Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Victor Alexander's 'Disciples New Testament'
Lars asked about Victor Alexander's 'Disciples New Testament'.

This was the first P'shitta translation that I bought after giving up on George Lamsa's "translation".

Check out this piece by Victor:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m -->

I wrote to Victor Alexander a couple of times, BEFORE I bought his New Testament.

He really IS a member of The Assyrian Church of the East.

He really DOES speak Syriac (which the Assyrians call "Assyrian").

But Victor followed Lamsa by inserting a LOT of HIS IDEAS, instead of just translating.

Any New Testament 'translation' IS going to to have the translators ideas to a certain degree. And THAT'S OK.

But there is CHANGING THE TEXT, which in MY OPINION, is NOT "translating".

For example, Victor called Yohannon's WORD, "Miltha", or in his English: "Manifestation".

I think that this word is TRUE to the Syriac text, but in other places, he used words and ideas, that I believe were foreign to the Syriac P'shitta.

In my OPINION, some of these ideas bordered upon being "New Age".

Did he get this from George Lamsa......or some other study that he did, I just don't KNOW.

I tried speaking with him by e-mail before I bought his book, I wanted assurance that his N.T. would follow "orthodox" (SMALL 'o') Christian ideas, because of what Lamsa had done.

He assured me that his translation WOULD BE TRUE to the ancient Eastern P'shitta text, and to Christianity, especially Syriac Christianity.

Well, he said that, but most of the good stuff in his N.T. is in THE FOOTNOTES, and NOT in the translation itself.

It could be that because I DON'T read or speak Syriac, that the fault *is in my understanding* (or LACK THEREOF), but I don't really think so.

I think that Victor started out on the right foot, but got side tracked somewhere down the line.

His translation is ALL Anglicized English using 'Jesus', 'God' and 'Lord', as well as Anglicized names for all of the Disciples and other N.T. characters.

Again, just as with Janet Magiera, I think that this is a failure of the translator, and is almost cow towing to the American church crowd that just can't imagine a Messiah called "Yeshua" or "Eshoo".

And God forbid that the Disciples names are in Syriac!

I mean the sky might actually FALL! <!-- sCool --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool1.gif" alt="Cool" title="Cool" /><!-- sCool -->

Another thing, the copy that I got was half one kind of paper, and half another kind of paper, and it's like "yellowed" paper, mixed with white paper. I mean WHAT'S UP WITH THAT? <!-- sConfusedhocked: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/shocked.gif" alt="Confusedhocked:" title="Shocked" /><!-- sConfusedhocked: -->

The cover is just thick white paper, that if you hold it alot and your a sweaty person at all, the cover begins to come apart. <!-- s:whaasup: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/whaasup.gif" alt=":whaasup:" title="Whaasup" /><!-- s:whaasup: -->

Lastly, I spent about $35.00 to $45.00 (not counting shipping) back in 2000 to get a copy of Victor's translation.

That SAME COPY is now like $100.00!! Come on Victor!

Give us a break here! PLEASEEEEE.

OK, OK, I'll get off my soap box now, but I'll leave you with THIS:

If your lookin' FOR THE REAL DEAL, the Eastern Peshitta text, go with Paul Younan's Gospels, or The Way International's whole set of 5 books.

I've got EVERY SINGLE Syriac to English P'shitta New Testament that's out there now, and take it from yours truly, those two are the VERY BEST!

Apologies to anyone who's feeling's that I might have hurt here.

Shlama, Albion

P.S. A *FOOTNOTE* on all of this.

If you want my OPINION, Andrew Gabriel Roth has a GREAT DEAL riding on his forthcoming translation, 'MARI', or P.E.A.C.E.

So FEW "translators" have gotten it RIGHT with the P'shitta N.T., it's time that SOMEONE DID!

I mean give us a translation that WE CAN BE PROUD OF, that we don't have to ask ourselves "Is this New Age theology?"

Enough of that's already BEEN DONE!

We're countin' on YOU Andrew, and I really feel that YHWH is behind you, and your Translation, and we're behind you TOO!
Shlama Albion,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on Victor Alexander's Peshitta translation. It was a very entertaining read :-)

I had never really heard of Victor Alexander nor his translation before, so thats why I was curious to find out more. I was hoping that maybe it could be a possible addition to the collection of "inter-linear" translations available in my Peshitta tool at But from the looks of it I doubt he would let me use his translation on dukhrana :-)

I'm not planning on buying his translation, but I will at least bookmark his page, as I saw it contained the translation of a few NT books which could be useful as comparison with other translations if the need arises.

Shlama Akhi Albion and Akhi Lars:
Just a few thoughts. Western Christianity is dominated by Greek thought. It's unavoidable because the Protestant Reformation received from the Catholic Church the Greek New Testament, to the exclusion of the Peshitta. Virtually all of Western of the New Testament scholarship is biased towards the 27 book Greek New Testament Canon, which primarily uses the Textus Receptus. In modern times this bias includes data from the Majority text and Alexandrian manuscripts. Also, the Messianic Jewish Movement (formerly called Hebrew Christianity), of which I have been a part for over 35 years, has not ventured into an Aramaic juxtaposition of the New Testament. The Hebrew T"NK is well represented as is the Greek New Testament. Curiously, the traditional Jewish Prayer Book (Siddur) still couples the original Hebrew/Aramaic "davar/pesher", or "quote and interpretation", retaining the languages that have been used together since the Great Synagogue, when the Jews returned to the LAND from exile in Babylon.
Our LORD Yeshua Meshikha spoke Aramaic, in the LAND, as did all of his talmidim and also all of the community services in various parts of the LAND and Beit Naharain, Adiabene and beyond.
In the West Greek and Latin have dominated through the expansion of the Roman Empire and then the Roman Catholic Church. Today modern English is the language that has been chosen for all air traffic communications throughout the world. This demonstrates the predominance of English, as the de-facto language of communication around the globe. ESL (English as a Second Language) courses are quite popular, in modern times throughout the world.
Might I digress for a moment. It is the deep desire of many English speaking, Aramaic and Peshitta New Testament Primacists to read the Aramaic to English Peshitta New Testament, rather than any Greek to English translation. This challenging task has been done a few times since John Wesley Etheridge's English translation of the Peshitta/Peshitto in 1856. Etheridge's translation is the one that I chose to accompany, line for line, the Khabouris Peshitta text which I transcribed and compiled in 2005. The Khabouris Codex is recognised by many Peshitta Primacists to represent verbatim, the ancient "Apostolic autograph" of the New Testament, before the writing of the Western Five (Second Peter, II John, Third John, Jude and Revelation).
That to say this. The translation into English, of any qualified Assyrian Christian that is fluent in Aramaic, including that of George Lamsa and Victor Alexander is held in high regard because Aramaic is their mother tongue. This doesn't mean that each and every word and phrase of translation will be the precise equivalent of expression chosen by all English speaking Aramaic Primacists. That's impossible because of the plethora of English synonyms and parts of speech to chose from. Greek/English cannot fully express the nuances of Hebrew/Aramaic precisely. They do not share the same roots. Greek didn't appear as a written form till the 7th Century B.C. It's predecessor "Linear B" died out some 400 years prior so Greek stands alone as an independent witness, while hebrew and Aramaic share the same roots. It is these unavoidable differences between the groups of language expressions that is the source of our continuing desire to bridge the gap with one perfect and seamless weld, impossible as that is.
So yes Lars and Albion, if Victor Alexander's translation can be freely obtained and presented on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m --> as a comparative tool it will be well received as such. Also, I'm glad that there is a healthy awareness of the dangers of "New Thought and New Age", as opposed to the more traditional/orthodox representation of the New Testament text received and translated by the vast majority of Western Catholic, Protestant and CoE Churches.

SP Silver
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m -->
Shlama Akhi Albion...

I will certainly do my best with Mari/PEACE and appreciate your support. I have taken your advice in the sense that everything else defers to the final production of my translation. We are still on track for Spring 2008 and I can only pray it helps the folks who have been waiting so patiently for it.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Andrew Gabriel Roth Wrote:Shlama Akhi Albion...

I will certainly do my best with Mari/PEACE and appreciate your support. I have taken your advice in the sense that everything else defers to the final production of my translation. We are still on track for Spring 2008 and I can only pray it helps the folks who have been waiting so patiently for it.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

Shlama Akhi Andrew:
It's with hearty anticipation that many of us patiently await your new translation of the Peshitta New Testament. Having conversed with you throughout these last few years and standing as a witness to your diligence in sound doctrine, I have no doubt that your new translation will be both revealing of Semitic idomatic expression as it will be of sound doctrine. BTW, have you had a chance to do any comparative research between the Khabouris Codex and the Crawford Codex?

SP Silver
Dear Stephen,

Shlama my friend, it's really *good* 'to see' you here!

I wanted to ask if you have actually read Victor Alexander's 'Disciples New Testament'?

If you have, did you find it a bit 'iffy' on some of it's theological meanderings.....sort of similiar to what George Lamsa did?

It seems to me that if I read it correctly, that it *MIGHT* depart from The Assyrian Church of the East beliefs/theology in a few places too.

Perhaps Paul (Younan) might be willing to comment on this as well.

If you'd rather not comment in public, please feel free to send me a PM too.

I hope to hear from you, thanks.

Shlama, Albion
Why does the Disciples New Testament cost so much? I got Rev. Bauscher's translation for less than twenty dollars. Is Alexander's rendering of "Miltha" as "Manifestation" consistent with COE theology?

???????? ?????????? ???????????? ?????? ???? ???????? ?? (Khaburis)
John 1:1 IN the beginning was the Word, [Meltho.] and the Word himself was with Aloha, and Aloha was the Word himself. (Etheridge)

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (KJV)
John 1:2 - ?????? ???????????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ??
John 1:2 This was in the beginning with Aloha.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

?????????????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????????? ???????????? ??
John 1:14 And the Word flesh was made, and tabernacled with us; and we saw his glory, the glory as of the one-begotten who (was) from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Based on John 1:14 "The Word" or Logos in Greek or Meltho in Aramaic was made Flesh and dwelled amongst mankind. The Word is none other than Lord Yeshua. So to rephrase John 1:1 , it will read in this manner

John 1:1 IN the beginning was Yeshua (the Word) [Meltho.] and Yeshua (the Word )himself was with Aloha, and Aloha was Yeshua (the Word) himself.

In conclusion, as long as there is consistency to use the same term or phrase of Miltha or Meltho or Manifestation 3 times in John 1:1 and 1 time in John 1:14, readers can conclude that the Manifestation is in the form of a Person who is called Lord Yeshua. Lord Yeshua is Eloha Himself based on the scripture which was given to Apostle John by inspiration of God.

By the way, is the word for God in Aramaic is Alaha or Elaha or Aloha or Eloha? Can anyone help to clarify on this matter?

<!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

I believe that the Apostle John wrote these words after he was released from exile on Patmos and thus after his seeing the visions on that island in which he clearly saw things the way they really are.

What John is declaring here is that The Father and The Son of The Father are ONE. He is not saying that The Son of The Father is his own Father, but that The Son is the SAME as His Father.

I am Human, my Son is Human.... but he is not me personally... I am greater than he...he came from within me...

God (The Father) is God and His Son (Y'Shua) is God. God from God, Light from Light, Spirit from Spirit.

It is who and what they are.... Divine and infinite beings... They have a true relationship as Father and Son...The Spring & The Offspring. It is not pretend; it is real.

Y'shua prays to God his Father, Worships God his Father.... He does not Worship Himself nor does He Pray to Himself.

Y'shua is the ONLY begotten Son of God The Father.... we are all adopted children...

The whole counsel of Scripture makes this clear.


Forum Jump:

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)