11-29-2003, 04:37 PM
Shlama Brother Valentin,
Yes, that is the Bible definition of faith which I quoted in my previous post. It says faith is the evidence !
Therefore we cannot expect to have faith without evidence. There is no such thing.One could say there is faith without seeing, but not faith without evidence.
I was discussing the evidence the children of the Exodus had, not the evidence we have today. They did not have historical evidence. They made history and became the evidence. It was very physical evidence !
37 ?? And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
P+:m db:l Myrbg:h ylgr Pl0 tw0m-ss:k h:tko oom9r:m l0rvy-ynb weoy:w 37
We know that the Hebrew people were fruitful with many children, according to Exodus 1. A very conservative estimate of two children per man and an equal number of men and women would bring the number to 2,400,000. My estimate of 1.5 million was too low. I have little doubt there were over 3 million.
There were many who experienced that miracle and the many other miracles in Egypt.They were changed from slaves to a free nation under God by those miracles and by their obedience to God's word. Faith is action. See Hebrews 11:4-39
I do not say that everyone needs physical evidence; I do say everyone needs evidence. Some people , however, will accept physical evidence and believe.
John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
36 ?? Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did. {Dorcas: or, Doe, or, Roe}
37 And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber.
38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them. {delay: or, be grieved}
39 Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them.
40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
41 And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.
42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
You ask many questions which I have not time to answer. I will say that I reject the idea that the disciples believed the resurrection based on previous faith they had in Him.
Read Mark 16. The disciples disbelieved the women's report that Jesus was risen.
Read Matthew 28:
Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]wwh wglpt0 Nyd Nwhnm hl wdgo yhw0zx dkw [/font]Matthew 28:17
Even when they gaze upon Him they doubt.
Yes , there are some who will not believe the evidence and some who will. We need to look for all the evidence we can. We can never have too much for some folk.
Blessings In Christ,
Dave B
Yes, that is the Bible definition of faith which I quoted in my previous post. It says faith is the evidence !
Therefore we cannot expect to have faith without evidence. There is no such thing.One could say there is faith without seeing, but not faith without evidence.
I was discussing the evidence the children of the Exodus had, not the evidence we have today. They did not have historical evidence. They made history and became the evidence. It was very physical evidence !
37 ?? And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
P+:m db:l Myrbg:h ylgr Pl0 tw0m-ss:k h:tko oom9r:m l0rvy-ynb weoy:w 37
We know that the Hebrew people were fruitful with many children, according to Exodus 1. A very conservative estimate of two children per man and an equal number of men and women would bring the number to 2,400,000. My estimate of 1.5 million was too low. I have little doubt there were over 3 million.
There were many who experienced that miracle and the many other miracles in Egypt.They were changed from slaves to a free nation under God by those miracles and by their obedience to God's word. Faith is action. See Hebrews 11:4-39
I do not say that everyone needs physical evidence; I do say everyone needs evidence. Some people , however, will accept physical evidence and believe.
John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
36 ?? Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did. {Dorcas: or, Doe, or, Roe}
37 And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber.
38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them. {delay: or, be grieved}
39 Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them.
40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
41 And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.
42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
You ask many questions which I have not time to answer. I will say that I reject the idea that the disciples believed the resurrection based on previous faith they had in Him.
Read Mark 16. The disciples disbelieved the women's report that Jesus was risen.
Read Matthew 28:
Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]wwh wglpt0 Nyd Nwhnm hl wdgo yhw0zx dkw [/font]Matthew 28:17
Even when they gaze upon Him they doubt.
Yes , there are some who will not believe the evidence and some who will. We need to look for all the evidence we can. We can never have too much for some folk.
Blessings In Christ,
Dave B