Gawrah again and again

[Yochanan5730]

Shalom Yochanan,

Shalom Paul,

please do not consider the following as rude, i was trying to ask a simple yes/no question concerning the scholarship behind Gaw'rah meaning "father", specifically for Mattai 1:16, as to whether or not this is a modern concept (or discovery), or if there is COE teaching much older than the last 100 years. and should the answer have been yes, i would have asked for some references.

i am all for Gaw'rah meaning "father", it makes better sense to me. you see i have a Beyth Mid'rash to present these things to, and for them, it is shaky ground to present something as authortative if there is no certain tradition to confirm or deny it ~ specifically, in the matter of Gaw'ah meaning "father" for Mattai 1:16, from the COE.

now, for what you have presented...

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See the slang terms in action in Jeremiah 31:22:

???How long will you go here and there, O faithless daughter? For the Lord has created a new thing in the earth - A female [ neqva ] will encompass a male [ gever ].???

Why are the terms used above not Ish and Ishah ? The normal words in Hebrew for "man" and "woman"? For instance, see Genesis:

"This one at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one shall be called Woman (Ishah) for from Man (Ish) she was taken".

Why do I say these terms used in Jeremiah are slang, Akhi?

Well, to start off ... the root of Neqva~Neqwa (n-q-w) in both languages literally is a verb which means "to make a hole/to pierce." Pretty weird, huh? The term of course emphasizes the physiology of the female.

Likewise, the term Gever~Gowra in both languages is also used to refer to a "rooster" - guess why? Again, it's a slang word. "Gever" also happens to be a word that in Rabbinic Hebrew is used to refer to the male physiology.

Before I go on.....So why are these two slang terms used in the verse of Jeremiah above?

i am not sure why you are asking me this (sorry, density of mind without caffeine lol). i can offer to you an explanation of the verse and what it means to us Hebrews.

oy, this is going to feel odd... Ish and Ishah pertain to a man and woman already united together in marriage. as you have pointed out concerning the slang of Gaver and N'kevah, these pertain to those still in a courting stage, having yet to pierce and be pierced, in other words, being united as one flesh <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/blush.gif" alt="" title="Blush" /><!-- s --> Adam, saying "this is flesh of my flesh...etc" has pointed out that they are already united as one flesh since it is that she was taken from Ish. she was called Ishah because she causes the Ish to go "AAAHHHH!" ~ sorry, bad humor <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->

[font=Levistam (V1.1)]rbg bbwst hbqn cr0b h4dx hwhy 0rb yk[/font] (there doesn't seem to be a Tzadei Sophit for the Levistam, but iz okay <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s --> )

it has been taught that, figuratively, this refers to a new disposition taken in the courting of potential spouses, for the root Savav [font=Levistam (V1.1)]bbs[/font] for T'sovev [font=Levistam (V1.1)]bbwst[/font] pertains to surrounding, bordering, encompassing, but in the sense of potentially taking to oneself as in besiegement, even to lead or cause to follow. so instead of the Man (Gaver) initiating things, the Woman (N'kevah) is the one to do so. from an interpretive point of view, this refers to God being pursued by the people in the New Covenant which the context of the chapter refers to.

according to your references, Gaver (Man) pertains to a husband? i'm not sure i understand what it is your getting to, but i am looking forward to a further post on this <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->

something interesting playing with the letters for Ish v'Ishah [font=Levistam (V1.1)]h40w 4y0[/font]

When a couple are united in marriage, and the Holy One is entwined with them, like it is written, a threefold cord is not easily broken, they are called Ish v'Ishah [font=Levistam (V1.1)]h40w 4y0[/font], containing within each a portion of the Holy One [font=Levistam (V1.1)]hwhy[/font], Yod [font=Levistam (V1.1)]y[/font] with Ish, He [font=Levistam (V1.1)]h[/font] with Ishah.
But should the Ishah not follow after her God, she becomes an Esh [font=Levistam (V1.1)]40[/font], Fire, having her portion of the Holy One ([font=Levistam (V1.1)]h[/font]) removed from her, making it Ish v'Esh [font=Levistam (V1.1)]40w 4y0[/font], and so becomes a destruction to the Ish. and should the Ish follow not, he becomes Esh [font=Levistam (V1.1)]40[/font], having his portion of the Holy One ([font=Levistam (V1.1)]y[/font]) removed from him, making it Esh v'Ishah [font=Levistam (V1.1)]h40w 40[/font], and so becomes a destruction to the Ishah.

John