09-25-2003, 10:39 PM
Shlama,
Now, if there's a 'Netzari'/Nazarene commentary on Isaiah, that I would love to see. Never heard of it.
Back to the 'women' thing. In my opinion, regardless of authorship, both 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy are response letters. They are specific instructions to a specific community addressing real issues at a specific point in time. The enforcement of the hierarchical structure was perhaps due to the presence of a 'Jezebel' type of spirit amongst some of the women, and/or those who insisted on celibacy "forbidding to marry", etc...
When I impose the rabbinic concept of 'halakhah' on these instructions/commands, I see that this is likely an authoritative decision for the particular communities addressed. My point in referencing the Tanakh was definitely not to make void or deny other passages (e.i., ref. to Adam/Eve), but to try to show that I view the application of Torah to be situation-specific.
For example, look at the following passage from Genesis (Modified KJV for convenient cut & paste)
21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, "Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."
11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12 And Elohim said unto Abraham, "Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called."
(Cf. Galatians 4:30, where Paul himself quotes these words of Sarah!)
The Hebrew phrase for 'hearken unto voice' is lwqb vmH , and means 'to obey'. It is used throughout the Tanakh for Israel's duty to obey God's commandments. Yeshua even uses it - "My sheep hear my voice".
In this passage, Elohim commands Avraham to obey his wife. This does not mean he is no longer head of the household, spiritual authority, etc..., but that in this particular instance, this particular time, he wasn't going to call the shots.
The KJV, while handy for me to cut-and-paste, is not actually accurate in this point either. The Hebrew reads:
hlqb vmH hrW ??yl' rm't rH' lk
Literally, it translates "Everything that Sarah will say to you, listen to her voice (obey her)"
So, to cap off my final post on this particular women-and-authority issue (it's been pretty long, eh?), I will just express my belief that every situation of our lives needs to be Spirit-led. This leading is the weightiest matter of the Torah, over-rulling all other matters. It is my opinion that this is what Paul desired - spiritual order. He knew that rukha d'qoodsha (the Holy Spirit) was not a bringer of confusion, but rather holiness, humilty (a servant's heart), order, and comfort. May this same Spirit guide each of us every moment of our lives!
Shlama w'taybootha,
Rob
Now, if there's a 'Netzari'/Nazarene commentary on Isaiah, that I would love to see. Never heard of it.
Back to the 'women' thing. In my opinion, regardless of authorship, both 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy are response letters. They are specific instructions to a specific community addressing real issues at a specific point in time. The enforcement of the hierarchical structure was perhaps due to the presence of a 'Jezebel' type of spirit amongst some of the women, and/or those who insisted on celibacy "forbidding to marry", etc...
When I impose the rabbinic concept of 'halakhah' on these instructions/commands, I see that this is likely an authoritative decision for the particular communities addressed. My point in referencing the Tanakh was definitely not to make void or deny other passages (e.i., ref. to Adam/Eve), but to try to show that I view the application of Torah to be situation-specific.
For example, look at the following passage from Genesis (Modified KJV for convenient cut & paste)
21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, "Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."
11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12 And Elohim said unto Abraham, "Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called."
(Cf. Galatians 4:30, where Paul himself quotes these words of Sarah!)
The Hebrew phrase for 'hearken unto voice' is lwqb vmH , and means 'to obey'. It is used throughout the Tanakh for Israel's duty to obey God's commandments. Yeshua even uses it - "My sheep hear my voice".
In this passage, Elohim commands Avraham to obey his wife. This does not mean he is no longer head of the household, spiritual authority, etc..., but that in this particular instance, this particular time, he wasn't going to call the shots.
The KJV, while handy for me to cut-and-paste, is not actually accurate in this point either. The Hebrew reads:
hlqb vmH hrW ??yl' rm't rH' lk
Literally, it translates "Everything that Sarah will say to you, listen to her voice (obey her)"
So, to cap off my final post on this particular women-and-authority issue (it's been pretty long, eh?), I will just express my belief that every situation of our lives needs to be Spirit-led. This leading is the weightiest matter of the Torah, over-rulling all other matters. It is my opinion that this is what Paul desired - spiritual order. He knew that rukha d'qoodsha (the Holy Spirit) was not a bringer of confusion, but rather holiness, humilty (a servant's heart), order, and comfort. May this same Spirit guide each of us every moment of our lives!
Shlama w'taybootha,
Rob
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