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God Did NOT Die
Shlama All,

Gentlemen, you have ignored the scriptures I posted and refuse to deal with them. God was born and God had to die. That is what it says.
Deal with it.

Andrew, your view of Yeshua is sheer blasphemy from Hell. You are saying He is a man indwelt by God.
Scripture plainly states many times that He is the Creator of the universe- Yahweh Elohim.
If I believed what you believe I would throw my Bible in the trash and never preach again nor put any stock in anything in The Bible.

Yeshua did not say he was the most Spirit filled man to ever live, though He certainly was that; He said "I AM" God 25 times in John's Gospel alone-"Ena na", which indicates Divine speech 97% of the 200 times it occurs in The Peshitta OT. He is named "MarYah" 32 times in the NT.

Anyone who says what you say about Yeshua does not know Yeshua at all.

Know I know "what the Hell is the matter with you", Andrew.

Thankfully, you are not an ordained preacher, though I dread to think of the influence your published bilge has on the souls of men, and has even here

As the Word of God seems inconsequential to you and Paul and you are above being corrected by scripture, I cannot continue as a member here.
Please delete me from the membership and the link to my web site and forum. I cannot in good conscience continue to fraternize with you, since you do not
believe in MarYah Yeshua Meshikha or in the scriptures (Peshitta or otherwise) and I must separate myself from such apostasy.

I hope others here will see this clearly as a scriptural position and mandate on my part. I am very saddened and grieved by what Andrew has written above, but I believe it reveals his true heart and mind. I know He has stated previously differently about Yeshua. I also know that years ago he expressed pretty much what he just wrote again above-"Yeshua is not YHWH"; He is the greatest man who ever lived or will live.

Ladies and Gentlemen, he is saying Yeshua is a Man, and no more!

Is that what you expect from a Peshitta Bible scholar and translator?

I am stunned! My mind is reeling right now since reading Andrew's post.

Paul, I appeal to your judgment. Andrew says he agrees with your position. Do you agree with his?

I leave with those of you who know and love my God and LORD Yeshua the following verse I composed this morning:

The Mystery of Righteousness (1 Tim. 3:16)

The Creator of The Heavens and The Earth
The Upholder of all things
The Exceeding Brightness of the Glory of God
The Perfect Image of His Person and Being
Was born in a feeding trough
In a barn
In Bethlehem
Of Judea
Over 2000 years ago

The Angel of Jehovah announced Him to the shepherds:
???Today, The Lifegiver-Savior has been born
I proclaim to you a great joy and Joy to The World.
Find Him in a feeding trough
In a barn
Wrapped in swaddling bands
In David???s Royal City
He is The LORD JEHOVAH ??? The Christ (Messiah)
- (Our LORD GOD and Savior too)!???

Well might the shepherds have said:
???How can God be born? He is The Eternal.???
And found The Newborn God in a feeding trough
Wrapped in swaddling bands.
They told everyone what the Angel said.
???Mary pondered and kept all these words
In her heart???

O??? The Wonder!
O??? The Glory!
Joy to The World!

The ???I AM??? has come to save us all.
Here He is!
A Baby Boy!
His mother said His Name
Is Yeshua (Jesus).

Glory in the Highest
To The God Who takes the lowliest place
And lies down in it.
The Eternal Father
Becomes a mother???s Infant Son.
All Heaven came up to see
And announced His birth
Singing His praises to lower Heaven
And blessings to The Earth

Today the Highest and the lowest
Converge in One Small Child
Born in a feeding trough
In a barn
In Bethlehem

And in my heart.


Dave Bauscher
Akhan Dave,

I don't think we are understanding each other. There seems to be serious miscommunication here.

No one is saying that Meshikha isn't God. He is. And no one is saying that Meshikha isn't man. He is.

The Divinity did not die on the Cross. The Divinity is impassible. The manhood, which He took from us, bled and died and suffered and was tempted. But not the Divinity.

Do you really understand the Divinity to have suffered and have died? If "God" died, then who raised Him?

Yes, of course Meshikha is called MarYah. He is MarYah. But he is also bnai' nasha (Son of Man)

The Hymn above in this thread explains my position perfectly. I'm not adding to it or taking anything away from it, the scriptures it references make it perfectly clear that God did not die and Man did not raise the dead and forgive sins.

Once again, the person of Meshikha is God/Man ..... not God-man. Neither the Divinity was from His mother, nor the humanity from His Father. Each was preserved perfectly in its own Qnuma, in the One Person of Meshikha. Qnuma is an Aramaic word I though you were familiar with, at least conceptually.

It is not possible for Satan to tempt God in the wilderness. What kind of temptation was that, a mockery? A set up? Doomed to fail from the get-go? That is utter blasphemy. It is the humanity of Meshikha that was tempted. What was Satan offering God in the wilderness that He did not already own? What are you thinking? Was Satan really asking God to bow down and worship him? What kind of triumph of will was that? A mockery you have turned the temptation into, that's what. If God, and not our Humanity, triumphed over temptation then it means nothing. Big deal. Woo-hoo. God wasn't interested in all the kingdoms, riches and debauchery that Satan had to offer. Woo-hoo. Great triumph.

Likewise, it is not possible that God bleeds or urinates or defecates or dies or lays in a grave. That is paganism.

I worry about you, brother. Something's changed recently.

I have nothing further to add, my friend.

+Shamasha Paul
Shlama all,

Let's talk about the REAL reason and timing of Dave's rant against Andrew.

Dave is JEALOUS.

Mari/P.E.A.C.E. is on it's way.


The REAL REASON for this vicious attack against Andrew, is Dave's jealously.

And Jealously IS DEMONIC.

I don't really believe that Dave believes a lot of what he's saying, it's just a front for his (Dave's) anger at Andrew, spewing forth from his keyboard, because Andrew is soon publishing Mari/P.E.A.C.E.

I don't believe that this man can be reasoned with, and no one can have a rational conversation with him, until he clearly decides to 'kool his jets' at Andrew. Starting with a real heart felt apology to Andrew for the horrible things that he said about him.

Dave, you are wrong to attack Paul and Andrew as you have.

Paul has tried to reason with you, which is probably more than I would have tried.


It's unbelievable that you can still call your self a Believer.

You ought to be ASHAMED of your behavior!


with the entrance of such a work as Mari/PEACE, such assaults should be expected.

brother Andrew ... take comfort in knowing that Mari has long been anticipated, guarded jealously in the Ruach, watched over by many in prayerful intercession, and its entrance into the realm of the Netzarim will be heralded in the hearts of men with great joy !!

Baruch haShem YHWH
The Theology of the Church of the East has been stated briefly and clearly in the following ???Hymn of Praise (TESHBOKHTA)??? Composed by Mar Babai the Great in the sixth century A.D., a noted theologian of the Church

One is Christ the Son of God,
Worshiped by all in two natures;
In His Godhead begotten of the Father,
Without beginning before all time;
In His humanity born of Mary,
In the fullness of time, in a body united;
Neither His Godhead is of the nature of the mother,
Nor His humanity of the nature of the Father;
The natures are preserved in their Qnumas*,
In one person of one Sonship.
And as the Godhead is three substances in one nature,
Likewise the Sonship of the Son is in two natures, one person.
So the Holy Church has taught.

*Qnuma, is an Aramaic word. The nearest equivalent is the Greek ???hypostasis???, in Latin ???substantia??? and in English ???substance???.

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I think that sums it up beautifully & perfectly.

I see that my view on the Godhead seems to be well inline with both that of the CoE & the Netzarim, so I'm sure I'm on the right track. I think that Isaiah 53 is one of the simplest and clearest explanations on what it means that "God died", it's the "arm of Yahweh" not Elohim in his fullness, so I stand by my view.
Rafa Wrote:Nice exegesis there Christina. I never read that verse on the re-marriage issue and the Samaritan woman in that light. You learn something everyday. Thank you for your insight.

Todah Rabbah Rafa,

I believe that anyone who wants to witness to the Jews needs to have a good grasp on the "re-marriage" element of Yeshua's sacrifice, it has special significance for the lost sheep of Israel. It's really good and joyful news for them, they can return to YHWH, realizing that His death is NOT against His Torah. Keep this one in mind should you encounter those counter-missionaries, as I'm yet to see a believer in Messiah pull this argument out.
[Image: MarEphrem.jpg]
Akhi Paul,

I cannot argue this anymore. I have given scripture showing that God must die to make the New Covenant effective- Hebrews 9; Hebrews 10.
I have shown that scripture says God became a human being.

Andrew says Yeshua is the most spirit filled man that ever was and ever would be; He was indwelt by YHWH, He was not YHWH Himself.

You cannot answer for Andrew.
He wrote:

Quote:But that is not to say Y'shua is just another man--he is the ONLY HUMAN to have the spirit of YHWH dwell fully and completely in him from conception and the only one whom prophecy (Ex 23:20-22, Zech 12:10) said would be the pierced vessel that contained the Qnoma of YHWH. YHWH gave him special life, power, judgment, etc, that no one before or ever again will have, so that when it was combined with perfect obedience to Father YHWH, His sacrifice would be acceptable as an offering

That is heresy. It is a flat denial of The absolute Deity of The Messiah. "He was a vessel that contained the Qnoma of YHWH"?
Every born again believer is a vessel that contains the Qnoma of YHWH. YHWH's Spirit dwells in everyone who knows Him and trusts in Him.

Quote:"God gave Him Life,power,judgment,etc.."

That is not Who He is; you are saying that is what He received. That is irrelevant.

"I AM The LIFE", He said. That is Who He is and What He is.
"I AM The TRUTH", He said. That is Who He is and What He is.
"If you do not believe "I AM God" (ENa na), you shall die in your sins."
"Neither can a man say that Yeshuais LORD Jehovah, except by the Holy Spirit. Note, He is YHWH , not merely "has" YHWH in Him, as in a vessel.

There is an infinite distance between confessing Yeshua has YHWH in Him and confessing that Yeshua is YHWH.

But Andrew spoke his mind and heart, so I am not interested in hearing him modify or qualify his statements to mollify the situation or smooth things over.

I have heard enough and will move on. Everyone seems reconciled to Andrew's view of The Messiah. I am sickened by the whole thing.

Please remove my membership, my forum and my web site link.

I give my blessing to those who Love our Lord and Savior Yeshua.

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema. Maranatha." 1 Cor. 16:22

Oh my this is starting to get ugly!
Shlama to you Dave,

Your attitude is very unfortunate. I went out of my way to disagree respectfully with you. I was very sincere in sending blessing to you, your house and your family and your scholarship of which, I should point out, I have been more supportive of than many others here. I see I wasted my breath and that's sad, but trust me, you have not caused me an instant of discomfort--nor will you ever do so.

Everyone here is a witness to your venom and YHWH will judge between us. It is you who have ignored Scripture, as Akhan Paul has stated, who rose Y'shua up if YHWH died? Have you read Yochanan 10? Next time preacher I suggest you read 1 Cor 13:1-13 and just look at how fast and with how little provocation it took for you to lash out at me personally. Your behavior is shameful to the cloth and the cross. I may disagree with some aspects of Christianity but I have all the respect in the world for it or I would not have been baptized. Yeah bet you didn't know that did you? Baptized and circumcised.

I refuse to engage in any discussion with someone who is determined to call me names and send me to hell. I know Greek primacist preachers who have a better understanding of the saving grace of the Gospel than you do. I witiness to my people but I was saved and brought to Y'shua by a Gentile who has forgotten more about Christian love than you apparently know.

But I wouldn't mind your baseless name calling however if you had taken a moment to understand my view. Since you don't understand, you cannot counter it.

Let me say this now so you can keep your mouth shut: My position on Godhead is the same as the COE. Y'shua is YHWH/MarYah. Y'shua shares the same one undivided qnoma of YHWH. But Y'shua had a human occurrence-qnoma that was resurrected by his Father, as he said clearly in Yochanan 5:25-26. Y'shua has the full measure of YHWH dwelling with him --all attributes--but nevertheless there is a separation within him. Or did you not hear him say, "Not my will, but Your Will be done"? Or "I am nothing without my Father"? Or, "My Father is greater than I. My teaching is not my own, but Him who sent me"? Yes I am paraphrasing for speed but if you say those quotes are not essentially there than I sincerely feel for the flock that you lead.

You translated the same Scriptures I did and refuse to see this foundational truth. Shame on you! You have trampled the cause of Messiah under your feet. You think it's scary I have influence? You don't know me at all. Anyone who knows me knows I have NEVER sought popularity or influence--I don't even let anyone call me "rabbi" when they want to because of Matti 23:8. No what scares ME is that you call out hateful names and act like a rambunctious child and call yourself a preacher. You just couldn't wait for the slightest provocation to condemn me could you?

Translate this: ZIL GEMOR!

Shlama w'burkate--yes I still bless as I rebuke because MY MASTER commanded it. Where's your love preacher???

Andrew Gabriel Roth
Shlama Akhan Dave,

What's going on with you? First, you disappear a couple of weeks ago after the whole "gamla" thing, when I posted the evidence from the lexical work of bar-Bahlul. You swore off this forum, yet to my delight you came back.

Now, all this. All of a sudden these bitter words and baseless attacks, this hatred like we are Shiites and you are a Sunni.

We are all brothers. I can look past the strong hints of theopaschitism in your writing, but please be civil about this.

Agreed Rafa.
Pride & Fear is what is truly ugly...and is what drives the dividing wedge between brothers....

Q: Did any of us come to a complete and perfect knowledge of God and The Son of God and their generation before we were saved, and before we were indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God?

Or did it not matter one bit to God...He saved us in our ignorance and in our sin.... We did not have to understand or work it out beforehand. We did not have to go to school to learn all the correct doctrines before God came to live in us....

Salvation does not come because we have it all figured out. It comes by Faith in Christ. It is God's gift to us, not something we have to work for, before He gives it.

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