A Book Worth Checking Out

[Burning one]

Everything is well explained in my thread, "Messiah ben Joseph versus Messiah ben David." Good luck!

okay, i've read it, and i'm still not seeing anything but you taking everything out of context. i also see a very blatant substitutionary sacrifice in your placing Israel's punishment as FOR Judah's. so you have part of the nation making atonement for the other part of the nation... you create some esoteric method of the suffering of a nation somehow being applicable for the salvation of another. you say a person cannot die for another, yet you are advocating the punishing of a nation as being a substitutionary sacrifice for another nation--that's amazing. everything is taken out of context in this regards. but personally, in my dealings with anti-missionaries, they always present seemingly clever methods to circumvent the traditional understanding of the text, and yet when you boil it down to what the text really says, they have no ground to stand on in their positions. this never makes them too happy, and they usually leave. understandably so.

simply put, if you want to play hardball and deal with the issues actually presented in the text, and honor the overwhelming majority view of the rabbonim, you have to discard your sectarian view of who the Suffering Servant of YeshaYahu 53 really is. why? because you aren't being consistent with the text. have some integrity towards the Word, man. that isn't too much to ask. if i sound like a broken record, it is because there is not really any other way to come at this debate until you deal with the issue at hand.

so here's the deal:

• the TN"K does not agree with you on the identity of the Suffering Servant
  the overwhelming majority of the rabbonim do not agree with you
  Christians do not agree with you
  Netzarim do not agree with you

so to me, your position is that of a single person who can't come to terms with what the text or his own people promote, or the people who, some being his own, believe in Messiah having already come, promote, so you've circumvented it by developing a grand scheme that destroys the context of the whole issue, and dishonors the Word within which you are interacting. you bring no argument to the table other than your own personal take on the matter. and that is okay, to a degree. you're more than welcome to have your own opinions, but if you want to be taken seriously ANYWHERE where individuals actually value what the text really says, you're going to have to abandon your sectarian position.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy