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The Good Shepherd Remained Faithful
Thank you for your important question Distazo. I am very grateful for it because you motivated me to go back to the Peshitta gospel and look at every single instance of  ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ.  Now, any other readers following along, this is the section of my original post that Distazo is asking about:
  • Literal Aramaic text proves harmony: in both Mark & Matthew, the gospel writer first identifies the apostles as ܠܗܘܢ ܕܡܟܘ ܡܟܝܠ ܘܐܬܬܢܝܚܘ  “they sleeping and thereafter who were resting”).  Only then does the gospel writer quote Yahshua, who is instructing his apostles that the end has arrived; and then Yahshua commands the apostles to “rise”.  Yahshua never told them to sleep, not even once.  The grammar proves it.  Indeed, ܡܟܝܠ (“thereafter”) is the operative word here that proves gospel harmony, and its location in the sentence matches many other examples in the bible with this very same word & sentence structure of interjection. See examples: Luke 16:2, John 15:15, Gal 2:20, Gal 3:18, Gal 3:29, Eph 4:28, Heb 10:2. 
I am pleased to report that the answer to your question is that “they” and “to them” work equally well as English translations of ܠܗܘܢ.   Either translation is fine to make the same grammatical point I am making because… in Aramaic, the phrase    ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ  can always be followed by an interjection before the quote, which is why it works as an introduction to a plural setting/subject in these representative examples:
  • John 7:50,  ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ ܢܝܩܕܡܘܤ ܚܕ ܡܢܗܘܢ ܗܘ ܕܐܬܐ ܗܘܐ ܠܘܬ ܝܫܘܥ ܒܠܠܝܐ (“Said to to them Nicodemus, on from them, he who had come to Yahshua in the night…”) then the actual quote begins in John 7:51.
  • Mark 4:35 ܘܐܡܖ ܠܗܘܢ ܒܗܘ ܝܘܡܐ ܒܖܡܫܐ ܢܥܒܪ ܠܢ ܠܥܒܪܐ   (“And he said to them, in that day at evening, let us cross over to the other side.”)
  • Luke 18:1 ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ ܕܝܢ ܐܦ ܡܬܠܐ ܕܒܟܠ ܥܕܢ ܢܨܠܘܢ ܘܠܐ ܬܡܐܢ ܠܗܘܢ     (“And he said to them, and also a parable, that in all times they should pray and not become weary.”) Then the actual quote begins at Luke 18:2.
And these three examples are just from the four gospels.  I’m confident I could find additional examples throughout the Peshitta, and especially so if I included ܐܡܪ ܠܗ in the findings.  But I trust the above three examples are sufficient to prove this grammatical point.

Now, the real proof in my original post is the ‘absence of the imperative tense’ in Mark 14:41 and Matthew 26:45.  For if I have successfully shown that Yahshua is not using command words with 'sleep' and 'rest' (ie., those conjugations are not in the imperative tense), then it categorically supports my reading.  See for example Matthew 13:25, where the exact same conjugation ܕܡܟܘ (“they slept”) is clearly not in the imperative.  See also Philemon 1:7, where ܐܬܬܢܝܚܘ (“are refreshed”) is clearly not in the imperative.  Also Hebrews 10:2 (“they had ceased”) is not in the imperative.  There are zero examples in the Peshitta where those conjugations are in the imperative.  That is why I feel so confident about my reading.

With that said, if any Aramaic scholar or native Aramaic speaker can provide me an example where those two conjugations are used in the imperative, then my reading would then only be a possibility.  But until that time, I think I’ve got this one straight.  I'm actually very very happy about it. I may be just a small voice in this moment, but that’s enough to plant a seed. 

Should that seed grow, I think that the majority reading of doubt will ultimately not prevail because the literal Aramaic text plainly encourages faith and shows 100% harmony in the Peshitta.
Distazo, one of the reasons that I am so glad for your reply is that for my original post, I was just looking at examples of ܠܗܘܢ as an introduction to a plural noun or group or actions, which of course supported my original post quite easily (as that is basic Aramaic). See e.g., Matthew 13:54, Matthew 14:15-16, Matthew 17:3, Mark 3:17.

But  ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ is much more specific and at first glance would seem to support the majority reading (again, if one overlooks the absence of the imperative).  That is because normally if the speaker’s quote does not come directly after ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ, then the speaker is the one identified immediately after ܠܗܘܢ rather than the listener or any significant context. See e.g., Mark 4:11. 

Fortunately, examples like Mark 4:35 and John 7:50 show that the listener and/or setting can be identified in some detail after ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ and before the quote is actually stated.

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RE: The Good Shepherd Remained Faithful - by gregglaser - 02-03-2016, 02:15 AM

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