07-11-2005, 02:41 PM
I know this is the mistranslation forum, but for me, this language is translated from greek, so yea, it's disapearance from the syriac text is a mistranslation in my view.
This has been one of the more known problem areas in the NT.
It is easy to show a plurality of GOD in the old testament in relation to this section of scripture, actually Dave is able to break it down in the hebrew language to show just how easy it is to see this.
Firstly, there are a couple of sites that list quite a bit of information over what quotes/manuscripts have the section, along with individuals who have done a bit of research on their own.
Here is a site that I found to be pretty thorough in it's listing of quotes/manuscripts:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.1john57.com/1john57.htm">http://www.1john57.com/1john57.htm</a><!-- m -->
Now look at the dates applied here to those quotes/manuscripts. Quite old. One of the problems in modern criticism is the disbelief that they even exist, it seems:
Quite interesting.
Here is a compilation of those manuscripts that have it earlier than that:
That is not all the evidence, but it is enough to provide a bit of insight into this area.
One of the problems with the peshitta text is that none of the manuscripts supposedly have this bit of scripture within 1 John. Western church history is providing a substantial witness here that something was there way back when, but this text has it not. The peshitta crowd claim originality, so what happened in this area?
This has been one of the more known problem areas in the NT.
It is easy to show a plurality of GOD in the old testament in relation to this section of scripture, actually Dave is able to break it down in the hebrew language to show just how easy it is to see this.
Firstly, there are a couple of sites that list quite a bit of information over what quotes/manuscripts have the section, along with individuals who have done a bit of research on their own.
Here is a site that I found to be pretty thorough in it's listing of quotes/manuscripts:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.1john57.com/1john57.htm">http://www.1john57.com/1john57.htm</a><!-- m -->
Now look at the dates applied here to those quotes/manuscripts. Quite old. One of the problems in modern criticism is the disbelief that they even exist, it seems:
Quote:Benjamin Wilson states, "This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the fifteenth century. It is not cited by any of the ecclesiastical writers; not by any of early Latin fathers even when the subjects upon which they treated would naturally have lead them to appeal to it's authority. It is therefore evidently spurious."
Quite interesting.
Here is a compilation of those manuscripts that have it earlier than that:
Quote:1 John 5:7 is found in: Greek manuscript 61, codex Ravianus and Britannicus, it's also in the margins of 88 and 629, manuscript E (735 AD; has Acts 8:37). Likewise, it is found in the old Latin manuscripts Codex Freisingensis (Latin "r", "Beuron 64"; AD *500*), leon 1 (various readings of 1 John 5:7-8; AD 913-923), leon 2 (margin, 930 AD; has Acts 8:37) harl 2 (AD 752), Codex Toletanus (988 AD; has Acts 8:37, 9:5, 9:6), Codex Demidovianus (1150 AD; has Acts 8:37), Codex Colbertinus (AD 1150), Codex Perpinianus (AD 1250; has Acts 8:37), and Speculum (Latin "m" AD *450*, within a century of Sinaiticus and Vaticanus)
It is found in 68mg(mg=margin), 636mg and 918. It is also found in omega 110, 429mg, 221, and 2318. It's in the Montfort MS and Codex Wizanburgens (8th century). It is found in the margin of Codex Ottobonianus (629, 14th century).
It is also found in the Ulmensis manuscript (AD 850), and Codex pal Legionensis (AD *650*). It is found in the German manuscript The Augsburger Bibelhandschrift (2 Cod 3)(AD 1350).
That is not all the evidence, but it is enough to provide a bit of insight into this area.
One of the problems with the peshitta text is that none of the manuscripts supposedly have this bit of scripture within 1 John. Western church history is providing a substantial witness here that something was there way back when, but this text has it not. The peshitta crowd claim originality, so what happened in this area?