Matthew 27:52

[distazo]

Peace upon all!

(ps: I'm no native English writer)

I'm wondering, if this view below 'can be defended' using the Aramaic source.

As we might know, matthew 27:52 contains a lot of 'strange' phrases, at least, unbelievable since no other gospel was speaking about 'resurrection of holy ones who went into the city' after Jesus died. It would at least be a good idea to mention -who then- were resurrected!

So most translations make something like this.

52 And the graves were openened, and the bodies of the holy ones were resurrected,
53 and stood up. After his resurrection, those who went to the holy city saw them..

I think, that the base words do allow the following translation. (Before you answer, just read my explanation after that <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> )

52 And the graves were openened and many bodies of the holy ones were exposed,
53 and ejected. After his resurrection, those who went to the holy city saw them...

What really happened? The Women who brought spices to prepare the body of Jesus, had a difficult time to finish the job, since Sabbat at +/- 18:00 started at friday.

The earthquake, just had happened.

Everybody went home, because it was forbidden to work on Shabbat. So the bursted graves were left as is as Jesus body was left alone in the grave as well.

The first day of the week Matthew 28:1, John 20:1 the women tried to finish the job.
Of course, on Saturday as well, _nobody_ traveled, since at Shabbat, it was forbidden (Matthew 24:20) to travel, (at least, they could travel a small distance).
So at Sunday, the travelers, went to Jerusalem and here Matthew noticed that these travelers, on the day of Jesus resurrection, saw the bones of the holy ones.


So, Do you think that Matthew 27:52 and 53 cn be explained based on Aramaic this way? If it does, it is one less laughable thing. Because biblecritics, use these verses such as this to ridicule the gospels.

[gbausc]

Shlama Akhi Distazo,

Three Aramaic words: "Qamu", "Nepaqu" & "Alu" - "They arose", "They came out" & "They entered" , make it plain that your theory cannot be correct. These bodies of the saints entered the city under their own power.
The subject of these 3 verbs is "many bodies of the saints that slept". There is no other possible subject in the Aramaic. A fourth verb comes at the end: "Ethkhazay" , "they appeared" - l 'saggyaa "to many".

Once you start explaining away the miracles, where do you stop?

Next you have to explain our Lord's resurrection in the same way: An earthquake occurred (which did happen), and his body was cast out of the tomb; some disciples carried his body upright between them into Jerusalem and presented him to the others as alive, using ventriloquism to impersonate his voice. The disciples fell for (pun intended) the faked resurrection!

But that is just as believable a scenario as the one you have concocted, Distazo, and they are both absolutely ludicrous!

Usually the attempts at rationalization are much harder to believe than the miraculous scriptural accounts, in my humble opinion, and they certainly make mince meat out of the scripture in the process.

Don't you agree?

Blessings,

Dave

[distazo]

Dave,

I don't explain away miracles, I just don't see any valid explanation, why holy ones were resurrected but nobody else makes mention of this.
The aramaic lexicon, mentions _other_ possible meanings, and I guess that Matthew must have meant the other meanings, that is, not resurrection, but 'eject' the bodies were ejected because of the earthquakes.

I'm not an unbeliever as if the next issue would be to doubt Jesus' resurrection.

Matthew 28:1 explains my case further. EVEN Mariah and the other women, did not travel on Saturday. For jews, it was forbidden to travel on Saturday (between friday 18:00 and Saturday 18:00 Shabbat).

So, the _earliest_ moment, that people would see the ejected bones from the graves, would be on Sunday where travelers, going to the holy city, saw the bones.

Which was a miracle anyway, since the earthquake had happened just around Jesus death, and the Religious leaders did not want other evidence, that they killed the Son of God.

[Andrew Gabriel Roth]

Shlama Akhi Distazio,

I agree with David 100%. There is no other way to interpret this verse other than in the miraculous manner of the resurrection of the holy ones. Your suggestion for an alternate meaning is not even remotely possible my friend. The Gospel statment can be accepted or rejected at face value, but its meaning cannot be denied or diluted.

As for the critics, who cares? We do not measure the Gospel by what disbelievers throw at her. Never. We measure the Gospel by the saving power it brings to our lives, in this world and the next.

This whole Passover Plot junk has been debunked for decades now and I won't even get into what heresies other faiths have suggested which are equally wrong. ("he swooned, but only appeared to die???" I think NOT.)

I particularly can't stand the idea that just because something is only in one Gospel that it can't be true somehow, as if that individual writer did not have his own direct credibility. The people who do this are very selective about what they choose to marginalize and they do not justice to the Scripture or to their scholarship in my opinion. They may, for example, deny the resurrection even though it's in ALL FOUR ACCOUNTS or the Virgin Birth (2 accounts) but most have no trouble with say the blood and water coming out of Y'shua's side, which is only in John's account. So if this event is only in Matthew's account, so what? All that proves is we have four individual writers reporting INDEPENDENTLY, and isn't that exactly what tradition says?

Y'shua has warned us clearly about what happens with blaspeming against the Ruach haKodesh, or attributing his works in the kingdom of YHWH to naturalistic or even Satan's power. Y'shua also said that none come to him but by those whom Father YHWH has called and Rav Shaul has said in 1 Cor 12:3 that no one knows Y'shua is YHWH but by YHWH's Holy Spirit. I judge precisely nothing and no one, but I cannot proclaim the Gospel and not at least make mention of it.

In short, this is NT 101. If anyone chooses to not believe the NT, that is their choice. But what I can't have is the idea that peole say they DO believe the NT and yet ascribe interpretations to it that literally empty the cross of its power. I will speak up against that every time.

Remember the counsel of Scripture, do NOT lean on your own understanding and recall also that YHWH has sent the simple things of the world to confound the wise. Everything that happened to Messiah, including his resurrection and this event in Matthew 27:52, was foretold in Tanakh, so to deny it or any other miracle of his is to also deny Tanakh, the Father and the Son, who is the Living Word. If this sounds Orthodox, it is, and I take comfort that "orthodox" and "Peshitta" basically mean the same thing, "the straight way". Be well and sorry if this osunds harsh but I have to speak out on a core issue like this.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

[distazo]

Brothers,

You are full of faith, but it surprises me how quick you are to measure my faith and even to judge and to say that I might sin against the holy spirit.

Friends, I'm loyal and true to Jesus.
The Father has freed me from the Jehovah's Witnesses cult, and this happened SINCE I started to research the scriptures, especially the Aramaic Peshitta (that you worked on hard!)

So you can imagine, how disappointed I might be, because of your judgement words.

What I did is the same as you did you did not take 'facts' for granted, as the 'Greek' Christanity teaches, but you -research- the scriptures! Should WE or THEY immediately judge you, brothers, for 'sinning against God, the holy spirit' and implying that your faith is low because you did not take the 'facts' of the holy scriptures for granted???

No, what I did, is take -word for word- the aramaic words, and through the Aramaic lexicon, online, I -found- that the bones CAN be ejected because of the ressurrection.

Secondly, Aramaic has -no- comma's and dot's like, like in this sentence.

If one places the comma's at other places in Matthew 27:52-54, it -could- have another meaning.

Lexicon word (13386 ) wqpnw, OaNP,aQO CAN mean 'cast out/eject' so it does not only mean 'GO OUT' (as you translated it)!
Lexicon word (18343) wmq also CAN mean 'establish' so it does not necessarily mean only ''stand (up)'.

Brothers, if you just stop quickly judging my faith but be openminded, I think that Mattew 27:52 might mean something else. This is no blasphemy, or is it?

Your brother in Christ (I hope, that you regard it like that)

[gbausc]

Brother Distazo,

We are not judging your faith, just your Aramaic grammar. "Nepaq" means "go out" in its root Qal form. In its Aphel form "Apaq", it can mean "cast out" (active voice).
In its "Ettaphel" form, it would be passive, "to be cast out", but that form of the verb occurs no where in the NT. The active form "Nepaqw" occurs in Matthew 27:53, which means, "they came out".
The verse before says "Qamu"- "They stood up".Verse 53 also says, "Alu l'meditta qdishta"-"they entered the holy city". These are all active verbs, not the passive forms which would be used to say what you are suggesting.

This is an example of how a little Aramaic knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

I am very glad to hear you escaped the Kingdom Hall and its teachings. I am glad we had a part to play in that. May God continue to richly bless you in the Kingdom and teaching of His blessed Son -our King Jehovah The Messiah. I am very happy for you, as are the angels of God in Heaven

Blessings,

Dave Bauscher

[distazo]

Dear Dave and others,

Thank you for your answer!

Excuse me my stuborness. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> I am certainly not an Aramaic speaker and I 'm thankfull for the fact that you share your knowledge.

If we take it 'AS IS', so the saints, the holy ones, got a resurrection at the moment of the earthquake. It was Friday, right?

So at the moment of Jesus His resurrection, it was early Sunday. Why would the saints wait for nearly three days, to go to the holy city if they got a resurrection?

I just find this text, very spurious <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="" title="Huh" /><!-- s -->


Regards

[gbausc]

Shlama Distazo,

The text does not say the saints were raised and stayed in their graves for 3 days. It says they entered the holy city "after His resurrection".

Is this the only text in the NT you find spurious? Many find the entire NT to be spurious. Why this one passage? Surely you believe in the bodily resurrection of The Messiah.

Dave

[markt]

Greetings again Distazo. I read with interest the discussion on Mat 27 as it has puzzled me often. For instance, what happened to these 'raised' bodies. Many faiths teach/preach that this was the 'way to Heaven'. Of course, we know that the dead sleep until....
What I am intrigued about is your reference to a Friday execution and a Sunday resurrection? It would help me immensely if there are Aramaic proofs regarding 3 days and 3 nights being exactly that and not 'less than that'. Also, Mt 27:59 AND Mt 28:1 is one of the most mis-translated verses ever, apart from the 'replacement' of The Name.The translation 'the first day of the week' is erroneous and it would be just to say, anti-semitic. If even the Greek states 'sabbaton' then surely this is good enough. Once again I would like to know where the Aramaic reads on this?
Blessings from New Zealand.
Mark

[Witnessnbr1]

Shalom y'all, and the blessings of Y'shua HaMashiach to you,
I am just now jumping into the Aramaic translations of things, which has brought me to your board. I noticed the discussion here concerning the 'tombs being opened', and that even the Aramaic does not bring out meaning to this. If I may offer the following...

As you know, the testimony says that Y'shua FULFILLS the Law. In that, there are commands given in Torah that must be or have been fulfilled, for the completion of all things. Y'shua fulfilled, in His death and resurrection, the offerings of the Spring feasts. He was the unleavened bread, He was the sacrificial lamb of passover, AND(this is what many people miss), He was a part of the FIRSTFRUITS OFFERING. It is the Firstfruits offering in the spring that people forget about. The tombs that were opened were indeed resurrected FIRSTFRUITS, those who believed in the coming Messiah, and they were seen by many, because part of the rule of firstfruits is to wave the offering before the people.
Now, how and WHEN did this occur? This is where you have to look at the timeline BACKWARDS, with the truth that He would be 3 DAYS and 3 NIGHTS in the tomb.....literally! We know the women came to the tomb early(dawn)Sunday morning, and the tomb had ALREADY BEEN OPENED. The first day would have started(in our Roman calendar thinking)on Saturday NIGHT. SO, the earthquake had to occur sometime immediately following the sabbath, and at that time, Y'shua along with the firstfruit saints were resurrected.
Continuing the timeline backwards, then, means He was crucified on a Wednesday, and placed in the tomb by Wednesday night. The particular year that He was crucified, both the lunar and solar(roman)calendar worked IN UNISON to complete this fulfillment.
I would also note that, in John 20:17, when Mary recognizes the Master that Sunday morning, He says 'Do not touch me for I have not yet ASCENDED.' The firstfruits offering is always given sometime after dawn. This also means that Y'shua ascended to heaven MORE THAN JUST ONE TIME. Eight days later, He is touched by Thomas.
When you start looking at how Torah is fulfilled, you can see amazing things. And there are amazing things coming up too.
<!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->
Michael

[markt]

Hi Michael, your timeline is very correct regarding the death of Yeshua but can you tell me from the scriptures where they ever refer to "Sunday?'

Mark