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Was Jesus Forsaken On The Cross? (Part 1)
Shlama all,

It's good to see things up & running here again.

The cry of our Lord from the cross is not to be decided by theological doctrine, as some seem to think. It is to be decided by Aramaic and Hebrew linguistics. No one has addressed the OT Peshitta at Psalm 22:1 having wording identical to Peshitta Mark 15:34. The text in Mark is identical with the Peshitta translation of the Hebrew of Psalms 22:1. If Psalms 22:1 is supposed to mean "My God, my God, for this I was spared.", no translator of the Hebrew Tanakh ever saw it that way!

Even Lamsa did not translate The Peshitta of Psalms 22:1 that way!("My God, my God, why have you let me live?") Yet he translates the very same Aramaic words in Mark as "My God, my God, for this I was spared." I must confess, I am amazed that anyone can take Lamsa seriously anymore. He has repeatedly twisted plain scripture to fit his doctrinal beliefs (or shall I say, unbeliefs?). But I will stick to the matter at hand in pointing out his inconsistency. Lamsa seems to be the one who got this "Why have you spared me?" ball rolling.

The text in the Psalms (& in Mark) has no reference to "life" or "living", so "Why have you let me live?" is very loose, to say the least, and quite sloppy, to be candid. Notice also that he makes it a question, not a statement. That question makes no sense whatsoever for The Messiah to be asking when He was not "living", but dying.

Psalm 22 is plainly a prophecy of Messiah's crucifixion. If our Lord was not forsaken, He certainly believed He was. Read the rest of verse 1:
"Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" The Peshitta has: "You have removed my salvation from me, because of the words of my folly." "Arkheq" means , "to depart afar, abandon, forsake, go to a distance, remove, put away, separate". Lamsa translates it "delayed". This was plain deceit on his part. He was clearly a man with a theological ax to grind, and grind he did. In fact, I believe he threw the Aramaic Lexicon into a shredder and made things up as he went, claiming his Aramaic fluency was authority enough to dispense with thousands of years of Aramaic word usage and etymology.
Read verse 2:
"O my God, I cry in the day???time, but thou answerest not; and in the night season, and am not silent." The Peshitta has:"Oh my God, I call you in the daytime, and you will not answer, and in the night, neither will you remain with me." And verses 3-6
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not ashamed.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Our Lord was in despair. He believed He was unworthy of His Father's care.He certainly felt forsaken.

Was this not a prophecy of His crucifixion?

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My Strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of evil???doers have enclosed me; they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may count all my bones; they look and stare upon me:
18 They part my garments among them, and upon my vesture do they cast lots.
19 But be not thou far off, O LORD: O thou my succour, haste thee to help me.

If it was not, there is no such thing as prophecy.

Was He not allowed to feel forsaken on the cross? Was He not allowed to say so?

Damn our theology and pontifications about what is correct and incorrect for The Righteous & Holy One to say and do.

Then Lamsa goes to Mark 15:34 and makes the same sentence translated as a question in Psalms 22 into a statement in Mark:
"My God, my God, for this I was spared."
That makes lemana mean "for this", which it never can mean, and the active verb "Shebaqthani" into a passive (I was spared) which is simply incorrect, and it omits the subject "You", referring to God. Lemana means literally, "to what?, for what?, and is never a simple statement of fact, but a direct question, or at least an indirect question-("I will show to whom he is like." Luke 6:47).
This is a subtle deception, omitting God as the plain subject and Messiah as the object, so as to attempt to obviate the plain statement of Paul in Romans: "He spared not His Son, but delivered Him up for us all." -(Romans 8:32) "Khas" means, "to pity","to spare", "to refrain, forbear". If any Aramaic word means "spared", "Khas" does. No lexicon lists "spared" as a meaning for "Shabaq".Its basic meaning is "to leave".

Who are we to contradict plain scripture? Yeshua was not spared, certainly not by God! And why in the name of Sam Hill would He cry out that He was spared when He was not being spared but delivered over for us all?
The only sense in which He could have been spared is in an unconventional sense. "Spared" has four meanings:
1. to treat with mercy or leniency; refrain from killing, injuring, troubling or distressing; save.
2. to save or free a person from something [to spare someone trouble]
3. to refrain from, omit, avoid using, or use frugally [to spare no effort]
4. to give up the use or possession of; part with or give up conveniently [able to spare a cup of sugar]

Whatever translation is used in Mark should apply to Psalms 22:1 as well, and vice versa. If Psalms 22:1 is a question, so is Mark 15:34. I don't think our Lord was informing His Father of anything. God knows all things. "My God, My God.." indicates something traumatic, especially considering Yeshua always addressed His Father as Abba & Abbi (Father & My Father). Something is wrong, for Him to use this impersonal address.

Whatever the meaning of "Shabaq", the cry from the cross was a question, not a statement.That is certain.

To apply #1 to a statement from a dying crucified victim is an absurdity so great as to nullify the notion as a possibility here.Our Lord knew He had come to die, and that He would be protected until His hour would come.There would have been no surprise about that.
To apply #1 or # 2 would make the statement ironic and almost sarcastic: "So this is why you protected me!"
#3 simply does not work. Yeshua was not avoided or used frugally by His Father.
Which leaves #4 :to give up the use or possession of; part with or give up conveniently.

Which brings us back to "forsaken me" or "left me".

Psalm 22 in its entirety is an exposition on this matter. Everyone ought to read it and think about what it is saying about His suffering and death on the cross.

Thank God He was willing to suffer in His Soul and Spirit as well as in His body and offer them up for sin (Isa. 53:10,11,12).
Thank God He was restored in His Soul & Spirit to His Father : "Father, into thy hands I commend My Spirit."

His cry from the cross was a desperate one, and it was a question.
The Lion of the tribe of Judah roared from Jerusalem (Psalms 22:1, & Joe 3:15,16 15 (ERV) The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.
The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem
; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Am 1:2 And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
Ho 11:10 They shall walk after the LORD: he shall roar like a lion: when he shall roar, then the children shall tremble from the west.

Many blessings,

Dave Bauscher

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Re: Was Jesus Forsaken On The Cross? (Part 1) - by gbausc - 11-25-2007, 02:06 AM

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