06-26-2011, 09:37 PM
Dear Brothers,
The AENT is not off alone in left field on this interpretation. Search engines were helpful here... Among many other results can be found, for example:
...Besides those results, also Gill's Exposition makes it clear that this opinion isn't some 20th-century innovation.
Out of context, some might say, but... "These things were not done in a corner." <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s -->
OK. I checked around, googled, etc. and... I find it's really, really easy to see abundant reasons why more and more people might believe that this event was at the Temple, not at some Hotel Pentecost. What's not so easy for me is to find satisfactory reasons why anyone would believe anything else. Maybe I am just not thinking of the best way to turn up the results. Would anyone be so kind as to list them?
For now I must go with the preponderance of the evidence I have seen and say the Assembly of Mshikha had it's Pentecostal beginning in the Temple. I can note that tradition says otherwise but that I can't find good support for it. Anyone who cares to help me out is welcome, because I can so far think of only two "reasons to dismiss" all the evidence for the Temple, and neither compel me:
Let's assume for the sake of discussion that no-one here has "Category B" issues (nevermind that historically "B" is really a very strong part of "A"). Taking B away we have a suspiciously short list. Again, a little help here?
So... for while we're left with only an appeal to tradition, until I find more support for the position that's all I can address. I personally do not find an appeal to tradition compelling on its own. So, I'd like to learn more about that tradition to see for myself how it holds up. How far back does the Cenacle Pentecost tradition go, and how credible is the source? What's the earliest documentation? Do we have a 1st-century Jewish witness, close in time/culture/location? If instead we only find this tradition asserted by far-removed Gentiles, centuries later, how do we know they're doing anything but looking through a glass darkly, trying in vain to explain the Scriptures because they've been set up as Teachers and are expected to teach?
I'm not questioning people's traditions to be an ass (that requires no effort). I'm asking because I all too often run into the mindset that "if it's tradition it's truth", along with the idea that every tradition of a church that calls itself "apostolic" necessarily goes back to the apostles. My family doesn't think that way and it helps cut to the chase to get that out in the open. So...
If we can't assume that all traditions are infallible, dating right back to the apostles, and we can't find a good reason to keep a tradition, and we also have very many reasons against it... what ought a reasonable person do?
EDIT: Reined in a bit to be a little less "over the top". I'm a bit on the Asperger side & don't always catch social complications. Thanks, user called "judge".
The AENT is not off alone in left field on this interpretation. Search engines were helpful here... Among many other results can be found, for example:
- "http://hope-of-israel.org/jerupent.htm"
- "http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Hopeofthe...pter11.htm"
- "http://www.knowingthetimes.com/what-didn...upper-room"
...Besides those results, also Gill's Exposition makes it clear that this opinion isn't some 20th-century innovation.
Out of context, some might say, but... "These things were not done in a corner." <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s -->OK. I checked around, googled, etc. and... I find it's really, really easy to see abundant reasons why more and more people might believe that this event was at the Temple, not at some Hotel Pentecost. What's not so easy for me is to find satisfactory reasons why anyone would believe anything else. Maybe I am just not thinking of the best way to turn up the results. Would anyone be so kind as to list them?
For now I must go with the preponderance of the evidence I have seen and say the Assembly of Mshikha had it's Pentecostal beginning in the Temple. I can note that tradition says otherwise but that I can't find good support for it. Anyone who cares to help me out is welcome, because I can so far think of only two "reasons to dismiss" all the evidence for the Temple, and neither compel me:
- A.) Christian Tradition
B.) Misojudaism/judeophobia
Let's assume for the sake of discussion that no-one here has "Category B" issues (nevermind that historically "B" is really a very strong part of "A"). Taking B away we have a suspiciously short list. Again, a little help here?
So... for while we're left with only an appeal to tradition, until I find more support for the position that's all I can address. I personally do not find an appeal to tradition compelling on its own. So, I'd like to learn more about that tradition to see for myself how it holds up. How far back does the Cenacle Pentecost tradition go, and how credible is the source? What's the earliest documentation? Do we have a 1st-century Jewish witness, close in time/culture/location? If instead we only find this tradition asserted by far-removed Gentiles, centuries later, how do we know they're doing anything but looking through a glass darkly, trying in vain to explain the Scriptures because they've been set up as Teachers and are expected to teach?
I'm not questioning people's traditions to be an ass (that requires no effort). I'm asking because I all too often run into the mindset that "if it's tradition it's truth", along with the idea that every tradition of a church that calls itself "apostolic" necessarily goes back to the apostles. My family doesn't think that way and it helps cut to the chase to get that out in the open. So...
If we can't assume that all traditions are infallible, dating right back to the apostles, and we can't find a good reason to keep a tradition, and we also have very many reasons against it... what ought a reasonable person do?
EDIT: Reined in a bit to be a little less "over the top". I'm a bit on the Asperger side & don't always catch social complications. Thanks, user called "judge".