bauscher...
#1
Sh'lama-Shalom,

i have been poking around a couple of interlinear versions of the peshitta and came across a head-scratcher in Yochanan 1:1 in Bauscher's Interlinear (which i'm actually learning some cool-zedek things in, i might add). it is a translation issue...

(The Word) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Flm[/font] (had been) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0wh[/font] (existing) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Yhwty0[/font] (In the Origin) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]ty4rb[/font]
(God) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0hl0[/font] (with) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]twl[/font] (had been) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0wh[/font] (existing) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Yhwty0[/font] (Word) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Flm[/font] (& that) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]whw[/font]
(Word) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Flm[/font] (that) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]wh[/font] (was) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0wh[/font] (Himself) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Yhwty0[/font] (& God) [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0hl0w[/font]

as one may have gathered, it has to do with [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Yhwty0[/font].
as i have highlighted in the blue, it is rendered as "Existing" twice, and then as "Himself".

i am wondering, from anyone, is "Existing" to "Himself" a legitimate translation/interpretation for [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Yhwty0[/font] ? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->

i am wondering, From David, how this difference in translation/interpretation has come about. "Existing" and "Himself" have no correlation, at least in Hebrew. <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh -->

i do not ask this in order to point out any errors, if there are any at all. it is a sincere question from sincere motives <!-- s:inlove: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/inlove.gif" alt=":inlove:" title="In Love" /><!-- s:inlove: -->

B'Yeshua M'shicha,
Yochanan
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#2
shlom lokh oH Yochanan,

The word "itaw" in this case should be formed with "wo" => "itaw-wo" to mean "was" in all three cases.

"itaw" takes the place of a noun => "he is"
"wo" is in the past tense => "he was"
Together (i.e. when following each other) => "was"

I would translate the three sentences as follow:
In the begining was the Word.
And that Word was with God.
And God was that Word.

push bashlomo,
keefa bar morun
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#3
Yochanan:

What are "cool-zedek things"? Does this refer to "justice"?

Otto
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#4
Shlama Yochanan,

I think it just has to do with context. Abudar's translation works just as fine, the only difference is that the word "himself" used in English has more of an emphasized feel. The three lines work like this:

A is B,
B is C,
therefore, C is B.

The "himself" kind of works like a "therefore" in this sentence, rather than just "A is B, B is C, C is B" which is a little bland to read in English.
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#5
Sh'lama-Shalom Every One <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

thank you for your replies. i was wondering about it because of certain implications that could be derived from the interpretation (not translation necessarily) of this using "himself". honestly, i like the interpretation of "himself" because of this implication that i have in mind.

Quote:Re: a question, possibly for bauscher...
by ograabe on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:01 pm

Yochanan:

What are "cool-zedek things"? Does this refer to "justice"?

Otto

Sh'lama-Shalom Otto <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
no, it doesn't have anything to do with "justice". it's a "Heblish" term. Heblish is a mixture of Hebrew and English in a slang manner, though not as proper as Ladino (Sephardic) or Yiddish (Ashkenazic). the way it is perceived as a word is like this this:

"Cool" ~ we all know what this means <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
"Zedek" ~ anglicized for the Hebrew Tzedek, meaning "Righteous". in english, "Righteous" as a slang statement also means "Cool", as in "Righteous dude!" (think of Fast Times at Ridgemont High 1982) lol

also, "Cool" sounds similar to the Hebrew "Kol", meaning, "All", and thus "Cool-zedek" sounds like "Kol Tzedek" which, in a roughly improper grammatical manner of speech, would mean "All Righteous"; though there is always "Ha Kol B'seder", which is where you get the term "Copasedic" (spelling may be wrong for that). it's not like the thing most Messianic types like to do by throwing in a Hebrew word here and there in their daily conversations (not that there is anything wrong with that ~ you should see the looks of puzzlement i get when i say "Sh'lama-Shalom" in synagogue <!-- s:crazy: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/crazy.gif" alt=":crazy:" title="Crazy" /><!-- s:crazy: --> lol). we were doing this sort of thing since we were kids <!-- sConfusedigh: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sigh.gif" alt="Confusedigh:" title="Sigh" /><!-- sConfusedigh: -->

another favourite is "Shalomie Homie" <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> i have everyone in synagogue saying that lol

and about the things i am learning that are cool-zedek, it's mostly the information i am finding in his notes. i am also looking forward to getting my mitts on M.A.R.I. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile --> i have come to the understanding that there are all sorts of notes and stuff in it.

Much Love and Blessings in Yeshua <!-- s:inlove: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/inlove.gif" alt=":inlove:" title="In Love" /><!-- s:inlove: -->
Yochanan
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