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To Jason
#1
Shlama Jason,

I'm disabled and spend a lot of time online right now, because it's very cold and snowy here in Northern Iowa, where we live.
So consequently, I can answer posts pretty quickly.

First, I'm gonna answer your question about Neil Douglas Klotz.
He's a Sufi, NOT a Christian, or a Messianic Believer.
Sufi's are a sort of mystic branch of the Muslim religion.

Since Klotz writes like a pagan, I'm going to assume that he IS A PAGAN.
Klotz CLAIMS that he writes "The Lord's Prayer" in Aramaic.

That's simply a lie.

What Klotz writes is what HE BELIEVES the Lord's Prayer *should be*.

NOT what IT IS in Aramaic/Syriac.
Paganism and Christianity DO NOT MIX.

Yeshua was a wandering Jewish Rabbi.

He was VERY 'Orthodox', in the sense of what that means today, and He was God's Son, and Our Savior.
He was an 'Chasid'. Look that up in a good Jewish dictionary.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.chabad.org/magazine/article_cdo/aid/222872/jewish/What-is-a-Chassid.htm">http://www.chabad.org/magazine/article_ ... hassid.htm</a><!-- m -->

(This article mentions Kabbalah, and Yeshua definately WAS NOT into the Kabbalah!)

I can't think of an equal English language equivalent at the moment.

Let me discuss George M. Lamsa.

Lamsa came out of the ancient Assyrian Church of the East, and he spoke Syriac, but his views from around the 1940's forward, were polluted by The Unity School of Christianity, and what then was called 'Science of the Mind'.

We would call it 'New Age' beliefs today.

For example, Lamsa changed a lot of the New Testament to reflect HIS VIEWS that demons were merely mental illness.

That's NOT what Eshoo/Yeshua believed, nor is it how He lived.
He frequently cast demons out of people.

I realize that you just ordered George Lamsa's translation, but if it was ME, I'd avoid it.

Victor Alexander is also a member of the Assyrian Church of the East but his translation has problems of it's own, just as Lamsa's does.

I'll SOMETIMES use Victor's translation as a supplement, but it's also unreliable as one's main Bible (or New Testament).

You asked how the P'shitta NT is different than English translations from the Greek (NIV, NKJV, etc., etc.).

As Dave Bauscher says "The Peshitta is only about 1% percent different, but it's A BIG 1%!".

The Syriac P'shitta has rhyme and poetry and a lot of word plays, and we miss ALL of that in a Greek to English translation.

The "roots" of The Assyrian Church of the East are Jewish and so the P'shitta NT is also a profoundly Jewish book.

I would really encourage you to research the Assyrian Church of the East, that's how I first came to the P'shitta NT, long ago back in the 1980's.

You can look at Paul Younan's Peshitta translation right here at Peshitta.org
and see how very different it is from Neil Douglas Klotz' 'The Lords Prayer'.

Just avoid Klotz' works all together, they are pagan, as I said before.

I'm sure that you'll have many many more questions as you read this. There are many fine Syriac scholars here who know A LOT MORE than do I, but if you have questions that I can answer, I'll be glad to try to give it a shot.

Here's a GREAT sung version of 'The Lord's Prayer' in Syriac:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAEIrp4MFBE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAEIrp4MFBE</a><!-- m -->

Shlama, Albion

P.S. Your very Blessed Jason, because for about two plus years, Peshitta.org was hacked to where NO OTHER members could join, but right around Thanksgiving Paul Younan (the board Owner) got it back up and running.

So now NEW people can actually join Peshitta.org once again!
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#2
Thank you Albion soo much for your help! May God Bless you many times over!
What is Shlama? or is there a section on this forum or a website of syriac terms?
What is the diff in the terms "syriac" and "aramaic"? or are they the same?
God bless,
Jason
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#3
Dear Jason,

'Shlama' means 'Peace'.

'Shlama Akhi' means 'Peace (be) unto you'.

Aramaic is an ANCIENT language.

There are several different kinds of Aramaic.

Look at the LEFT hand side of this website.

Feel free to explore it, it goes in depth about Aramaic.

Syriac is A DIALECT of Aramaic.

The P'shitta was written down in the Estrangelo script for us.

The Khabouris Codex is the oldest P'shitta MS that we have, it's from about the 12th Century, but it was COPIED FROM A FIRST CENTURY MS.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://whyagain.com/KhaburisKhaboris/index.php">http://whyagain.com/KhaburisKhaboris/index.php</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com/">http://www.dukhrana.com/</a><!-- m -->

Here's a kool place to learn more Syriac (Assyrian):

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.learnassyrian.com/">http://www.learnassyrian.com/</a><!-- m -->

Meanwhile, check out MORE of Peshitta.org over on your left hand side of the page!

Shlama, Albion
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#4
Dear Jason,

whyagain.com is also NEW AGEY.


Their 'Lord's Prayer' there is also defective.

Durkhana.com is run by Stephen Silver, a member here at Peshitta.org, and he is a Believer in Yeshua.

ALWAYS use the Lord's discernment when dealing with things "Aramaic".

There's A LOT of fraudlent and bogus stuff out there in 'Aramaic-land'.

So.......BE CAREFUL.

Shlama, Albion
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#5
Shlama Jason,

Check out this website:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/JPN-aramaic.html">http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/JPN-aramaic.html</a><!-- m -->

The last version on the bottom of the page.

I *THINK* that it's in a Western Syriac (transliterated) version, and not Eastern Syriac, but it's far more trustworthy than Klotz's "translation" of the Lord's Prayer.

Here's a LARGER version:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.metamind.net/freeprayer1.html">http://www.metamind.net/freeprayer1.html</a><!-- m -->

Peace, Albion
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#6
Dear Jason,

I have one more idea. Long ago I bought David Stern's 'Jewish New Testament'.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-New-Testament-David-Stern/dp/9653590065/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197529450&sr=8-1">http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-New-Testam ... 450&sr=8-1</a><!-- m -->

Now, this is NOT a Syriac to English translation, but it's translated from *the Greek*.

However, it has A LOT of Hebraic sayings within it's pages.

I ALSO bought the audio tapes that are this Jewish New Testament that are READ aloud by Messianic Jew Jonathan Settel. He works for Disney, and has a great reading voice!

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=3590073&netp_id=145550&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=details">http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/ ... ew=details</a><!-- m -->

A LOT of Hebrew SOUNDS much like Syriac. Enough to where if you learn the rudiments of transliterated Hebrew, and hear it spoken, it'll help you greatly to have a beginners understanding of Syriac.

Again, this IS NOT the P'shitta NT, but it could be a helpful tool in your early studies.

I feel like it's helped me understand Syriac a little better.

Christian Book Distributors has these JNT audio tapes on sale for around $36.00 these days, that's about $12.00 less than they usually are.

Food for thought.

Shalom, Albion
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#7
Albion Wrote:Dear Jason,

whyagain.com is also NEW AGEY.


Their 'Lord's Prayer' there is also defective.

Durkhana.com is run by Stephen Silver, a member here at Peshitta.org, and he is a Believer in Yeshua.

ALWAYS use the Lord's discernment when dealing with things "Aramaic".

There's A LOT of fraudlent and bogus stuff out there in 'Aramaic-land'.

So.......BE CAREFUL.

Shlama, Albion

Shlama Albion,

Hope you don't mind me joining the conversation... but I just want to make a small correction to what you wrote :-) Dukhrana.com is actually run and owned by me. However, me and Stephen are working closely together with making his Khabouris Codex transcription available online, and thus a part of dukhrana.com has therefore been dedicated to his work with the Khabouris Codex.

Push pshena,
Lars
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#8
Lars said;

Shlama Albion,

Hope you don't mind me joining the conversation... but I just want to make a small correction to what you wrote :-) Dukhrana.com is actually run and owned by me. However, me and Stephen are working closely together with making his Khabouris Codex transcription available online, and thus a part of dukhrana.com has therefore been dedicated to his work with the Khabouris Codex.

Push pshena,
Lars


Shlama Lars,

I'm sorry about that mistake. To be honest, Stephen may have told me that you were/are the Owner of the website.

I haven't got a great memory sometimes, so, I apologize.

Thanks for correcting my mistake!

Peace in Yeshua, Albion
Reply
#9
Albion Wrote:Shlama Lars,

I'm sorry about that mistake. To be honest, Stephen may have told me that you were/are the Owner of the website.

I haven't got a great memory sometimes, so, I apologize.

Thanks for correcting my mistake!

Peace in Yeshua, Albion

Shlama Albion,

No need to apologize akhi!

Btw, I'm wondering if you could provide me with some more information about the P'shitta translation done by Victor Alexander? You mentioned him and his translation a little earlier in this thread, and I'd like to check out his translation.

Keep up the great posts!

Push pshena,
Lars
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