09-25-2008, 02:41 PM
Shlama Akhi Ryan,
My beliefs are different from Moshe K and certainly from Avi ben Mordechai. I don't emphasize Two House stuff AT ALL. It is not a salvation specific matter nor an Aramaic Primacy matter. It is a school of thought about trends in Scripture and there have been extremes on all sides about this.
If you have a question about what I believe, just ask. For now, just know that Mari is NOT the Restoration Scriptures, and there is no running Two House commentary in it. It is true that before Moshe K's fall I supported RSTNE but I did so within some pretty specific criteria. The fact is I have worked with so called One House and Two House Messianics for more than 20 years.
Obviously also, I am against anything that denies the spritual inheritance of my people and transfers it to Europe or anywhere else. Armstrong was a heretic of the highest order, and I have said that for years. It should also go without saying that all forms of anti-semitism are repudiated by me in the strongest possible terms, regardless as to how carefully people try to wrap it in theological garb.
In regards to my "two house" leanings specifically, it is simply a scriptural fact that Ephraim went away to the nations and that at some point will come back into fellowship, bring Gentiles along with them and sometimes being unaware of their lineage. I shouldn't have to give you the hundreds of citations on the matter. Of course Jeremiah 31, Isaiah 66 and Ezekiel 36 and 37 speak to this. I believe the Prodigal Son is a very strong teaching on this, along with "dogs and pigs" that Y'shua and others reference often. In the parable, the father is YHWH, the older angry son who is always with him is Judah and the wayward son who lived with pigs but came home is Ephraim. The conflict that the brothers have and the father's answer speaks volumes as to the relationship of the houses of Israel, but in the end we will have ONE HOUSE OF ISRAEL that inlcudes all nations in restoration. That's right. "two house" is a minomer. There may be two houses now, but what counts is that they will be ONE HOUSE as the nations ask Messiah, the head of Judah, to come and follow him (Zechariah 8:23).
And I will tell you something else. The New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 is ONLY with Israel, Judah and those who join to them--meanng all of you too, but you come in as part of the COMMONWEALTH of Israel (Ephesians 2:11-16). But lest you think this is a preaching agenda of Mari, IT IS NOT. HONESTLY, I DON'T CARE IF PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS OR NOT. IT MAKES NO IMPACT ON WHAT I TRY TO DO AT ALL.
You see Ryan, this is what the bottom line is for me. Forget two house, one house, blah blah. Focus instead on what I call ONE DOOR, DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY HOUSES. This is what I mean.
1) If you are an Orthodox Jew, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
2) If you are an Ephraimite, returning Israelite, etc, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
3) If you are a "pure Gentile", your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
4) If you are from polytheistic traditons, neo paganism, new age-ism, etc., your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
5) If you are from this house, that house or no house at all, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
6) If you are a secular humanist, and atheist, a communist or from any political scenario that subverts faith, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
7) If you are a Hebraic Roots Christian, a sincere student of the Word and its culture while staying in mainline churches, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
<!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> If you are Protestant, Catholic, Eastern/Western Orthodox, "heterodox", Ebionite, Nazarene, COE, SOC or any other acronym that may apply, your answer is:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
There is ONE TORAH for Jew and for foreigner. We can argue all day as to what that Torah is, how it applies, etc., but such is NOT for me to do here. But if you think Mari is a "two house document" you are quite honestly very very wrong. Baruch is not a two houser at all, nor is Shali, and to the extent that I have co-opted a very limited understanding on that subject, it has been an opinion that has no bearing on core issues.
In short, this is not an issue that I have thought strongly enough to divide people on. If we want to talk about the real Shabbat, the moedim being relevant, Godhead, those are important. But as for the rest, to paraphrase Billy Joel:
"Two house, one house, even with an old louse it's still just the Word to me."
This is now the fourth time I think in 2 months that people have made assumptions about my beliefs that 1) are wrong or at least oversimplified versions thereof, and 2) are made without even bothering to ask me.
And this topic, of all of them, could not be less relevant to what I try to do. I don't care what house or no house at all someone is. My answer for their salvation is the same:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
My beliefs are different from Moshe K and certainly from Avi ben Mordechai. I don't emphasize Two House stuff AT ALL. It is not a salvation specific matter nor an Aramaic Primacy matter. It is a school of thought about trends in Scripture and there have been extremes on all sides about this.
If you have a question about what I believe, just ask. For now, just know that Mari is NOT the Restoration Scriptures, and there is no running Two House commentary in it. It is true that before Moshe K's fall I supported RSTNE but I did so within some pretty specific criteria. The fact is I have worked with so called One House and Two House Messianics for more than 20 years.
Obviously also, I am against anything that denies the spritual inheritance of my people and transfers it to Europe or anywhere else. Armstrong was a heretic of the highest order, and I have said that for years. It should also go without saying that all forms of anti-semitism are repudiated by me in the strongest possible terms, regardless as to how carefully people try to wrap it in theological garb.
In regards to my "two house" leanings specifically, it is simply a scriptural fact that Ephraim went away to the nations and that at some point will come back into fellowship, bring Gentiles along with them and sometimes being unaware of their lineage. I shouldn't have to give you the hundreds of citations on the matter. Of course Jeremiah 31, Isaiah 66 and Ezekiel 36 and 37 speak to this. I believe the Prodigal Son is a very strong teaching on this, along with "dogs and pigs" that Y'shua and others reference often. In the parable, the father is YHWH, the older angry son who is always with him is Judah and the wayward son who lived with pigs but came home is Ephraim. The conflict that the brothers have and the father's answer speaks volumes as to the relationship of the houses of Israel, but in the end we will have ONE HOUSE OF ISRAEL that inlcudes all nations in restoration. That's right. "two house" is a minomer. There may be two houses now, but what counts is that they will be ONE HOUSE as the nations ask Messiah, the head of Judah, to come and follow him (Zechariah 8:23).
And I will tell you something else. The New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 is ONLY with Israel, Judah and those who join to them--meanng all of you too, but you come in as part of the COMMONWEALTH of Israel (Ephesians 2:11-16). But lest you think this is a preaching agenda of Mari, IT IS NOT. HONESTLY, I DON'T CARE IF PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS OR NOT. IT MAKES NO IMPACT ON WHAT I TRY TO DO AT ALL.
You see Ryan, this is what the bottom line is for me. Forget two house, one house, blah blah. Focus instead on what I call ONE DOOR, DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY HOUSES. This is what I mean.
1) If you are an Orthodox Jew, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
2) If you are an Ephraimite, returning Israelite, etc, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
3) If you are a "pure Gentile", your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
4) If you are from polytheistic traditons, neo paganism, new age-ism, etc., your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
5) If you are from this house, that house or no house at all, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
6) If you are a secular humanist, and atheist, a communist or from any political scenario that subverts faith, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
7) If you are a Hebraic Roots Christian, a sincere student of the Word and its culture while staying in mainline churches, your answer is to:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
<!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> If you are Protestant, Catholic, Eastern/Western Orthodox, "heterodox", Ebionite, Nazarene, COE, SOC or any other acronym that may apply, your answer is:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
There is ONE TORAH for Jew and for foreigner. We can argue all day as to what that Torah is, how it applies, etc., but such is NOT for me to do here. But if you think Mari is a "two house document" you are quite honestly very very wrong. Baruch is not a two houser at all, nor is Shali, and to the extent that I have co-opted a very limited understanding on that subject, it has been an opinion that has no bearing on core issues.
In short, this is not an issue that I have thought strongly enough to divide people on. If we want to talk about the real Shabbat, the moedim being relevant, Godhead, those are important. But as for the rest, to paraphrase Billy Joel:
"Two house, one house, even with an old louse it's still just the Word to me."
This is now the fourth time I think in 2 months that people have made assumptions about my beliefs that 1) are wrong or at least oversimplified versions thereof, and 2) are made without even bothering to ask me.
And this topic, of all of them, could not be less relevant to what I try to do. I don't care what house or no house at all someone is. My answer for their salvation is the same:
Embrace Y'shua as Messiah and follow the Torah/NT.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth